Poll of the Day > I feel like modern liberalism and the Democratic Party have left me behind

(+) Yeah! (+)

Always considered myself liberal minded but it seems like the party has become so extreme to the point of actually perpetuating things that I stand against like racism and fascism. I've lost a few friends simply because my views don't perfectly align with theirs and they're intolerant of different ideologies.

I mean I'm pro gay marriage, pro choice, in favor of gun control, and believe people are more important than the needs of a corporation. But because I still have questions about some social issues and choose to be skeptical rather than blindly believe everything I'm told about identity politics, I so often feel in conflict with the party that I used to feel represented my views.

I'm sure this topic seems like annoying blogfaqs, but like so many other people I just hate the political field nowadays. It's just extremism on both sides and it seems like common sense is lost in the middle.
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Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.
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Welcome. You, like many others, have been disenfranchised by a party that's focused on absolutely inane ideologies.

I used to be a liberal like you; those were the golden years. Now I'm just a bitter empty shell.
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It's always been a shitfest, but I'll continue to vote for the party that at least outwardly votes in my favor, not a single thing the Republicans, the supposed 'party of the people' does is actually what's best for the individual, it's just naked support of corporations.

what specific issues do you disagree with?
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I was hoping this was going to be some parody since it was Mead and some of the lines read very close to your typical redpilled "awakening." I sure hope that's not what this is, but I'm not sure what you meant to accomplish otherwise by saying it. I mean, yeah, the Democratic party sucks, but the Republican party is much worse, and Trump-brand conservatism is worse still. Swinging to the complete opposite extreme makes no sense to me but it's a popular thing nowadays and I hope you aren't gonna be another who falls for it

Im pretty sure he isnt going to become a hardcore conservative, Chewie.
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JOExHIGASHI posted...

what specific issues do you disagree with?

The culture of identity politics regarding race and gender. I feel that a lot of liberal groups are actually being overtly racist and doing harm to racial equality.

I also personally have a lot of unanswered questions regarding trans individuals. I absolutely don't think they should have to deal with bigoted behavior or be discriminated against, but I also think it is important for both our society as a whole along with the scientific and medical community to take the time to really understand the cause and the best answer to individuals that have disorder between their body and their identity in their mind.

If reassignment surgery and hormone treatments are the best way to handle it, then I'm all for it. However it seems like even taking the time to ask these questions or express a skeptical view is enough to bring out hateful intolerance of a non aligning viewpoint.

It really does seem like the bar is moving further and further. We now how people supporting gender reassignment for prepubescent children, do we really know that is good for a child? I think it is ok to say that we don't know. Then look at the Evergreen College protests that happened earlier this year. An entire school was shut down over racial intolerance for weeks and the media hardly reported on it at all because it showed how illogical and destructive identity politics really are in the real world.
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Rockies posted...

I was hoping this was going to be some parody since it was Mead and some of the lines read very close to your typical redpilled "awakening." I sure hope that's not what this is, but I'm not sure what you meant to accomplish otherwise by saying it. I mean, yeah, the Democratic party sucks, but the Republican party is much worse, and Trump-brand conservatism is worse still. Swinging to the complete opposite extreme makes no sense to me but it's a popular thing nowadays and I hope you aren't gonna be another who falls for it

I don't feel redpilled

I'm not gonna start posting on breitbart or anything
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.

Yep.

I'm just very confused by this topic because it seems like you are lumping "modern liberalism" and the Democratic party together. I don't think that's the case at all; the Democratic party is one of the more conservative sections of liberalism in the US. The type of extremists you're talking about are people who are also upset with the Democratic party, but for different reasons: it's too corporate and corrupt, and their constant attempts to compromise lose them elections (like picking Hillary over Bernie, and Hillary's subsequent flip-flopping). I don't agree with every extreme left view, but I do agree with them that the Dems are lame losers.

DarkKirby2500 posted...

Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.

This. The radical right being in power really pushed a lot of people over the edge in the opposite direction in attempt to balance it out.
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.

People keep quoting this as if it is not what I am trying to express.
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Mead posted...

DarkKirby2500 posted...

Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.

People keep quoting this as if it is not what I am trying to express.

