Poll of the Day > Do you know how to drive a STICK SHIFT...Cause only 18% of AMERICANS do!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

SunWuKung420 posted...

All Nascars are manual because letting a computer control the shifting at that speeds is ludicrous.

What works best for Nascar has very little to do with what works best for everyday drivers.

SunWuKung420 posted...

But let's look at my first Google hit for regular cars:
https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/manual-vs-automatic-car-transmission-pros-cons.html

LinkPizza posted...

I found an article that talks about that, as well.

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html

You'll find conflicting information out there depending on which specific models the article is looking at. The bottom line is that neither is necessarily better if you look at the big picture because it depends a lot on the specific transmissions involved. Some models have more efficient automatic versions, some have less, so making blanket statements is foolish. This is also a relatively recent shift (pun not intended), so an article from 2014 (updated in 2020, but the specific updates are not indicated) may not be the most reliable source, Sunny.

SunWuKung420 posted...

Manual transmissions give drivers greater control over the vehicle.

Duh. That's inherent in the definition of "automatic." As such, that's a semantically null statement. If you want it to have value, you need to explain more concretely why greater control is actually an advantage (and not a vague "you can anticipate conditions and shift preemptively" without talking about what said conditions might be).

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adjl posted...

and not a vague "you can anticipate conditions and shift preemptively" without talking about what said conditions might be

If I need to break down the various conditions as to why having complete control of your power is better than relying on a computer algorithm, then there is no need for me to continue this conversation since you don't have sufficient driving experience.

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know how to manual: yes

like to manual: no

its additional driver work that an automatic transmission can just do itself, and i only drive to comfortably get from point A to B, not to stomp clutch pedal slap stick shifter and hear turbo go REEE.
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I "know" how. I have only done it a couple times many many years ago. It's a complete waste of time tbh.

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Stick shift is the noscoping of driving.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

If I need to break down the various conditions as to why having complete control of your power is better than relying on a computer algorithm, then there is no need for me to continue this conversation since you don't have sufficient driving experience.

If your entire position is that there are conditions where having complete manual control is useful, refusing to list any such conditions means you have no position left. I know that I can count on one hand the number of times a year my automatic car goes over 2500 RPM, which would be when I would have shifted manually if I had the option, and it's never for more than a couple seconds. The only other application I can conceive is driving in extremely hilly conditions where it's a good idea to use a low gear for downhill stretches to avoid riding the brake, and in those cases, I use a lower gear because automatic cars still have the option to do that when needed.

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Dikitain posted...

Yes, but I haven't had to in almost 20 years at this point, and that was only because my father insisted on teaching me how to when I had my permit. Plus the argument of "you should learn in case you ever have to" is getting less and less relavent since unless you are buying a million dollar sports car, most new cars you have to specifically ask the manufacturer to make a manual for you. And it costs extra, so why do it?

The million dollar sports cars don't come with manuals, they have double clutch autos. Manuals today are mostly in the base models of vehicles, or lower ends models. Here in NA anyways.

SunWuKung420 posted...

They aren't. Manual transmissions allow for much finer control of the power transfer between engine and transmission.

This is false. Modern autos shift WAY faster and smoother than any manuals. The autos models today are faster and in some cases get better mileage as well.

xjayguyx posted...

This is false. Modern autos shift WAY faster and smoother than any manuals. The autos models today are faster and in some cases get better mileage as well.

Lol. Computers will always lag behind human skill.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Lol. Computers will always lag behind human skill.

....

Ah, for once your username works for the topic!

DRIFTING INTENSIFIES
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No. Im comfortable with the size of my penis.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Lol. Computers will always lag behind human skill.

have you owned a computer in the last 25 years?

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Lol. Computers will always lag behind human skill.

He says, using a computer to turn his movements into letters far faster than he could ever hope to write said letters.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Lol. Computers will always lag behind human skill.

This isn't even close to being true.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Lol. Computers will always lag behind human skill.

Chess

Go

All factories, word processors, calculators, communication devices etc etc etc would like to disagree with you

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Nope. I don't know how to ride a horse either.

hey fat dummy, that's not an image of an actual stick shift, ok?

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In my country manuals are the norm so of course I know how to drive a manual... but after driving an automatic I won't go back to a manual ever. Even hyper cars are abandoning manuals.

Grendel posted...

