Board 8 > Survivor: Heroes/Healers/Hustlers Discussion Topic 5: Spoiler-free finale

(+) Yeah! (+)

My predictions this season were wrong, but here are my hot predix for next season:

The stick from Micronesia will become an actual hidden immunity idol.
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Nameless2000 posted...

My predictions this season were wrong, but here are my hot predix for next season:

The stick from Micronesia will become an actual hidden immunity idol.

I would LOVE to hear Eliza's take on that.
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I'm now remembering that the Randy fake idol ought to be there too.

"Whoever touches that thing can kiss my ass and I hope they lose."
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I've gotta say, even though Ben now ties Mike for the worst winner to win on their first time playing...I'm at least glad it wasn't Chrissy. I mean, truth be told, the entire Final 3 all played pretty bad games, if we're being honest.

Also, there's just a lot of how they do stuff at the end now that I don't like. For instance, I wish they would just do the whole "show the finale episode, then switch over to the reunion when Probst shows up with the votes" thing. The change to Final TC just seems to ruin things and be A LOT too Probst-driven, and this whole Final 4 thing I really don't like at all. Like, saying the other two have to "earn their spot in the Final 3" and talking like it's no free ride is just silly. Everybody that's made the Final 3 through Final 4 Tribal has earned it by not being voted out then, lol.

Of course, this is without even getting into the fact that the twist seems designed to try and eliminate who Probst views as "weaker players/coattail riders", but as this season showed, it's just going to make it easier for them to get to the Final 3 and rob better players even more.

I know I might sound weird saying this but...I almost feel like the changes to the Finale/Reunion format and Final TC were because Probst still wants to sort of do his whole "talk show" thing and still isn't over the fact his talk show didn't work out.

Props to Desi for being a mayor of ponderosa who promoted such a welcoming atmosphere
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Ashley swooning over Devon at Ponderosa is adorable
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I thought this season was ok at times, but Ben wasn't a great winner for me - not a fan of people needing to rely on immunity/idols every episode to stay in the game. Also not a fan of how they will be doing final 4 from now on, with fire to decide the third finalist. May have been ok if it was a one time thing, but Jeff did say it was staying in future seasons (unless I misheard). Wish they would stop changing everything - fairly sure it would still rate well without all the twists and changes.

Didn't watch most of the reunion, stopped once I saw who won (even though it was obvious). I had a fair idea with Jeff taking forever to even start to read out the votes to know I wouldn't miss much interesting by skipping it, and that most of the cast would be ignored (again). Seems I was right.
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I wish Ben would have just on the immunity. I feel like this would have been so less controversial but whatcha gonna do.
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Btw, talked to a couple casual friends of about last night and to quote

"I loved the finale.
it actually protected a beast from going out at 4.
made final 3 much better
I went into final tribal without knowing who would win"

I don't really agree but it is nice to see a different perspective. I think the best case scenario is the one we invisioned yesterday of them knowing ahead of time and then idols stop at 6. But whatever, let's see how Ghost Island changes things
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I went into final tribal without knowing who would win"

I will say that that was the ONE positive of it in this particular instance. Ben vs. Chrissy at least had a shadow of a doubt. Devon vs. Chrissy would have been a slam dunk.
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Imagine how this twist goes down in prior seasons.

Eddie beats Dawn at firemaking and wins because all his friends are on the jury. Would he then be the worst winner ever, gameplay-wise?
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Nameless2000 posted...

My predictions this season were wrong, but here are my hot predix for next season:

The stick from Micronesia will become an actual hidden immunity idol.

I would LOVE to hear Eliza's take on that.

I asked her on Twitter. All I got was a like.

StormTR posted...

Of course, this is without even getting into the fact that the twist seems designed to try and eliminate who Probst views as "weaker players/coattail riders", but as this season showed, it's just going to make it easier for them to get to the Final 3 and rob better players even more.