I thought Kirby was agreeing with you?

Xfma100 posted...

Mead posted...

DarkKirby2500 posted...

Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.

People keep quoting this as if it is not what I am trying to express.

I thought Kirby was agreeing with you?

Maybe you're right
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Mead posted...

We now how people supporting gender reassignment for prepubescent children, do we really know that is good for a child?

Almost no one supports that. What most of us support is hormone blockers for prepubescent children. That's not even close to the same thing.
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Golden Road posted...

Mead posted...

We now how people supporting gender reassignment for prepubescent children, do we really know that is good for a child?

Almost no one supports that. What most of us support is hormone blockers for prepubescent children. That's not even close to the same thing.

I would have the same view regarding a situation like that. You're altering their entire life and development as a person based on something they believe as a child. Do we really understand the human mind well enough to know that is the right thing?
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Yeah I dunno if I follow the logic of traditional party politics leaving you behind to extremism when traditional parties in the US skew very center-right at best. The US never really was a liberal democracy. And the mainstream parties typically serve the interests of a few small, wealthy supporters. This is not new.
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What really makes something "extreme" though? In my (obviously biased) opinion, it's easier to identify an extreme right-wing ideology since they are reactionary. If you're wanting to regress to something that's long since been considered unacceptable, it seems pretty clear to me that you're extreme. On the other hand, things that are commonplace now like gay acceptance or integration were once thought of as extremist left wing views. I think it's important to question all ideas and that doesn't mean every left-wing cause is perfect, but I personally feel they mostly come from a good place. There are little nuances to each issue that are questionable, but the bigger picture usually makes sense to me. Like with transgender people for example, I don't agree with everything there or at least feel like there is more to learn, but I find most of the arguments against advancing transgender rights are very disingenuous. I don't think they have some sinister ulterior motive

You sound like a Nazi
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SmokeMassTree posted...

You sound like a Nazi

He's probably the Fuhrer.
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JunkoEnoshima posted...

Yeah I dunno if I follow the logic of traditional party politics leaving you behind to extremism when traditional parties in the US skew very center-right at best. The US never really was a liberal democracy. And the mainstream parties typically serve the interests of a few small, wealthy supporters. This is not new.

Me feeling this way is mostly inspired by the opinions and viewpoints I see expressed in print and televised media.

Rockies posted...

What really makes something "extreme" though?

I would say intolerance and a lack of understanding of those who disagree, basically the inability to have a civil debate about an issue to reach a solution, compromise, or better understanding
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Fair enough, but I'd say that's more something that makes a person extreme, as opposed to specific tenets of their ideology. That question is a lot more subjective. I also think that, regardless of what makes something "extreme", it's a fallacy to imply that moderate is better, because some ideas are obviously superior to others.

Rockies posted...

it's a fallacy to imply that moderate is better, because some ideas are obviously superior to others.

I absolutely agree. For example there are some cultural norms across the world that diminish the rights of women, or outright call for for death to any gay individual. And yet the left wing media seems to blindly accept these as just different cultures instead of focusing on these issues as well.
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Rockies posted...

I'm just very confused by this topic because it seems like you are lumping "modern liberalism" and the Democratic party together. I don't think that's the case at all; the Democratic party is one of the more conservative sections of liberalism in the US. The type of extremists you're talking about are people who are also upset with the Democratic party, but for different reasons: it's too corporate and corrupt, and their constant attempts to compromise lose them elections (like picking Hillary over Bernie, and Hillary's subsequent flip-flopping). I don't agree with every extreme left view, but I do agree with them that the Dems are lame losers.

This is so wrong and really attempts to simply gloss over the truth in what OP laid out.
The Democrat party has become so hard left that it is simply unrecognizable from the party of JFK.
Its platform is, if I had to sum it up, the advocation of blindly turning over all aspects of our lives to government. The Democrat party has been shaped to believe that every problem we face can and should be fixed by government.
Their politics have become vitriolic, and rage-filled. Based purely on raw emotion, and zero principle. They advocate for suppressing and silencing their opponent's speech, because they're incapable of defending and articulating their ideals in the arena of debate. That's because they know that much of what they stand for is utterly reprehensible to the average American.

