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Topic	A Geektivus For The Rest Of Us
ParanoidObsessive 04/06/18 7:03:22 PM #381:	Zeus posted... (as always, I hesitate to use "appropriation" given the term's tainted association) Yeah, but that's a problem when certain groups are basically attaching their own meanings to all sorts of terminology, even words that existed long before they did. Especially when there aren't necessarily a lot of alternative words or phrases you can use as synonyms for the original meaning. At least not without having to construct needlessly long and awkward workarounds. At a certain point, I just get to a "Fuck you, I'm taking it back" sort of mentality, and just use the word in its original context, because it's way too much work not to. And because it feels like letting the assholes win. It always annoys me that "problematic" has become a SJW word, in spite of the fact that I used it for years long before shitheads ruined it. It means "something that can cause problems", not "this is vaguely racial/ethnic/cultural/sexual/gender identity/etc related and hurts my feelings, in spite of the fact that I'm probably not even part of the group being referenced anyway, and am just feeling offended by proxy because my parents never loved me." But this is bordering a shade too much on the political, and I do like to keep that sort of thing out of the Geek topics, because these sorts of discussions tend to get in the way of complaining about movies made based on fictional characters in their underwear punching aliens. Zeus posted... The fact that some entertainment isn't art doesn't mean that some art isn't entertainment. That's like saying because not all automobiles are trucks, not all trucks are automobiles. Well, no, since I'm basically describing the entire thing as a Venn Diagram with overlap rather than a set/subset scenario or complete exclusion. Zeus posted... Then you're also excluding some films as art? And some paintings as art? And some songs as music? Yes, absolutely. I'd also say that not all books are art. The fact that things like Twilight and Eragon exist prove that. Zeus posted... If so, you're using "art" as a descriptor of quality. Not really. I'm using it more as a statement of intent and purpose. Zeus posted... If not, you may be a mite hypocritical or working from some weird starting point. I don't see it as hypocritical to say that "art" and "entertainment" are functionally two separate things, and that they can exist in tandem in the same product, as well as exist separately without the other in some cases. Hypocritical would be if I presented the argument that all movies were art, but that video games can't be, even video games which are essentially identical to movies. Because then I would be holding different media to different standards. Which is generally the sort of accusation most people direct at Ebert, but one which I don't necessarily think applies. I think (though admittedly, I may be wrong) that he tended to see things more in the same vein I'm describing than an absolute all-or-nothing situation. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:899183292] in A Geektivu... [t:76102111]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>(as always, I hesitate to use "appropriation" given the term's tainted association)</quote> Yeah, but that's a problem when certain groups are basically attaching their own meanings to all sorts of terminology, even words that existed long before they did. Especially when there aren't necessarily a lot of alternative words or phrases you can use as synonyms for the original meaning. At least not without having to construct needlessly long and awkward workarounds. At a certain point, I just get to a "Fuck you, I'm taking it back" sort of mentality, and just use the word in its original context, because it's way too much work not to. And because it feels like letting the assholes win. It always annoys me that "problematic" has become a SJW word, in spite of the fact that I used it for years long before shitheads ruined it. It means "something that can cause problems", not "this is vaguely racial/ethnic/cultural/sexual/gender identity/etc related and hurts my feelings, in spite of the fact that I'm probably not even part of the group being referenced anyway, and am just feeling offended by proxy because my parents never loved me." But this is bordering a shade too much on the political, and I do like to keep that sort of thing out of the Geek topics, because these sorts of discussions tend to get in the way of complaining about movies made based on fictional characters in their underwear punching aliens. <cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>The fact that some entertainment isn't art doesn't mean that some art isn't entertainment. That's like saying because not all automobiles are trucks, not all trucks are automobiles.</quote> Well, no, since I'm basically describing the entire thing as a Venn Diagram with overlap rather than a set/subset scenario or complete exclusion. <cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>Then you're also excluding some films as art? And some paintings as art? And some songs as music?</quote> Yes, absolutely. I'd also say that not all books are art. The fact that things like Twilight and Eragon exist prove that. <cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>If so, you're using "art" as a descriptor of quality.</quote> Not really. I'm using it more as a statement of intent and purpose. <cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>If not, you may be a mite hypocritical or working from some weird starting point.</quote> I don't see it as hypocritical to say that "art" and "entertainment" are functionally two separate things, and that they can exist in tandem in the same product, as well as exist separately without the other in some cases. Hypocritical would be if I presented the argument that all movies were art, but that video games can't be, even video games which are essentially identical to movies. Because then I would be holding different media to different standards. Which is generally the sort of accusation most people direct at Ebert, but one which I don't necessarily think applies. I think (though admittedly, I may be wrong) that he tended to see things more in the same vein I'm describing than an absolute all-or-nothing situation. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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