Lurker > SKARDAVNELNATE

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In a debate persuasive arguments are given to counter an opponents position.
So where are yours?

LinkPizza posted...

Heres post #83 I bolded it for you

And here is post #109 where I asked for it again

Neither of those are the post I responded to, are they?
We moved on from that to you denying that anyone was boycotting for that reason, and now I have given you a clip of people discussing that reason.

LinkPizza posted...

But this also isnt what we asked for. You said the VP said they wanted to market to kids. Where is the proof of that?

Is the omniconsciousness starting to forget which role it's playing?
You, LinkPizza, did not ask me for that. You asked me for 'Where have you seen this boycott about selling beer to children?'

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That is what LinkPizza did. No one wants to deny trans people their rights. That is an easier argument to defeat because no one holds that position.

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Strawman - an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Gee, that's exactly what I said LinkPizza was doing.

LinkPizza posted...

The only people Ive seen arguing are the ones mad about LGBTQ+ rights

You're straw-manning the issue by making a discussion on 'what the best treatment for them is' about 'denying them their rights' instead. From what I've seen they take a position on that as well. But that is not their only position.

Conveniently, here's Tim Pool talking about both subjects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjnG9N3E7as

ConfusedTorchic posted...

no one is marketing this to children, full stop.

That is the interpretation I have heard in discussions around this subject.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

provide proof of this beer being marketed to children or shut the fuck up about it and accept that you're wrong.

If the VPs own words don't persuade you I don't know what will. I don't have access to Dylan Mulvaney's viewer demographics. And thus far neither does anyone arguing that it isn't largely under the legal age for buying alcohol.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

we've established that their target demographic is frat houses, while their actual demographic males in their mid 30's.

You said that who is buying the beer doesn't matter. The demographic they're targeting is what matters. The mid 30s demographic doesn't fit with the "fratty" image. You're intentionally ignoring part of the information to make your argument.

adjl posted...

The existence of a boycott is not evidence that your understanding of why the boycott is happening is correct.

My understanding of why the boycott is happening in consistent with discussions I've seen surrounding the boycott.

adjl posted...

The first post in the topic unambiguously proves that the outrage is rooted in transphobia ("doesn't know which bathroom to use" is overtly transphobic rhetoric, as anyone with a modicum of understanding of the situation can tell you)

Wrong, they are using trans issues as a marketing gimmick but that does not mean the boycott is over trans issues any more than it means the boycott is about introduce a competing beer. Nor is the mention of bathrooms transphobia. One group thinks bathrooms are for a biological function. Another group thinks bathrooms are divided along social behaviors. It's a different perspective. Having a different perspective from someone is not a form of bigotry.

LinkPizza posted...

From what Ive seen, no one is boycotting the alcohol because they think its selling to kids.

From what I've seen, that is what they think.

adjl posted...

He's pretty unambiguously demonstrated that he only believed that because he misunderstood the marketing strategy.

I acknowledged that another interpretation was possible. I pointed out how your interpretation didn't connect with all of the information available. I am still under the impression that my interpretation is correct.

Be consistent. Shananagainz made a claim and I challenged it. You say the burden of proof is on me for making a claim. Demand that Shananagainz prove their claim.

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I don't see you saying any of this to Shananagainz.

LinkPizza posted...

Youre the one making a claim, though

My claim was that this is how people perceive it. You want proof for that? There's a boycott going on.

LinkPizza posted...

in this case, the burden of proof lies with you

Shananagainz posted...

Imagine being upset about the fact that you drink the same beverage as trans people lol

Doesn't the burden of proof lie with Shananagainz to prove people are upset about a trans person drinking beer. That's the claim that I challenged.

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Like your attempt wasn't.

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You didn't prove anything either.

adjl posted...

frat bro subculture tends to lean towards homophobia, toxic masculinity, misogyny, and other things that generally are not consistent with the LGBTQ Pride movement

It sounds like Budweiser picked a spokesperson who has no overlap with who they perceive to be their customer base, and the customer base this person would draw in is unclear at best.

adjl posted...

This rebranding effort aims to capture them.

And you think Dylan Mulvaney helps Budweiser to do that? We have three data points to work with. I explained how I think those data points fit together. I follow what your saying when only looking at one or two of them and see how that conclusion can be drawn. But I don't see that when looking at all three of them.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

...

I think I missed your post while responding earlier. I'm not sure what point you're making. How does the largest group of people who were buying the beer being in their 30s connect with the "fratty" image the VP mentioned the beer had. Build that bridge for me because I'm not getting there on my own.

Then you say their current buyer demographic is not relevant in this situation. So it didn't matter that the largest group of people who were buying the beer were in their 30s? Why bring it up in that case? I actually agree with about that. It seems to me that if they wanted to appeal to the college age early 20s demographic they would play into the image they have and want to be seen as a beer popular with fraternities.

adjl posted...