And before anyone busts out their Jump To Conclusions Mat, the Republican party has plenty of problems of its own too.

Mead posted...

Rockies posted...

it's a fallacy to imply that moderate is better, because some ideas are obviously superior to others.

I absolutely agree. For example there are some cultural norms across the world that diminish the rights of women, or outright call for for death to any gay individual. And yet the left wing media seems to blindly accept these as just different cultures instead of focusing on these issues as well.

That's really not at all an example of what I said though

Yeah I'm not in support of the Republican Party in any way

If anything I feel like my political views no long align with any representative political party
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Rockies posted...

Mead posted...

Rockies posted...

it's a fallacy to imply that moderate is better, because some ideas are obviously superior to others.

I absolutely agree. For example there are some cultural norms across the world that diminish the rights of women, or outright call for for death to any gay individual. And yet the left wing media seems to blindly accept these as just different cultures instead of focusing on these issues as well.

That's really not at all an example of what I said though

Too bad I agree with you anyways
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BeerOnTap posted...

Their politics have become vitriolic, and rage-filled. Based purely on raw emotion, and zero principle. They advocate for suppressing and silencing their opponent's speech, because they're incapable of defending and articulating their ideals in the arena of debate. That's because they know that much of what they stand for is utterly reprehensible to the average American.

Sorry, are you still talking about liberals, or is this about the alt-right and Donald Trump?

Mead posted...

Always considered myself liberal minded but it seems like the party has become so extreme to the point of actually perpetuating things that I stand against like racism and fascism. I've lost a few friends simply because my views don't perfectly align with theirs and they're intolerant of different ideologies.

Yeah, both major parties have been hi-jacked by factions with extremist agendas, none of which are all that palatable. A large part of the problem is that the majority of the American has been cowed into silence by vocal, extremist minorities so we have two parties whose only appeal is as the lesser of two evils.
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On the flip side, I used to consider myself moderate conservative, but while I have shifted left a bit since then, the Republican party seems completely alien to anything I *ever* thought, they're so cartoonishly far to the right.

Also...
Rockies posted...

I'm just very confused by this topic because it seems like you are lumping "modern liberalism" and the Democratic party together. I don't think that's the case at all; the Democratic party is one of the more conservative sections of liberalism in the US. The type of extremists you're talking about are people who are also upset with the Democratic party, but for different reasons: it's too corporate and corrupt, and their constant attempts to compromise lose them elections (like picking Hillary over Bernie, and Hillary's subsequent flip-flopping). I don't agree with every extreme left view, but I do agree with them that the Dems are lame losers.

This. The modern Democratic party is neoliberal (which despite having the word in it, is anything but liberal) and has a lot of the policies that used to be considered center right.
I agree there's left-wing extremists as you describe, TC. But the actual party really isn't like that for the most part.

This is why America needs to move away from the two party system. I find myself in the middle of both as well. I just feel there are so many different opinions nowadays that we need more then one party. But I don't ever see that breaking off. I feel out election policies need to change or we are never gonna get proper representation.
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Rockies posted...

I was hoping this was going to be some parody since it was Mead and some of the lines read very close to your typical redpilled "awakening." I sure hope that's not what this is, but I'm not sure what you meant to accomplish otherwise by saying it. I mean, yeah, the Democratic party sucks, but the Republican party is much worse, and Trump-brand conservatism is worse still. Swinging to the complete opposite extreme makes no sense to me but it's a popular thing nowadays and I hope you aren't gonna be another who falls for it

lol this guy

i agree with the OP.

but i saw it coming. it happened to the republican party when the tea party stuff became a thing (really just went from bad to worse).
now its the lefts turn for it to happen. add on top of it how weak and olive branchy they are after all these years.

the horse shoe theory is correct i think.

so im just gonna sip my tea and do my own thing
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Golden Road posted...

Mead posted...

We now how people supporting gender reassignment for prepubescent children, do we really know that is good for a child?

Almost no one supports that. What most of us support is hormone blockers for prepubescent children. That's not even close to the same thing.