I agree with this. Ryan mentioned the irony of it all, that his inability to make fire is what got him to the end, as opposed to the reverse. I hope they change the F4 back to the way it should be with S37. While this is better TV, it's not fair for the game. Devon, the best player this season, was robbed all the same as David Wright, the best player on MvX and the probable inspiration for this, was robbed (though by no means is Adam a bad winner, and I am hearing all kinds of casual misconceptions about him like "the jury only voted for him because of his mother" [untrue] or that "they picked him over Hannah because of male bias" [one of the dumbest things I've ever heard]).

StormTR posted...

I've gotta say, even though Ben now ties Mike for the worst winner to win on their first time playing...I'm at least glad it wasn't Chrissy. I mean, truth be told, the entire Final 3 all played pretty bad games, if we're being honest.

How the hell is either Ben or Mike worse than Bob Crowley? Jenna Morasca? Michele Fitzgerald? Fabio Birza? All four of them are weaker winners, because at least Ben and Mike got themselves to the end. Bob lucked into it with Sugar wanting Bob and Matty to go to fire. Jenna made so many enemies and gave up immunity for no reason (should've paid for it) and would have been voted out if she hadn't won either of the last two challenges... and what gives Mike an edge over her is that he'd have beaten Rodney (Hali, Joe, Jenn, and Shirin all vote Mike) while Jenna had no chance against Rob (only getting votes from Heidi and Alex, presuming Christy votes correctly) and might've also lost to Butch. Her only chance was against Matteo, and she took it. But she's still below Mike, who is below Ben.

Michele won because the jury were big babies about losing despite them being the ones who closed bridges off that could have gotten them farther. She also was strategically unaware for most of the merge. Fabio... and things like that.

Meanwhile, Ben found idols when he needed to and tried to pry his way into the majority alliances, but poor play on behalf of several of them - not wholly dissimilar to Kaoh Rong, just on a less nasty scale - forced him to acquire other means. The thing that puts Ben in the bottom third, however, is that he needed a twist in the game to get to the end at all. Because it was so clear-cut that he would've been voted out, people are calling "RIGGED" even though it isn't. And like the casuals Edwards talked to, I did not know whether it would be Ben or Chrissy triumphing in that final 3. I just knew it wasn't Ryan. However, sub Devon for Ben and... I still don't know. Best F3 would've been Ben/Chrissy/Devon. Could you imagine how they'd try to out-argue each other? Would be fun.
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Mike and Ben were worse than all of them because in Mike's case he needed ALL of those Immunities or he'd be voted out and essentially WAS voted out at Final 7 and was only saved by an Idol he found. Anybody who only makes it through a round thanks to an Idol, screwed up majorly and is somebody I could never give my vote to.

Ben only survived because he had THREE Idols, got essentially voted out TWICE, and was only in the Final 4 because of a change to the Final 4 TC they didn't know about beforehand. It's like how I'd never vote for somebody who came back in from Redemption Island because no, you didn't Outlast the other finalists, you were voted out already.

And I really don't know why people were expecting Ben/Chrissy to be close. I mean, Chrissy played a terrible game and had a really bad Final Tribal, so I legitimately have no idea how anybody could have thought she'd stand a chance at winning.

I know you dont like Chrissy, but she did not have a bad FTC.
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I agee, Chrissy had a good FTC. I think it was that performance that got her the 2 votes.

I think at this early spot I would probably have Ben closer to Bob than Mike. Bob only got in because Sugar is nuts. Ben got the twist as where Mike and Fabio had a legit way of winning and in winning immunity challenges. If you take immunity wins as a negative then why even have them.

Give me Mike > Michele ( I wouldn't call her strategically unaware she was in the alliance with Cydney and Aubry after all) > Fabio > Nat White > Amber > Ben > Bob.

At at least had moments of control and the idols were his own doing I feel Bob was clueless for most of it.
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I am watching Gabon for the 2nd time right now (when I watched all the seasons that was my first time) and I am walking away with wow, I feel like Matty should have been the winner more than 'man, look at this game Bob is playing.'
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Yeah, I'd say Chrissy had the best FTC.
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StormTR posted...

