Current Events > I really like Banjo Tooie, but man the levels just aren't as good as Kazooie's

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think the main problem is that most of the levels are annoying to navigate compared to Kazooie's where the layout of most of the levels was easy to memorize and easy to navigate through the level.

The absolute worst in Banjo Tooie are Glitter Gulch Mine, Grunty Industries, and Cloud Cuckooland. They're all confusing to navigate and are just dull. Terrydactyland is ok, but the shear amount of little caves you have to explore around the mountain is really annoying and the town part of Jolly Roger's Lagoon is fun but the underwater part is very samey and it's hard to remember which cave goes to which part etc..

Great tier:
Mayahem Temple
Witchyworld
Hailfire Peaks

Ok tier:
Terrydactyland
Jolly Roger's Lagoon

Shit tier:
Glitter Gulch Mine
Grunty Industries
Cloud Cuckooland
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I've always had this same issue with Tooie. I never got around to completing it because I would always get to turned around and couldn't figure out some of the puzzles.

As terrible as this is to say, I feel like Tooie had a worse level design than DK64. Yeah, I had problems with DK64 but it was still bearable compared to Tooie.
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Great tier:
Mumbo's Mountain
Treasure Trove Cove
Freezeezy Peak
Gobi's Valley
Rusty Bucket Bay

Good tier:
Bubblegloop Swamp
Mad Monster Mansion
Click Clock Wood

Ok tier:
Clanker's Cavern
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I'd put Glitter Gulch in OK tier just for its music.
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Jolly Roger's Lagoon is a fantastic level, and straight up one of the best water levels in any video game. (An absurdly low bar I admit.)

Other than that, I agree. Banjo-Tooie is a 7/10 compared to Kazooie's 10/10, and level design plays a huge part in that.
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I liked Terrydactyland's atmosphere and theme and all, but man I couldn't get a single jiggy without getting lost at least 5-6 times. The whole place looks the god damn same.

My biggest complaint about Banjo Tooie was the sheer number of jiggies that required revisiting from several levels. Like I'm okay with that in moderation, but there's one in particular I think in Jolly Roger's Lagoon, where you have to A.) Drop an ice cube from Cloud Cuckland, B.) Open a switch in Hailfire Peaks, and C.) Hit a switch in Grunty Industries (even though you can get there straight from Jolly Roger's Lagoon, but still).

There were a lot of annoyances like that. And you keep getting sidetracked when you go to visit those places so you end up totally forgetting about the original mission.

That said, BK is like a 9.5/10, with Tooie being like 9/10. I loved both.

The music from both is like 12/10 too
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I disagree strongly. I find the levels much better than most of Banjo Kazooie. Grunty Industries is the best level in both games.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

I disagree strongly. I find the levels much better than most of Banjo Kazooie. Grunty Industries is the best level in both games.

Joke post. That's literally my least favorite level in both games
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I guess, but Kazooie's levels are all-time classics
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It's full of stuff to do, and really captures the theme and Grunty's apathy to pollution, a lot better than Clanker's Cavern does. It's fun as hell
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LzbWQHQyhI
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>_>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2_oOhQxg38
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Eh, I sort of agree that the levels are too big and confusing, but my bigger problem with the game is all of the connected levels. It was annoying constantly coming up to an area where you can't proceed and you're not sure if you are missing something or if you just need to come back there later with a different ability. I get the idea of trying to entice the players by teasing a later area, but it doesn't really work in BT. It's cool in a game like Zelda, but those tend to be more intuitive about what it might require and the world is more continuous. It doesn't make much sense to me in a game where the worlds are ostensibly self-contained to connect them to each other at arbitrary points.

I was kind of hoping Mario Odyssey would do a take on the connected worlds idea. I think Mario would do a much better job with it because they tend to give you basically all the moves right of the bat, and anything else you'd need is a power-up or some context-sensitive thing that works instantaneously. There are way too many moves in BT; it just becomes confusing and it's annoying when you walk by a context-sensitive pad but you can't use it because you haven't learned the move yet.

DarkChozoGhost posted...

I disagree strongly. I find the levels much better than most of Banjo Kazooie. Grunty Industries is the best level in both games.

Grunty Industries is the point in Banjo-Tooie where I just want to quit. The whole level is unpleasant and needlessly difficult. I don't have anything against tough levels in video games, but it feels like a chore.
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masticatingman posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

I disagree strongly. I find the levels much better than most of Banjo Kazooie. Grunty Industries is the best level in both games.

Grunty Industries is the point in Banjo-Tooie where I just want to quit. The whole level is unpleasant and needlessly difficult. I don't have anything against tough levels in video games, but it feels like a chore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBtt4LKUx1w
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