Lurker > Sheep007

ctesjbuvf posted...

What the hell is it you want from him? He has been here.

I mean, end the day now if you want, I don't really have any issue. Might just help clean up any remaining paranoia about Wallz being town that anyone else has

I would like BCT to show and then we end the day whenever. Maybe early enough to get the next day up and not have a dreadful 36 hour night?

The fact that everyone except BCT has shown up and Wallz has still not been hammered is a pretty solid affirmation of my choice tbh.

wallmasterz posted...

That would require this not being MyLo. Know something we dont?

Pretty simple: if it's MYLO, you almost necessarily have to be on the scumteam from my PoV (if any of Red, Death or BCT is scum, they've played a blinder). If you're a mislynch, it's therefore not MYLO and I will thankfully get the chance to avenge you.

htaeD posted...

Btw what do we think of Ulti's BP claim?
Personally the more I ponder it, the more I feel it only serves to exist as a stopgap for too much killing.

I didn't really stop to consider it beyond being aware that it's in the area of roles Scum likes to claim containing roles that are not vanilla but have little possibility to be proven.

ctesjbuvf posted...

This isn't true lol.

It kinda is. I can't be on a three person scumteam, you can. Wallz is saying with 100% certainty that it's a two person scumteam by voting me.

Rest assured I will rally your good name and bring down Ctes with haste tomorrow should this be a mislynch, Wallz.

I mean, if you think both me and Ctes are Scum, you at least kill Ctes first because if you're wrong and there's a three person team you don't lose on the spot by lynching him. Poor play tbh, I expect better.

(This is me being a little bitch, I do not begrudge you trying to save yourself and I think you've done a solid job. If Isquen hadn't jailed me y'all would probably have won this game)

Gonna put the cards on the table. Don't see anything changing with the time we have left.

##Vote:Wallz
##Vote2: Wallz

I don't actually know the formatting so I hope that this is sufficient.

wallmasterz posted...

I tried to bodyguard Isquen but was roleblocked.

I still am not liking peafs vibes. Peaf, you need to tell us when you plan on using your ability.

This post was before I claimed roleblocked. So Wallz has just claimed that he was roleblocked, and Isquen did not block the claimed bodyguard. Fairly obvious assumption, no?

wallmasterz posted...

FD poured his heart and soul into trying to talk everyone out of his mislynch and his efforts were in vain. I dont mean this as harshly as it sounds but Im not casting my pearls before swine here. Clearly Im getting mislynched. I just want to leave my two cents because Im not sure I care to hang around for postgame.

This community throws the word confirmed around far too loosely. As town we should be double checking and questioning ourselves are we sure theres no other explanation, are we really positive about something not taking knee jerk reactions and holding onto them as gospel truth for an entire game. We should not read posts from some players and not posts from others. We should also not take one unknown as absolute truth and build our entire view of the game around it.

If you have ever heard of the experiment of the rat who could press a button to orgasm, and so he pressed the button repeatedly until he died, I feel like some players here are the rat, and latching onto one little thing and assigning it meaning is pressing the button. You do it until you die. An old boss described some people as often wrong, never uncertain. I dont think anyone here is never uncertain but the sentiment remains.

There are enough people left alive acting in a less than winning fashion. They cant all be scum. Dont care that Ive played about 10 games and some of you have played 10+ years, clearly a simple lesson to be learned here.

Good game scum. Some good individual play here, in some cases tbd. To those who have solved my being scum, I leave you to resume standing around in the Star Wars trash compactor sniffing your own farts.

I mean, I do think it's worth considering all possibilities here. If I wasn't very comfortable reading both Red and Death and their roles backed that up I would be considering it a lot more. As things stand, the evidence in their favour is far too great and if I get the numbers game horribly wrong so be it, I've been wrong before and I definitely will again, and this was a game I replaced into specifically so that it would continue to run, not because I had the time to play up to my own standards.

Anyway, BCT, I am not 100% certain on: I think it'd take something crazy for him to be Scum, but the possibilities are slim. I'll ask you now: who do you think is scum out of BCT, Death, and Red. And why? I can't promise I will agree but I'll certainly listen to anything you have to say.

red13n posted...

I would also wager it is only a 2 man scumteam left, but I could be wrong.

That sounds very underpowered to me, no matter how crazy scum roles are. What makes you think that?

I mean, Death never sounds like he has conviction but he seems pretty sold. I am on the same page as you with solving, we have three scum remaining, and then it's just BCT left to convince.

I'm going to vote in a few hours, before bed. When are you going, Death, so I can vote before you do? I'm not keeping this game going for weeks. At the end of the day it is just going to be trusting that BCT makes the correct choices. Going to emphasise again, that is Wallz, Ctes and Ulti as the scum team.