Do you really think putting a prepubescent child on hormone blockers doesn't have any potential to fuck up the child?
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It's backlash. The nutters on the left are just being loud because the nutters on the right are too. I wish I could say, "just ignore the nutters," but that's becoming difficult.

For what it's worth, I've been a socially liberal Republican until the last election. I wanted Kasich. If you think the Democrats have left you behind, imagine how I feel. Republicans went completely insane.

The Democratic Party =/= a liberal party. Maybe during the last couple years of the New Deal era could you ever describe the party as liberal. Otherwise it has always been one half of the only party that exists in this country, the business party. It is the half that very occasionally gives in to public demands but do not mistake that as being liberal. A Democrat will only do that if compelled to by force, not willingly.

DarkKirby2500 posted...

Extremism is bad regardless of ideology.

It always turns into agree or else regardless of what it labels itself as. The right is just usually more up-front about its authoritarian leanings.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

The Democratic Party =/= a liberal party. Maybe during the last couple years of the New Deal era could you ever describe the party as liberal. Otherwise it has always been one half of the only party that exists in this country, the business party. It is the half that very occasionally gives in to public demands but do not mistake that as being liberal. A Democrat will only do that if compelled to by force, not willingly.

I try to tell people this but it always stops the conversation because people don't know how to react when challenged by this notion.

Like you say, the same things will happen regardless of which party is in power because the world is run by businessmen. The social issue farce is mostly a side show to keep the feebleminded docile, unless you're talking about issues that touch business like illegal immigrant labor and other types of servitude in foreign nations.

I don't think normal people will ever realize that their representatives do not care about them, they need to feel like their big Daddy is looking out for their interests and that the herd they chose is their kin.
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MacrossSpecial posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

The Democratic Party =/= a liberal party. Maybe during the last couple years of the New Deal era could you ever describe the party as liberal. Otherwise it has always been one half of the only party that exists in this country, the business party. It is the half that very occasionally gives in to public demands but do not mistake that as being liberal. A Democrat will only do that if compelled to by force, not willingly.

I try to tell people this but it always stops the conversation because people don't know how to react when challenged by this notion.

Like you say, the same things will happen regardless of which party is in power because the world is run by businessmen. The social issue farce is mostly a side show to keep the feebleminded docile, unless you're talking about issues that touch business like illegal immigrant labor and other types of servitude in foreign nations.

I don't think normal people will ever realize that their representatives do not care about them, they need to feel like their big Daddy is looking out for their interests and that the herd they chose is their kin.

I don't think in most countries political systems are completely run by the business class. Just the United States. In other countries (particularly in Europe or South America) there are liberal parties. But our system is gladiatorial and awards zero power for anything but first place. That basically excludes everyone but two hyper competitive and, therefore, easily bought parties from being able to survive.

Mead posted...

I've lost a few friends simply because my views don't perfectly align with theirs and they're intolerant of different ideologies.

My sister called me sexist because I don't talk to a girl had a crush on anymore because she's with someone else, which means I view women as sex objects. Also, apparently I'm sexist because I replied with "I'm friends with almost exclusively fat and/or ugly girls" because I mentioned the fact that girls can be fat/ugly.

My other friend called me a fat hater because I made fun of fat-cat owners, (Not calling her fat/ugly based on the last comment) since overfeeding your animals is borderline animal abuse in my book.

Both cases I just laughed and gave them weird looks. I don't require to be viewed as a saint. People in general are just really dumb. If more people weren't afraid of looking like a jerk, we wouldn't really have all of this, would we?

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Always considered myself liberal minded but it seems like the party has become so extreme to the point of actually perpetuating things that I stand against like racism and fascism. I've lost a few friends simply because my views don't perfectly align with theirs and they're intolerant of different ideologies.

Yeah, both major parties have been hi-jacked by factions with extremist agendas, none of which are all that palatable. A large part of the problem is that the majority of the American has been cowed into silence by vocal, extremist minorities so we have two parties whose only appeal is as the lesser of two evils.

It's scary that out of the entire population of the United States, the best and brightest the political parties could find as candidates for President were Hil/Billy and Donald the Tweeter. If you were writing fiction, you couldn't make this stuff sound believeable.
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