LogFAQs > #986020478

MY POINT EXACTLY. That celebrated story was all about Kraven dying, and wanting to achieve everything left to do. When he did it, he shot himself, because he didn't want to live anymore.

Really? Last I checked that story is still well regarded and people demanded more kraven immediately after because he was a great villain. Crazy how that works. People want more of soemrhing when they like it.

Not even you believe no more stories could be told with kraven after KLH. And expecting oncoming writers to have am ever decreasing pool of characters they can use because one writer who didn't even create the character gets to determine the characters fate for all forthcoming writers is a frigfin terrible idea.

Death doesn't have to be permanent to have meaning. Even manga understands this, because manga is written by actual writers, and all writers understand this. Gokus died a bunch of times. No one says those didn't mean anything. Naruto died. Vader died. Until they didnt. This is an arbitrary non argument. Death in fiction is a narrative device same as anything else is. It is not like real death, that removes all futuree fate from its victim. It is a tool, a force to be wielded by the pen of the writer. Just like life.

LightSnake posted...

Good changes are good, bad changes are bad. Magneto being changed to be a Holocaust survivor from a one note discount Doctor Doom? Good! Marvel retconning Wanda and Pietro to not be his kids? Bad!

WHY is that bad tho? It's your criteria that is arbitrary and I don't even think you have a solid foundation for it. The purpose of the characters CHANGED and that necessitated their story CHANGING Same as magneto. He was CHANGED not jsut because but because with the CHANGE of his narrative role as an opposing view of the oppressed, his origin was CHANGED to give this new role more weight. Pietro and Wanda debuted as acolyte and pawns of magneto with little beyond that... until a new writer saw fit to CHANGE them and their allegiance to one of good; conflicted morality.

Under your philosophy, they - and magneto, would be stuck, imprisoned by the whims of stan and Jack books that no one even read at first. Its a perspective that endlessly falls under ifs own weight.

This reads like a DC press release. IT's painfully dishonest.

Everyone acknowledges Barbara's paralysis was, indeed, a "fridging." What you are ignoring is what other writers did to fix that and indeed, showed that being paralyzed did not "lessen" Barbara, but she made her life work with her disability and became a much greater hero than she ever was as Batgirl to provide incredible disability rep that was praised by fans and disability groups.

But because the corporate line was to undo this, you are desperate to find ways to defend it. You even refer to being disabled as a "permanent stain on the character," ignoring the joy and strength Oracle gave disabled fans and the pain that removing it caused them.

And what of the fans who liked her as f****ing Batgirl? You know, how she was created ? F*** them right? Sucks to be them, THIS CHANGE you can allow! Magneto gotta be pietro and wandas bio dad or we riot tho. You can't even see the double standard your employing.

It was never that she became disabled that was a stain. Its the circumstances in which it happened, and the writers feeling beholden to a character development that was the branchild of someone who didn't give af about the character. Imagine if Carol danvers retired from being ms marvel and became a social worker or politician after the brainwash baby story line and then Carol fans had to hear from people how "she's so empowering now that after being [mind abused] by the supervillain she kept up the fight to help people" meanwhile bruce gets his spine snapped like a twig and comes back good as new. Completely indedensible position. It's nice they made the best of what they had but they really could have just made her oracle AND batgirl, like they do now. Perhaps its a sign of CHANGING perspectives on female superheroes and how often they end up in babs position, and maybe it was time to give the character back her agency rather than making her entire existence irrevocably changed by a vaguely misogynistic British wizard?

This is just incoherent babble.

Oh Lightsnake. Youre a lawyer. You can read that sentence. I know you can.

Barbara Gordon kicked ass even in a wheelchair and had to fight multiple times. But good of you to take the stance "disabled rep isn't important."

Good thing for Ostrander and Yates!

Oh, now we care about REALISM.

We care about consistency. You can have the consistency or you can have the narrative weight. You can't shirk both. And you, you specifically.... cannot ignore that babs continuing to remain in the wheelchair could very well he just as muchha byproduct of the sexism of the time rather than a creative character decision. Lord knows it wouldn't have been Robin turned into a paraplegic permanently. Or, if they did wanna do that, they'd at least let the fans vote on it. Lol

Lmao, this is just a prime example of DC's shitty writing. "She's still Oracle! REALLY!"
Disabled fans: hey, uh, missing the point. We liked seeing ourselves represented. A prominent hero crippled in an act of horrible violence and had to adjust to life in a wheelchair really reflected many of our experiences. IT was really great seeing that, but also knowing that despite her disability, Barbara was a vital part of multiple teams who could be mission control and still fight when she needed to. It made us feel seen and-

Literally all of this still applies to her character lmao.

Not only was she still shot by Joker, that was never retconned, but she still in fact retains the Injury from that event. Its just that, she uses the resoruces if her billionaire ally who has cutting age technology to continue helping people in EVERY way she can. Its almost like, her recovery wasn't merely a physical one, but was brilliantly recontextualized to be an emotional one, where as opposed to simply continuing the fight from a wheelchair because she has to, she continues facing the villains head on, overcoming the natural fear that would come as a result of being a woman written by Alan moore!