The only reason I haven't voted to try and end the day already is because I want BCT to be happy the game is solved going forwards. I've said all I need to

Glastrier > Spectrier

ctesjbuvf posted...

I probably worded that badly. No one has been going after you today so what's the point of you stating that?

Because BCT doesn't fully believe me and is clearly still worried about my alignment. Nobody else really needs convincing that I'm town.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Something just feels off about this Wall lynch. It honestly feels like scum is pulling strings. I don't know why, that's just my gut and vibe check. Wall could still be scum and this could be a bus, mind you.

It's worth being healthily paranoid here. I will say that Scum are definitely against Wallz, or at least won't openly advocate for him. He is dead to rights. I'm going to come at this from a different angle:

If I have a double vote, do you agree it confirms me Town today? Else I would have simply coordinated with the rest of the scumteam and hammered - this is a guaranteed win. I don't mind if you disbelieve me, but if I have that doublevote, I have no need to bus.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Please explain how Dumey's role is impacted in any way by a separate town vig. Red, you do the same. The way I read it was that he had immunity when submitting the kill, but not at other points of the night phase. It didn't strike me as "he gets immunity because he murdered somebody" but rather "he gets immunity when he's murdering somebody." So he could make a night kill but be killed after it.

There are no non-scum killing roles, aside from Red (Wallz has also claimed such, at a very convenient time). But there has to be a reason why Dumey could avoid being shot, and that reason is almost definitely Red. Otherwise Dumey's ability to avoid getting killed at night when killing is irrelevant, and doesn't need to be in the game.

Hey Red, I think the only remaining point of contention is whether you think BCT is Town? I am assuming you also do but just wanna make sure.

If so, I'm happy to go ahead and confirm my doublevote once he's back and also agrees with the final two lynches after today. I do not see a world where you and Death both act so closely to your Town games and have this level of role confirmation while being Scum, and I don't want to make this endgame last over a week when the game is essentially solved.

If you're Town and think Wallz is Town, Ctes, you're arguing for an Ulti/BCT/[Red/Death] scumteam. Sell me on one of Red or Death being Scum before you even begin arguing that Wallz is Town.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Why would scum Wallz decide to change his BG claim today?

What does he have to lose?

1) I Couldnt Love You More
2) Cherish the Day
3) Feel No Pain
4) No Ordinary Love
5) Mermaid
6) Kiss of Life
7) Bullet Proof Soul
8) Like A Tattoo
9) Pearls I dont feel like this deserves to be bottom, but its a different vibe to the rest of the album that I dont enjoy quite so much in this context.

Also, for a far simpler explanation which I entirely forgot up til this point: BCT busdrove with a player (IGCD) who was roleblocked by Scum that night, not Isquen. So unless you think that the very, very silly sequence of events that is Scum driving to get themselves roleblocked (rather than, y'know, actually using the roleblock to possibly stop one of the unclaimed players getting an action off) happened, BCT is likely just Town.

I think at this stage I am ready to doublevote Wallz and get this show on the road, but I want to have Red check in first.

BCT, do you take major issue with voting in order, Wallz > Ctes > Ulti, for the next three days? I am almost certain you're Town at this point but I really don't want to push forwards too quickly if you aren't fully onboard because I think you're the Town player that's certain to make it to F3. Please ask if you're unclear on any of my logic.

UltimaterializerX posted... It doesnt, no. And when Sheep and ctes inevitably both claim not-vanilla itll mean BCT is the only vanilla claim. I know the guy is unlucky but being the only vanilla in an 18 player game is impossible.

Or to flip the chessboard around if he were town one of them would have claimed vanilla by now.

UltimaterializerX posted...
At a glance, BCT makes the most sense to lynch. But I have one major hangup there if BCT is scum, then this game has no vanillas. For this to be the case and for him to fake claim vanilla, it would have to mean two things that I cant believe together. One, Blade would have to make a game with no vanillas and not tell scum. Two and/or, Blade told scum and BCT fake claimed vanilla anyway. These two lines dont go together.

Occulams Razor, BCT is town.

Some examples of what my prior post was talking about. I don't see these happening with an Ulti/BCT scumteam that genuinely thinks there's no Vanillas.

I will also add that Ulti was consistent in being convinced FD was Town, because I considered that as potentially scummy, but I think it's probably a null tell. With certain players I would say that's borderline knowing too much since as we discussed yesterday, the other possibilities seemed far less likely on paper, but Ulti very much plays based on vibes.

I kinda hate to do shitty role meta but at the same time I think it's relevant to work out how this game has developed.