Mike and Ben were worse than all of them because in Mike's case he needed ALL of those Immunities or he'd be voted out and essentially WAS voted out at Final 7 and was only saved by an Idol he found. Anybody who only makes it through a round thanks to an Idol, screwed up majorly and is somebody I could never give my vote to.

Idols art part of the game. Period, end of story. If someone plays one and plays it well, then they're doing something right and outmaneuvering the people trying to get rid of them. Many winners have utilized idols to maximum effect, including Mike, who got out the only person that had beaten him in an immunity before Mama C did that round. I'd say that improves his strategic stock, not the reverse. If you MISplay an idol, that's not a good look.

What you're saying is basically you'd never award someone who found an idol a million dollar vote. That's not how Survivor works. Idols are one factor. To exclude anybody that played an idol and used it to blindside somebody else means you're a bitter juror.

Peridiam posted...

Yeah, I'd say Chrissy had the best FTC.

This.

Also, Natalie White is not that bad. She was socially aware and was a good complement to the strategist sitting next to her. She only beat him because he was a total asshole to the jury, meaning they didn't like nor respect him. Amber is below Ben.
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I think I have them swapped because of the twist
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https://twitter.com/DrJapan/status/943668114146906112/photo/1

:O
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The Mana Sword posted...

https://twitter.com/DrJapan/status/943668114146906112/photo/1

:O

I saw this last night.

Why does the upside-down rule only apply to U and not S? Because casuals wouldn't notice it? If Chrissy hadn't won then, would Ben have pulled it off?

...if Ben wins that challenge, who does he take with him? Ryan still?
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Andy, I'm pretty sure Probst missed the upside-down S. It's not a rule that was ignored for one letter.
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Peridiam posted...

Andy, I'm pretty sure Probst missed the upside-down S. It's not a rule that was ignored for one letter.

They have off-camera spotters, you know, that are supposed to catch these things. Eases Probst's workload.
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An upside-down "S" is still an "S" and upside down "U" is an "n" lol
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KujikawaRising posted...

Peridiam posted...

Andy, I'm pretty sure Probst missed the upside-down S. It's not a rule that was ignored for one letter.

They have off-camera spotters, you know, that are supposed to catch these things. Eases Probst's workload.

Perhaps they missed it too.
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Peridiam posted...

KujikawaRising posted...

Peridiam posted...

Andy, I'm pretty sure Probst missed the upside-down S. It's not a rule that was ignored for one letter.

They have off-camera spotters, you know, that are supposed to catch these things. Eases Probst's workload.

Perhaps they missed it too.

It wouldn't be the first time. They messed up the F4 immunity challenge in Africa. Their resolution was to give Tom and Lex each a $100K consolation prize (the typical 2nd place prize) instead of the typical 3rd and 4th place prizes.So the best that could happen is Devon gets the 3rd place prize instead of the 4th place.

There was also that challenge in Pearls where Burton misspelled "liaison" and was incorrectly awarded immunity, but they were able to catch that and fix it before they left the challenge area.
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Just watched the finale. I liked the season a lot overall, but that ending blows. Ben played pretty terribly. A Chrissy or Devon win would have been much more satisfying. Since I started watching again, my season ranking is something like:

Kaoh Rong > Cambodia > HHH > Game Changers > MvGX
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If you liked Kaoh Rong then you'd love SJDS, in case you're looking for a season to watch.
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I loved the finale. It was great.

Reading this topic was a disaster though. Like it's really pathetic.
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KujikawaRising posted...

Bob lucked into it with Sugar wanting Bob and Matty to go to fire.

Ben lucked into it with Production wanting Ben and Devon to go to fire.

(I agree Bob sucks as a winner)
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Although Bob does represent the season really well as a fun clusterfuck
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ClyTheCool posted...

I loved the finale. It was great.

Reading this topic was a disaster though. Like it's really pathetic.

I'm sure you won't mind explaining why it's so pathetic though, right? In such a way that will come across as reasonable and fair, and perhaps enlighten us on the error of our ways?

seriously the only pathetic thing thus far is your judgment. be better than that and just express what you loved and why. being a condescending jerk does nothing.
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I'll be happy to later when I'm on my computer and can write things out

But since this is apparently the topic where we react to things extremely harshly immediately as we see them without taking any time whatsoever to think things out and just assume we are right about everything, I thought I better just go ahead and do that.
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I mean, that's pretty much always what these topics have been
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eaedwards6400 posted...

