Board 8 > so, Metroid: Samus Returns

(+) Yeah! (+)

map stations purposefully don't tell you some parts though. they never give you the whole map.
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tazzyboyishere posted...

It was put in to show the player just how empty the Queen's hive has made the surrounding area, and what it could eventually do to the rest of the planet. It's showing the scale of which the Metroids have affected a once great civilization, so much that an area teeming with clean, running water is void of any form of life. It's probably too long though, and maybe you don't care about the story the game was trying to tell, but it does have a point.

That sounds plausible, but I didn't attribute any of that to the Queen. It looked like a highly natural structure in the world. The chozo/space agency structure that the Queen took root in definitely made the metroids seem powerful, but not the waterfall. I didn't think about the lack of animals thing, I guess that's cool. But there's a lot of relatively empty areas so it didn't feel special to me I guess.
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Just beat AM2R. It was good up until the distribution center which I didn't really care for. The final segments were a slog compared to the rest of the game. It's great that it replicated a lot of Metroid 2's final segments, but considering non of the rest of the game really replicated that sense of isolation and placed emphasis on being a cool Zero Mission game with Metroid 2's map it was kind of boring. Fighting the Metroids was awful the whole way through and each evolution it just became more tedious.

Good game though. I'm glad I played it.
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I like the way it handled the end. I don't have the same feeling on Metroid 2 that you do - I haven't even beaten it. so I can't compare.
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finally finished am2r today that was a nifty game

now I need to finish pokemon moon so I can actually put this game in my 3DS
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OliviaTremor posted...

Fighting the Metroids was awful the whole way through and each evolution it just became more tedious.

I mean that's Metroid 2
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I started a new game of Fusion for an hour or so again. I remember liking it wayyyy more. It's not quite as linear as M2, there's at least a complicated map and lots of side rooms you can get into. But it's sooo much more restricted than I remember. So many doors locked for no reason, so many ledges that I could've easily wall jumped up to. Even simple things like the bomb taking really long to blow up and not being able to shoot while ledge hanging make it feel so much worse than ZM.

Although I did find out for the first time that you can infinite wall jump underwater, gaining like 1 pixel of height each time if you do it right. I only found like 1 place that it could possibly be useful though. I saw a speedrun where they actually used it but even there it wasn't too useful.
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Fusion does open up a little by the end and it feels really good when it does. it kind of seduces you into thinking it's better than it is. that game ends as well as any Metroid.

...well, that might not be true. Super Metroid has a hell of an ending and Metroid 2 apparently does too.
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Fusion was more restrictive in order to amplify the horror of SA-X. If the map were as open as Super or ZM, it would've lost a lot of the tension. It's claustrophobic in a way that forces SA-X to constantly be on your mind, and all the visual and audio cues that show just how close it really is to you are perfect. That's why I loved Fusion. It doesn't really feel like other Metroid games, but it wasn't trying to copy the formula. It sought to build a completely unique experience and succeeded in making it so.
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That's not true at all. SA-X stuff was very limited and scripted. It was scary because you were so weak compared to it, but knowing it was limited to certain specific parts kinda ruined it. There's also the "emergency" kind of sequences that make you race to a spot. That's all good, you can have those linear bits while still generally allowing multiple paths and more exploration in general.

The ZM stealth mission basically did the SA-X thing right. The stealth was a lot more open ended, and the levels were large and allowed for some tricky escapes. Imagine if it was the SA-X instead of generic space pirates. Or if you could just accidentally stumble upon the SA-X by taking a wrong path, or it could come into your room randomly and you had to hide.
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Basically it doesn't feel claustrophobic or scary when you know it's all just scripted and you need to just follow the steps the game wants. It's not mysterious anymore after the first or second encounter. Compare to something like PT which is hyper linear but constantly keeps itself mysterious and claustrophobic with randomness and confusing mechanics.
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Well yeah, but I'm not really talking about replay value. Fusion's definitely relying on the unknown to set the atmosphere. It's certainly not as easy to go back to as other games in the series, but I think it's fantastic for what it is.

Though if they remade Fusion, I would hope they'd add in the idea of stumbling upon SA-X at any point. That would be tight.
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Oh wait, I think I misread your post. I may not be the best judge since I played it for the first time when I was 12, but I can't say I agree with it not being a bit frightening. Sure, you can figure out that the game keeps it limited and scripted, but the total lack of visibility you have of SA-X overall leads to those moments where it's right next to you very tense. The part where you need to confront it directly to progress is especially powerful, because, suddenly, the thing that was once only used in scripted events is now a very real threat that you can't hide from.
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Yeah there's some good moments

But they don't require the ENTIRE game to be so strongly guided and restricted. Like, if the SA-X was locking doors as you tried to escape it, cool. If it's just Adam doing it for no reason, lame.
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I believe you're being locked in by the computer because the Federation doesn't want you interfering with their plans to research the X Parasite, since they know Samus will attempt to eradicate it. Yeah, it's not as cool as a more powerful entity trying to trap and destroy you, but there's at least a plot reason for it.