We have two vanilla claims, two confirmed-to-exist power roles, and three unconfirmable weak power roles (now one stronger unconfirmable power role with Wallz new claim).

Bear in mind that between BCT claiming and Ctes (in particular) claiming, it became "evident" that there were no more Vanilla claims. Also note that Ulti was very specifically fishing for more Vanilla claims D3 shortly after I replaced in, with his pressure on BCT. I think that unpairs the two, honestly. Scum at that stage thinks this is a vanillaless game if Ulti and BCT are on the same team, barring the very unlikely scenario where all of myself, Lea and Ctes are Vanilla and Town has no strong scanner.

So, that's essentially how I've gotten to the unpaired BCT/Ulti conclusion, and the conclusion that Wallz/Ctes are probably scum regardless.

htaeD posted...

We could just wait until a lynch is decided anyway.
Though on the other hand I can understand if people want to confirm the doublevote's existence first

This is also fine, if people believe me. Not like there needs to be a rush, just thought it might be good to rid y'all of any lingering paranoia over myself.

I would at this stage like to know where everyone stands and their top preferences to vote today? I'm currently at Wallz > Ctes >> Ulti >> BCT

I'm currently leaning towards Ulti being scum over BCT, partially because I think he overplayed his hand a little D3, when fishing for my role. Scum really needed to know what I was ASAP with investigation still on the board. I want to go back and see how much I defended Ctes D3, because I thought he was likely investigation. Should he be on a team with Ulti, it'd be very easy to convincingly work their way into getting my claim if I had made it obvious that I would claim when Ctes did.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Yeah I admit I was wrong. That was based on Dumey's flip, which...

...wait a minute. Wall is town. Wall serves as a bomb bodyguard! That's why Dumey's immunity while murdering is relevant.

So Lea wasn't the one who could do something to scum. Wall is!

(I still think you're town too, Red)

Remember, if you think both Red and Wallz are town, then at least one of myself and Death needs to be Scum, which is a very strange scenario imo. Dumey's immunity while murdering is already relevant because of Red (and I'm fairly sure it prevented him being jailkept too, no?)

I really do not want to unvote once I have doublevoted, mostly because the doublevote is good insurance for if there's a Town player that's wrong or unconvinced. Not much point in having confirmed myself if we lose anyway. I'm happy to have it directed by you/Red as a compromise?

htaeD posted...

Anyway Sheep you can also vote 2 different players at the same time if you want to prove you still have it.

I'll probably prove I still have it by doublevoting the same player? I should vote before anyone else does, I just want to be sure of our choice first because I can only use it once full stop, not just for one day.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Scum inventor is a role thats been used here before and it wouldnt surprise me this game. You are confirmed town. He is not. Assuming confirmed town when it hasnt actually happened yet is blatantly how towns use games.

Oh yeah, it's for sure a possibility, I just think it's very unlikely. And I consider myself able to read Death well enough that I'm confident he's town entirely removed from that. Then if we get into role meta...

Sheep007 posted...

Giving a scummate a doublevote that is usable in LYLO is busted (and, again, would result in the game having ended). The only possibility where either of us isn't Town right now is that Death is scum and either has a role that benefits from my using the ability, or made an utterly catastrophic mistake in forgetting to block me last night. I think both are highly unlikely.

Oh. I am tired and misread who it was aimed at, very badly.

Red cannot be on a scumteam with SBell because he shot SBell and nobody else could have. Pretty simple, no?

wallmasterz posted...

Why could they not coexist on a scum team?

Giving a scummate a doublevote that is usable in LYLO is busted (and, again, would result in the game having ended). The only possibility where either of us isn't Town right now is that Death is scum and either has a role that benefits from my using the ability, or made an utterly catastrophic mistake in forgetting to block me last night. I think both are highly unlikely.

I still stand by my FD vote >_> we didn't hit scum directly but without the modkills yesterday the game would have been all but solved.

wallmasterz posted...

So you claim to have been jailkept, but you supposedly kept your ability, and it looks like you used it here despite claiming to be jailkept?

The second vote wouldn't show up on votals, if we got official ones. I was doing it to prove to Death that I was truthful about having no doublevote yesterday. Alas, day ended before he showed up.

Also, I am currently thinking BCT, Death and Red as Town. Wallz and Ctes basically have to be scum at this stage and I expect Ulti is more likely scum than BCT but I'm not certain.

To everyone still alive (but particularly Death and Red). I am confirmed Town: I have a doublevote (Death gave it to me and it is active today, for one time only - he can confirm that he gifted it to me and I assume the exact mechanics?). It was, in fact, not used up when I was roleblocked.