An upside-down "S" is still an "S" and upside down "U" is an "n" lol

It's possible that the challenge rules allowed the S to go either way, because of that.
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People can say what they want to try and defend the whole Idol thing, but it's Survivor, not "the great Easter Egg Hunt". And honestly, I'm not changing my mind or stance on it. You can have your opinion sure, as odd as it may be, but I'm just saving you the time and saying that my opinion on people needing Idols and Immunity to survive (as opposed to having the Idol defensively so somebody else doesn't, or winning just so your target doesn't) isn't really going to change at all.

ClyTheCool posted...

I'll be happy to later when I'm on my computer and can write things out

But since this is apparently the topic where we react to things extremely harshly immediately as we see them without taking any time whatsoever to think things out and just assume we are right about everything, I thought I better just go ahead and do that.

The difference is we're not bashing each other. How do you manage to miss that?
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I mean, there's a reason so many of us have been talking about Survivor here for 10+ years. It's not because we're at each other, but because we're at each others opinions and then go about discussing the why as best we can. We don't call each other "pathetic" or make pithy little attacks. If we did then this little community wouldn't last the way it has.

Of course, feel free to judge us all you want. Just saying, there's a small but important difference between our reactions and yours.
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Peridiam posted...

I mean, there's a reason so many of us have been talking about Survivor here for 10+ years. It's not because we're at each other, but because we're at each others opinions and then go about discussing the why as best we can. We don't call each other "pathetic" or make pithy little attacks. If we did then this little community wouldn't last the way it has.

Of course, feel free to judge us all you want. Just saying, there's a small but important difference between our reactions and yours.

You know, you say that but...Sucks is still around, isn't it?

sucks is a much bigger community full of transient users though, most of whom troll or post incoherent babble or don't know what they're a part of or who they're discussing the show with
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I just updated my winner ranking today.

Sarah is number 2. Ben is number 35.
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Espeon posted...

Ben is number 35.

All that matters
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Woah, how did Sarah get to 2?
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Truth be told, I have to put Boston Rob as number 35. I can't consider somebody who needs to play 4 times to win as better than someone who wins on their first try.

When I'm ranking winners I tend to divide it, as I order it Won on 1st try > won on 2nd try > won on 3rd try > won on 4th try. As much as I dislike Mike and Ben winning, and aren't a Bob fan, I have them higher than anybody that won on their 2nd/3rd/4th tries as at least they did it on their first.

Peridiam posted...

We don't call each other "pathetic" or make pithy little attacks.

I mean we do to Inviso

but in a loving way
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Peridiam posted...

Woah, how did Sarah get to 2?

This is my skill ranking. Not my favorites ranking. Sarah played a damn good game in Game Changers, even if she sucks.
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StormTR posted...

Truth be told, I have to put Boston Rob as number 35. I can't consider somebody who needs to play 4 times to win as better than someone who wins on their first try.

When I'm ranking winners I tend to divide it, as I order it Won on 1st try > won on 2nd try > won on 3rd try > won on 4th try. As much as I dislike Mike and Ben winning, and aren't a Bob fan, I have them higher than anybody that won on their 2nd/3rd/4th tries as at least they did it on their first.

Is this because of the advantage of playing before? Is Natalie A's experience on Amazing Race considered?
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It's because partly of the advantage of playing before, and partly because well, you already failed to win on your first chance when somebody like say, Denise, didn't.

And I don't really count Natalie A's TAR experience, because I honestly don't know how the two could be considered similar things at all, or how Rocker somehow thought Nadiya's TAR experience would make her a huge threat.

Espeon posted...

Peridiam posted...

Woah, how did Sarah get to 2?

This is my skill ranking. Not my favorites ranking. Sarah played a damn good game in Game Changers, even if she sucks.

I can respect this
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