I don't know how to ride a horse

I know how, I'm just not particularly good at it.

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Horses: The original self-driving car. I wonder if anyone ever got in trouble for riding their horse while drunk (as in, just riding the horse, and not from causing any incidents on said said horse riding due to being intoxicated).
.

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Sephiroth C Ryu posted...

Horses: The original self-driving car. I wonder if anyone ever got in trouble for riding their horse while drunk (as in, just riding the horse, and not from causing any incidents on said said horse riding due to being intoxicated).
.

In my city, there's laws against horse-riding drunk in public. Also biking, but I'm sure that's more common.

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Sephiroth C Ryu posted...

Horses: The original self-driving car. I wonder if anyone ever got in trouble for riding their horse while drunk (as in, just riding the horse, and not from causing any incidents on said said horse riding due to being intoxicated).
.

Pretty sure you'd still be hit by normal public intoxication charges even if there wasn't something specific.

MrMelodramatic posted...

In my city, there's laws against horse-riding drunk in public. Also biking, but I'm sure that's more common.

Probably a lot less dangerous as well.

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Zeus posted...

Probably a lot less dangerous as well.

idk about that. I'd do my best to avoid hitting a horse, and it has a mind of its own so it'll probably try to avoid hitting me. Bicyclers are a lot harder to spot, and a drunk rider won't have good street-crossing or lane-switching skills

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Wonder how much a mechanic would charge to replace the transmission on a horse?
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Why do extra work. Fuck Manual Transmission Cars. In video games and real life.

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Zeus posted...

Pretty sure you'd still be hit by normal public intoxication charges even if there wasn't something specific.

My understanding is that my local drunk driving laws include cycling under the umbrella of "driving" without any particular differentiation. I'd guess horseback riding would be similarly captured, though I'm not even sure it's legal to ride a horse on city streets without specific permission.

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Sonicplys posted...

Why do extra work. Fuck Manual Transmission Cars. In video games and real life.

The idea is basically that an automatic cannot do it as well as a well-trained human. This is, naturally, pretty much just important for racing.

Computers can certainly calculate things nicely and ensure smooth transitions, yes, but they cannot match a human pretty much for the sole reason that they don't know what the human wants to do next. They aren't looking at the track. The human sees the next part, and is anticipating they way they will be increasing or decreasing their foot's push on the gas pedal. In different circumstances, they may start out doing the same thing with their foot, but whether or not they want to shift or not may depend on what they expect to happen next.

Automatic transmissions cannot know these things. Even once we have safe, self-driving cars, the AI for these cars will not yet be advanced enough to know these things well enough to handle the transmission in the way a human can.

The most impressive game-learning AI yet, AlphaStar (yes I say this is more impressive than AlphaGo), still was using a simulated setting and thus was able to greatly accelerate the game as it played against itself and its variants again and again. Whereas taking the Alpha series AI approach to racing would be much more difficult, with you needing a very accurate simulation of the driving physics and at least a reasonably realistic set of graphics to look at.

AlphaStar, btw, is an AI that plays Starcraft 2 multiplayer. It learns by playing against itself at a highly accelerated speed, and has here and there been released into the ladder to play a set number of games under human supervision (mainly to join the game, and to surrender when necessary because the AI doesn't actually know how to join or leave the match). It hasn't reached the point where it can consistently beat the highest end players, but it does well and sometimes comes up with some interesting strategies. This AI does not see the game from "inside," but rather sees the game the same way you would on a screen, and inputs actions to the game similarly. As such, it is effectively playing the game the same way a human would, looking at the screen and making decisions based on this.

As it has gotten better, the people involved with the project have been applying stricter actions-per-minute limits to it, making it play more and more like a human player. This does mean that some of the cool super-micro-managing that earlier builds pulled off (like that time it basically was ordering individual protoss Stalker units to blink away with high speed micro before they died) is not seen so much in the later builds, and its greatest strength has shifted into the macro game, efficient resource gathering and expansion, etc.

You can search youtube to see people commenting on replays of games AlphaStar played if you are into RTS games at all.
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No but I don't know how to drive at all, so...

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RIZINGphoenix posted...

Wonder how much a mechanic would charge to replace the transmission on a horse?

That's a total loss.

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Yes. My previous car was a Subaru 2005 WRX. Friend gave me a crash course on how to drive manual before I bought it and I refined that after purchasing the vehicle.

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