If I were scum, I could end the day literally any time I so choose, and the game would already be over, so there would be no reason to disclose this to you. I suggest everyone solving do so with the knowledge I am Town, because the game is already over if I am not (and I would be tucked up snug in bed rather than wasting my time getting this info out there).

Well, revealing to scum that I did have an action is probably not the worst thing that I coulda done while five minutes out of REM sleep but it was still silly given there's no other good block targets if IGCD dies tonight and Wallz is scum. No more mafia in the middle of the night.

Also if Wallz is town and didn't bg Isquen last night he is a madman so I would be inclined to kill him regardless of whatever IGCD has said and I am yet to read.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Then let me ask you this: How do you know it was Isquen who RB'd (jailkept) you and not scum?

I assume jailkeeping the vanilla claim to try and stop them killing is more likely than scum thinking I was power?

Although actually, assuming Wallz is scum I was probably the scum target last night.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

No I think that's implying that he got to see his own visitors or something?

Oh, the ability was definitely blocked but we should probably kill wallz too, yes. Just wanted to get it out there so Isquen can confirm the interaction. I assume it's used up now?

Death, why the hell did you pick me of all people to give that to? I was half-considering not using it because I felt a weird choice to gift and thought it might be a trap role.

I woke up to pee and remembered this might be up. I used an ability granted to me by Death last night. Isquen can confirm in DTC that he jailkept me.

##Vote: Wallz
##Vote: Wallz
##Unvote

XIII_Rocks posted...

Also "design" to me covers more than just visuals anyway. I think like, Shedinja has great "design" because of the way it mirrors irl cicadas. It was "designed" to mirror that. That's really clever and interesting to me. To look at, meh.

Yeah, totally agreed on this. Most of my least favourite Pokmon are uninspired stuff like megas where it's just "how many spikes can we put on something that everyone agrees looked cool before?" or the awful Gen 1 trend of giving things extra (specifically, three) heads when they evolved and changing almost nothing else. Looking at you in particular Dugtrio. Although Magneton kinda gets a pass because it's literally a bunch of magnets who can't unstick which is dumb and good.

Nahhhh, Barraskewda is one of the best mons from Gen 8. Probably top five. Y'all are heathens, although I shoulda expected this after Arrokuda was almost bottom

Also, I mostly rank based on design, but also how fun something is to use competitively (not whether it's good, just if I like how it plays). Something that's bland and also doesn't feel interesting in a competitive format is never gonna be high for me, and something that looks goofy but is stupidly fun to use is almost always gonna do well.

I think my favourites are all animal (or I guess alternate takes on mythical creatures), but there's not a lot of dreadful or completely boring objectmons in turn (aside from the Klink line which sucks). There's a lot of animal lines that are just dull.

I am a cat person these days, but cat Pokemon suck (particularly if they're fully evolved) and Perrserker is no exception.

4+1 feels pathetic for scum and the roles so far do not seem brokenly powerful. I've not done the maths but if you think 5+1 doesn't work then I can't see it being anything other than 5.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Me flipping town does not make Isquen scum. It more likely means that Isquen saved my life or that scum targeted plum.

Please do not commit to a course of action that will result in two consecutive mislynches

Yeah, that's very true that it doesn't make him scum, my bad. I don't want to lynch Isquen even if you do flip Town (I think he's the third towniest player in the game right now, tbh), I was trying to convey that the nature of the interaction needs to be confirmed soon in order to stop days going stagnant as all hell.

I used to loathe Regidrago, was one of my least favourite designs ever when it was first revealed. Now I hate it less, but it's just in the average lame modern legendary category, rather than the abomination category. Gigas is also lame but the Gen 3 ones are kinda clean as legendaries go.

I'm done for today, not 100% certain on FD, but I am confident enough to be happy leaving it there. If you're having understandable doubts, remember, Red is not Mafia, Death is almost definitely Town, this is the most convincing explanation for the single kill night, and we need to resolve FD/Isquen one way or another ASAP.

UltimaterializerX posted...

##Vote: Red

Assuming we have an SK and it's 5+1, who left could be on the scumteam? You've had a lot of people down as Town in recent posts so I really want to know what your PoE looks like.

skulltrumpets posted...

Regidrago's concept is great. Its design is kind of funky, but I feel like I'm just overall soft on this legendary line because the concept of representing different time periods is really cool.

I can't believe that I hadn't noticed that in almost two decades of Regxistance.

UltimaterializerX posted...

He once modkilled himself when I put random bomb in a game. Any random roles from him would be designed incredibly weak, and ctes would not know any of this beforehand because this stuff predates him joining our games by nearly a decade.

Not a chance of me voting based on this but I'll keep it in mind.

I'm off for good in ~30 mins and I'll be here sporadically til then. Anyone has a question for me, get it in now or forever hold your peace.