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Topic	A Geektivus For The Rest Of Us
Zeus 04/05/18 2:24:16 AM #375:	ParanoidObsessive posted... I'd say the "grimdark" aspect is the main problem. Batman is very much the brooding, grim vigilante, while Peter is quite possibly one of the most upbeat and cheerful of Marvel's heroes (even in spite of all the shit that happens to him on a regular basis). Their worldviews are almost diametrically opposed. He clearly uses humor to cope, whether he's nervous, afraid, etc. You make him sound a lot more happy-go-lucky than he actually is. ParanoidObsessive posted... This even shows in terms of how they handle their motivating backstory deaths. Batman is a character whose parents' deaths sort of broke him as a functional human being, and left him as an avenging angel who basically has to kick the shit out of crime to assuage his own despair, but Uncle Ben's death acted more as an inspirational moment for Peter, making his crimefighting less of a personal obsession and more a sense of duty (so much so that Peter himself has repeatedly acted as similar motivation to OTHER heroes in the Marvel universe - apparently, just TALKING about his uncle's death and quoting back "With great power etc etc" is one of the most motivational things any young hero can hear in Marvel's world). Other than having a catchphrase, I'm not seeing a lot of disparity. They're both characters with intense survivors guilt over a traumatic family death which gave them a compulsion to fight crime. And both have a pretty intense complex where they can't abandon it because they view themselves as being indispensable to the cause. And, of course, Batman is known for giving pep talks as well. Just about the only people he tries to talk out of heroing (instead of keeping with it) are his would-be sidekicks. ParanoidObsessive posted... In that sense, the ideal pairing for Batman would probably be the Punisher - but the only flaw there being Batman's unwillingness to kill conflicting with the Punisher's entire MO. But a Batman who is willing to kill or a Punisher who is smarter (basically Frank and Microchip combined into a single person) and willing to use theatricality to his advantage rather than just shooting every criminal he meets gives you the most logical hybrid. Not at all. Batman insisted on keeping a dual identity. The Punisher is just the Punisher. Plus DC has similar serial killing crime-fighters. Several versions of Vigilante were pretty liberal on capital punishment. Plus Punisher lacks Batman's sense of the theatrical. ParanoidObsessive posted... Taken in tandem with his tendency to constantly have young girl "morality pets" (Kitty, Jubilee, Armor, etc) around to keep him from going too far and "giving in to his animal side" as part of his "I need to be a better man" ideals, and it's easy to see the parallels to Batman (what with his endless parade of Robin's, and the common interpretation that one of the reasons he allows anyone to be "Robin" at all is more to keep him from sliding too far into the darkness). So they might have been doing it more to combine the sidekicks than factoring solely on a Wolverine/Batman connection? --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:899085944] in A Geektivu... [t:76102111]...</cite> <quote><cite>ParanoidObsessive posted...</cite> <quote>I'd say the "grimdark" aspect is the main problem. Batman is very much the brooding, grim vigilante, while Peter is quite possibly one of the most upbeat and cheerful of Marvel's heroes (even in spite of all the shit that happens to him on a regular basis). Their worldviews are almost diametrically opposed.</quote> He clearly uses humor to cope, whether he's nervous, afraid, etc. You make him sound a lot more happy-go-lucky than he actually is. <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted...</cite> <quote>This even shows in terms of how they handle their motivating backstory deaths. Batman is a character whose parents' deaths sort of broke him as a functional human being, and left him as an avenging angel who basically has to kick the shit out of crime to assuage his own despair, but Uncle Ben's death acted more as an inspirational moment for Peter, making his crimefighting less of a personal obsession and more a sense of duty (so much so that Peter himself has repeatedly acted as similar motivation to OTHER heroes in the Marvel universe - apparently, just TALKING about his uncle's death and quoting back "With great power etc etc" is one of the most motivational things any young hero can hear in Marvel's world).</quote> Other than having a catchphrase, I'm not seeing a lot of disparity. They're both characters with intense survivors guilt over a traumatic family death which gave them a compulsion to fight crime. And both have a pretty intense complex where they can't abandon it because they view themselves as being indispensable to the cause. And, of course, Batman is known for giving pep talks as well. Just about the only people he tries to talk out of heroing (instead of keeping with it) are his would-be sidekicks. <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted...</cite> <quote>In that sense, the ideal pairing for Batman would probably be the Punisher - but the only flaw there being Batman's unwillingness to kill conflicting with the Punisher's entire MO. But a Batman who is willing to kill or a Punisher who is smarter (basically Frank and Microchip combined into a single person) and willing to use theatricality to his advantage rather than just shooting every criminal he meets gives you the most logical hybrid.</quote> Not at all. Batman insisted on keeping a dual identity. The Punisher is just the Punisher. Plus DC has similar serial killing crime-fighters. Several versions of Vigilante were pretty liberal on capital punishment. Plus Punisher lacks Batman's sense of the theatrical. <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted...</cite> <quote>Taken in tandem with his tendency to constantly have young girl "morality pets" (Kitty, Jubilee, Armor, etc) around to keep him from going too far and "giving in to his animal side" as part of his "I need to be a better man" ideals, and it's easy to see the parallels to Batman (what with his endless parade of Robin's, and the common interpretation that one of the reasons he allows anyone to be "Robin" at all is more to keep him from sliding too far into the darkness).</quote> So they might have been doing it more to combine the sidekicks than factoring solely on a Wolverine/Batman connection? --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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