Then again, I like my Metroid's to be light on the plot, which Fusion certainly isn't.
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transience posted...

I like the way it handled the end. I don't have the same feeling on Metroid 2 that you do - I haven't even beaten it. so I can't compare.

Do you think you will ever go back and beat the original Metroid 2?
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nah. I can't play original gameboy games unless they have dragon quest in the title. that whole platform just isn't technologically up to the task of playing an action game.
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(though that mark brown video made me consider it for a couple of minutes just to compare the two remakes with my own eyes)
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Metroid 2 is a very difficult game to play...
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so I've been thinking about Samus Returns on and off and I think I'm ultimately going to come away with negative feelings when I think back on it. it's just easiest to remember the parts where SR failed than the stuff it does well - because the stuff it does well is done as well or better in other Metroid games.

yeah, area 5 is amazing but it's largely reminiscent of Super Metroid Maridia with its open areas and interesting exploration. the music was good but it was a greatest hits collection of other Metroid games, especially Super Metroid. there were a couple of fun boss fights but they often involved fighting the controls.

on the other hand, I'll clearly remember the lack of enemy and environmental variety. I'll remember how they totally wrecked Metroid 2's ending, using the baby metroid as a weapon upgrade. (I think that's unforgivable. if there's one thing I hold in the highest regard, it's the metroid larva.) I'll remember that random as hell Ridley fight, which I think is a pretty fun fight but just feels completely out of nowhere.

I'll probably need to remind myself that I did end up having a lot of fun with the game, especially in the back half after I got space jump. it's like how I feel about Fusion -- a game that's in my top 50 or so -- but even more extreme.
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Yeah, I've got to let Samus Returns sink in for a bit along with AM2R. With Samus Returns, I think it's fine. Nothing exactly spectacular but I had a lot of fun playing it despite common grievances such as lack of enemy variety, bland environments, and a disappointing ending. I really enjoyed the Aeon powers including the scan pulse. I thought the melee counter was pretty cool and enjoyed the 360 aiming a lot. The individual Metroid fights were fun and the size of the game is impressive. It was neat and I'll go back to it a couple of times down the road even if it wasn't as amazing as the other games. Same with AM2R. Lots of stuff I thought was really, really cool along with some gripes such as the Metroid fights. Still a good game. Both games are solid.

Despite all of that, I still prefer Metroid 2. I'm probably the only person on Earth who prefers the original Metroid 2 and doesn't see anything super wrong about it. It's a fine game all the way through and more than anything else it's consistent in it's tone and gameplay. I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for it.
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Chiming in regarding Fusion...

Tazzy pretty much hit the nail on the head. Everything is exciting, unique, and scary on your first playthrough. The game cleverly tricks the player into making them feel like they have more freedom than the game is letting them have. You'll download the map, but the map is typically only half of what you'll explore or less. Significantly larger sections of the game aren't on the map as opposed to Super Metroid or Metroid Prime so it's very exciting when you break out of bounds on that first playthrough. You don't know if you're necessarily going the correct way, you don't know if the SA-X is coming for you, you don't know if there is a save point coming up, it's super exciting. Of course, that's lost on subsequent playthroughs but the first playthrough is absolutely stellar.
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OliviaTremor posted...

You'll download the map, but the map is typically only half of what you'll explore or less. Significantly larger sections of the game aren't on the map as opposed to Super Metroid or Metroid Prime so it's very exciting when you break out of bounds on that first playthrough.

This still makes it feel very good on multiple playthroughs tbh, even if you know it's still linear. Something about those green squares and notches-on-one-side-but-not-the-other on the map just feels cool. BUT it's too easy to remember the handful of spots the SA-X shows up, so it ruins the surprise there.
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did you guys find the ship area in am2r?
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transcience posted...

did you guys find the ship area in am2r?

Yeah, I fucking loved it
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Nope, I never went for power bomb stuff
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it's pretty unique
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Just beat the game myself.

Good stuff. Surprise Ridley boss was cool, and then the Fusion foreshadow got me hyped af.

Going around finishing up my collectibles. Stuck on this one in Area 4 with spikes though...
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One collectible that a lot of people miss is the Aeon cube in area 4 where you're being chased. it looks a lot like an aeon refill, so it's easy to overlook when you scan the map.
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