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Topic	Politics Containment Topic 249: Phase 1 of a scheduled topic series
xp1337 11/21/19 4:32:02 PM #248:	KamikazePotato posted... What do any of these proceedings actually change? As fun as it is watching corruption be called out, Trump isn't being impeached either way and no one in the Fox News camp is going to believe anything that comes out of it. Point of correction: He will almost certainly be impeached. He will just as almost certainly not be removed. I think "what does this change?" depends on what road you want to take here. I don't think that pessimistic take is necessarily invalid. I think it's correct that he won't be removed and his cult of personality, which has consumed nearly all of the Republican party, will just dismiss it all. That's true. However, I think there's a "history will judge us"/moral argument that it's the right thing to do and thus important to do. To do nothing is itself an action and a chilling one. That it will almost certainly not result in removal is itself a damning statement but I don't think there is no value in being able to say and show that "We did everything we could here. There was a failing here but it was not for lack of effort." And then if you just want the completely cold, clinical political take: The worse things get for Trump through these hearings may not change the outcome but it may well increase the price Republicans have to pay to get there. Take Collins and the Maine Senate seat, for example. Her situation has worsened considerably over the past few years, particularly after Kavanaugh. She used to be popular and safe in a seat that would otherwise go blue. By impeaching and sending it to the Senate, she is put in a no-win scenario. She either votes to remove and pisses of her base and risking them not turning out for her or even primarying her, or she votes to acquit in which case she further energizes the opposition to her and without checking state level polling, I think it's safe to say Maine supports impeachment and removal. She's just one example. More Republicans will be put in tough positions, both in the Senate (which is crucial for 2020) and beyond it. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:930490135] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>KamikazePotato posted...</cite> <quote> What do any of these proceedings actually change? As fun as it is watching corruption be called out, Trump isn't being impeached either way and no one in the Fox News camp is going to believe anything that comes out of it.</quote> Point of correction: He will almost certainly be impeached. He will just as almost certainly not be removed. I think "what does this change?" depends on what road you want to take here. I don't think that pessimistic take is necessarily invalid. I think it's correct that he won't be removed and his cult of personality, which has consumed nearly all of the Republican party, will just dismiss it all. That's true. However, I think there's a "history will judge us"/moral argument that it's the right thing to do and thus important to do. To do nothing is itself an action and a chilling one. That it will almost certainly not result in removal is itself a damning statement but I don't think there is no value in being able to say and show that "We did everything we could here. There was a failing here but it was not for lack of effort." And then if you just want the completely cold, clinical political take: The worse things get for Trump through these hearings may not change the outcome but it may well increase the price Republicans have to pay to get there. Take Collins and the Maine Senate seat, for example. Her situation has worsened considerably over the past few years, particularly after Kavanaugh. She used to be popular and safe in a seat that would otherwise go blue. By impeaching and sending it to the Senate, she is put in a no-win scenario. She either votes to remove and pisses of her base and risking them not turning out for her or even primarying her, or she votes to acquit in which case she further energizes the opposition to her and without checking state level polling, I think it's safe to say Maine supports impeachment and removal. She's just one example. More Republicans will be put in tough positions, both in the Senate (which is crucial for 2020) and beyond it. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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