So... "As it stands now, the only young drinkers drinking Bud Light are frat bros, and we need to attract a wider demographic in that age bracket to sustain the brand." Not "We're marketing to children,"

Okay, you've got a different interpretation. More young drinkers not drinkers who are more young.
But that raises the same issue. The young drinkers they want more of are the ones entering college and encountering fraternities. How is dissociating the beer from that image going to get more of that demographic drinking it?
I just don't think this interpretation fits with with the other things the VP had said.
Also, why use Dylan Mulvaney to change their image. That demographic isn't who Dylan Mulvaney appeals to.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/7/8/AAC4lPAAEYj6.jpg

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I'm satisfied with reasoning and discussion. You're the one demanding proof for everything. So why don't you go find some to disprove my reasoning?

Jen0125 posted...

No you said initially that only children know her. Do you think only children use tiktok? That's some boomer shit.

What percentage of viewers have to be under drinking age for it to be considered marketing to them?

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I take it you didn't find any either.

LinkPizza posted...

She said, if we do not attract young drinkers But that doesnt mean younger than the frat crowd. That just means young drinkers in general. Which would be like 21 year olds

Yeah. Younger drinkers than the ones they currently attract. And they currently attract the frat crowd. So younger than the frat crowd. And if the frat crowd already means 21, younger than 21. Which matches what I said earlier about the viewer demographic.

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I did explain the reasoning. I never said the reasoning was concrete proof. In fact, I invited you disprove the reasoning if you could find concrete proof.

Jen0125 posted...

Why would only children know who Dylan Mulvaney is? I know who she is and I'm not a child.

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I assume you're both being fallacious since I explained the reasoning.

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Literally gave you the answer Skar. There's ignorance, and then there's willful ignorance.

You did? Do you mean this...

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Saying they want to pivot away from the frat crowd and market to other college-aged demos doesn't mean they want to market to children.

The Budweiser VP never said they want to pivot away from the frat crowd and market to other college-aged demos. They said they want younger customers than the frat crowd.

MeatiestMeatus posted...

There's more than one demographic at colleges and universities. The frat crowd is one demo.

ConfusedTorchic posted... the average age for a college student in the united states is 24-25.

the legal drinking age is 21.

So 3 year difference between the legal age for buying alcohol and their average age demographic. Less if you interpret Fratty to mean the not as mature lower end of that group.

The Budweiser VP specifically said she wanted younger customers. Since the image they want to leave behind already skews toward the legal age for buying alcohol younger means below the legal age.

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In one of the videos discussing this topic it involved the age demographic of viewers that watch the person on the can. I don't know how they sourced the data in the discussion. I tried to google for 'dylan mulvaney viewer demographic' but didn't come up with any decent results. Maybe you can put this to rest and come up with results that prove the person isn't being watched primarily by children/young adults. The best I can come up with is that the majority of users on Tik Tok are age 16-24.

Assuming Dylan's viewers are in the same proportions as Tik Tok and half of that demographic is under 21 then 30% of people who would have recognized who Dylan Mulvaney is are under drinking age.

Clench281 posted...

I refuse to believe this isn't a sassy grown up theater kid's satire

Agreed. I'm not convinced the boycott is a "trans hate" issue. I think the people that were drawn to the "fratty" image it had are being repelled by the the new "girly" image Budweiser is being associated with now.

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https://nypost.com/2023/04/10/bud-lights-marketing-vp-
was-inspired-to-update-fratty-out-of-touch-branding/

After the host asked Heinerscheid about how her background, perspective, and values impacted the Bud Light brand, the Bud Light vice president said, Im a businesswoman, I had a really clear job to do when I took over Bud Light, and it was This brand is in decline, its been in a decline for a really long time, and if we do not attract young drinkers to come and drink this brand there will be no future for Bud Light.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

how do you read "we want to leave the frat image behind" as "we want to market to children instead"

What age do people generally go to college?

Yellow posted...

Help me out on this one, what about that has to do with the "anti-woke" message?

Nothing. I never referred to an "anti-woke" message.

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I thought all the cans had that person's face now. Can you show me something that proves it was only 6 cans?

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Putting someone's face on a can is marketing. The people who would have known whose face that was prior to becoming famous for being on a can aren't old enough to legally buy beer. So yes, it was marketed to them.

That depends... How much MP does their most powerful spell cost to cast? Now how many times should they be able to cast it without recharging their reserve?

My reaction to Springer - Oh, that makes sense. I should have made that connection sooner.
My reaction to Harrelson - I never would have guessed.

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Yes, that selling to children is what people are upset about. Not whose face they put on the can. The VP of Budweiser said she wanted to leave behind the frat image of the beer and market to younger customers. So... younger than college age.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

weneedwokecigarettes

Are you also planning on selling them to children?

Shananagainz posted...

Imagine being upset about the fact that you drink the same beverage as trans people lol

That's not what people are upset about.

The 2nd one is more visually interesting without being as crowded as the 3rd one.

I'm still using a PS/2 keyboard. In 20 years I haven't had a complaint about it.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/04/05/heres-fbi-glossary-for-flagging-violent-extremism/

I need to see my optimistic about looksmaxxing. I've been having difficulty looking at things.

My father is really redpilled. His blood pressure is dropping dangerously low. Based on this he doesn't have much faith in his doctor.

What do you Chads think?

I think you read it wrong. It's 23 inch Eggs and HDTV Waffles.

shadowsword87 posted...

ChatGPT is the internet distilled you can talk to.

Then why is it not more Freakazoid and less corporate spokesperson?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed-hUoeHcz0

BlackScythe0 posted...

Please put some pants on

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See... This is what I meant by not compelling.

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I don't know what that means in this context. All you had to do was not quote me and this whole exchange would have been avoided.

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You're the one that turned this topic into being about me instead of the original subject.

Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

If someone does what a computer tells them to, they have bigger problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBtX0S2J32Y

BlackScythe0 posted...

You say crazy stuff, you don't prove anything wrong.

If I say my position is X and other person keeps insisting my position is Y how was that not proof of what position I hold?
If I quote passage X from a bill and say this is in response to news story Y how is that not evidence to support that a bill was meant to address a thing that is happening in the world?

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Sounded like you were complaining there.

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You're still paying attention to what I have to say. At the least that means that you want to. As I said originally it's not that difficult to just disregard something you don't want to read.

BlackScythe0 posted...

You have never refuted anything on this forum.

I can think of several examples where I have. One of them is when discussing laws and pointing to incidents that they're attempting to address. I frequently quote specific pasages from the article we're talking about and demonstrate my thought process in regard to it. Occasionally I have to refute what my own position is because that has become the subject of disagreement.

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It's starting to seem like you actually want to read my posts to have something to complain about.

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That's more in line with how other people respond to me. I make references to support my position. Others ignore the point I'm making and substitute it with the position they think I hold, keep telling me I'm wrong, to get off the internet, or to shut up. What they don't do is make an argument that would be compelling

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Those are things I want to read. And I don't complain about things I disagree with, I refute them.

I already find it pretty easy to ignore something I don't want to read.

Regular pokemon...
Control forces that endanger time and space with their mere existence
Only speak their own name
Can be taught tricks after battling to near death, trapping them in a tesseract, and brainwashing them

A normal dog...
About as intelligent as a toddler
Makes sounds other than it's own name
Almost domesticates itself in exchange for leftovers from dinner

A normal dog would be a mythological creature in the world of pokemon.

Yellow posted...

Those are literally all examples of consoles where digital copies did not exist. If you're going to dump Gamecube and higher, you need to mod 90% of the time, and dumping digital games is the same exact process. Best way to read a Wii U game is with a Wii U. There's always going to be an option to dump digital games the same way.

For GameCube there's adapters to access SD cards and you can just buy a disc with homebrew software to utilize them.
I believe for Wii and WiiU you don't need to physically alter the device. I guess installing software is technically modding. But I don't know if you can still access the digital store to get new games after you do that. With a physical copy that's not something to worry about.

Are these random pants you decided to try on?
Have you been wearing one and needed to switch to the other?

Yellow posted...

Same way actually, modding

I have a Retorode 2. PS1 and PS2 games can be read in any PC DVD drive. So no modding involved.

Zareth posted...

You can't, actually. That is a myth.

Some disclaimers. I tried to google for that but for some reason the results are talking about selling a backup copy which is not what I searched for. So getting relevant results is hard.

Also none of the results site a passage from the law to verify what they say about it. So if I'm wrong it's because the law had been interpreted for me rather than making the law available to me.

So here's the top result...
https://legalbeagle.com/12719016-copyright-law-making-personal-copies.html

Within copyright law there is a doctrine of law known as fair use.
...the doctrine provides a defense to copyright infringement.

Copyright law permits you to make one copy of your computer software for the purpose of archiving the software in case it is damaged or lost. In order to make a copy, you must own a valid copy of the software

In addition to making a backup copy of software, it is legal to make a backup copy of a CD or DVD so that you can continue to enjoy the copyrighted material if your original copy fails.

I can still play my Super Metroid cartridge from 29 years ago. How long do servers stay up? How long do eshops last?

I can make a fair use backup of the original media. How well does that work with digital purchases?

chelle posted...

That would be called creating artificial scarcity in order to give people FOMO.

Yes, that fits, but what purpose does that serve? They make a certain number of copies and generate a certain amount of revenue. Or they could make more revenue by selling more copies. Instead they limit their own profits while increasing the profits of scalpers who make it so only those who will pay the most can get a copy. That inflated price doesn't benefit Nintendo.

If they are going to make it smell like lemons I would rather it smell like fresh lemons than rotting lemons.