Current Events > Harvard Business Review: Gay men flip, now earn more than straight men.

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UnfairRepresent 12/04/17 9:58:44 AM #1:	A recent Pew Research Foundation study reported that 92% of all LGBTQ adults felt that society is more accepting of them than a decade ago, and 87% of adults report personally knowing someone who is gay or lesbian (up from 61% in 1993) Same-sex couples throughout the country can now get legally married after the 2015 Supreme Court decision in Obergefell v. Hodges. LGBTQ people are highly visible in the media, on television, in the movies, and in the C-suites of major companies like Apple, Google, and IBM. For LGBTQ people, it has certainly seemed as if, in the language of columnist Dan Savages 2010 campaign to combat the epidemic of LGBT youth suicide, It Gets Better. Whether these massive changes have translated into improvements in workplace outcomes for the average gay man or lesbian, however, is not so obvious. There is, for example, no federal nondiscrimination protection on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. A natural question, then, is: have the shifts in approval of LGBTQ individuals corresponded to equivalent improvements in their paychecks? Economists and management scholars have been crunching the numbers on this question for over 20 years, and until very recently, nearly all the studies have found an identical result: if you compare the earnings of two men with similar education profiles, years of experience, skills, and job responsibilities, gay men consistently earns less than straight men (between 5% and 10% less). The stability of this finding has been remarkable: it has been replicated across numerous datasets in several different countries (e.g., Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States) and time periods. It seemingly did not budge. Until now. In a recent paper, a PhD student and I analyzed data from a major federal survey in the United States that had not previously been used in this literature presumably because it only recently began to ask about sexual orientation and found that the gay male earnings penalty had disappeared. And not only had it disappeared, it had turned into a 10% premium, meaning that gay men in recent years earned substantially more than straight men with similar education, experience, and job profiles. We went back through the published literature to see if we were making new or strange measurement or specification choices. We were not. We double- and triple-checked the dataset for other patterns that would indicate some fundamental error or data problem. We found none. We subjected the gay male earnings premium to a host of extra tests to see if we could make the result go away. We could not. Once we had accepted that the finding was not going anywhere that it was real we set about trying to understand and explain it. The simplest explanation that came to mind first was the Dan Savage explanation: It Gets Better. One interpretation of the literatures near-universal prior finding of a gay male earnings penalty was that it was a consequence of labor market discrimination against gay men. If thats the case, then, naturally, improved attitudes toward LGBTQ people would reduce this penalty. Moreover, a few patterns in the literature support this possibility, including the fact that two recent well-controlled field experiments failed to find meaningful differences in employment outcomes for fake candidates whose profiles were manipulated to be either gay or straight (one fielded in 2013 where the candidates profile on a social network site was listed as either interested in men or women, and the other fielded in 2010 where the candidates resume listed a leadership position in an LGBT-related student group or a non-LGBT-related student group). --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891564162] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote> A recent Pew Research Foundation study reported that 92% of all LGBTQ adults felt that society is more accepting of them than a decade ago, and 87% of adults report personally knowing someone who is gay or lesbian (up from 61% in 1993) Same-sex couples throughout the country can now get legally married after the 2015 Supreme Court decision in Obergefell v. Hodges. LGBTQ people are highly visible in the media, on television, in the movies, and in the C-suites of major companies like Apple, Google, and IBM. For LGBTQ people, it has certainly seemed as if, in the language of columnist Dan Savages 2010 campaign to combat the epidemic of LGBT youth suicide, It Gets Better. Whether these massive changes have translated into improvements in workplace outcomes for the average gay man or lesbian, however, is not so obvious. There is, for example, no federal nondiscrimination protection on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. A natural question, then, is: have the shifts in approval of LGBTQ individuals corresponded to equivalent improvements in their paychecks? Economists and management scholars have been crunching the numbers on this question for over 20 years, and until very recently, nearly all the studies have found an identical result: if you compare the earnings of two men with similar education profiles, years of experience, skills, and job responsibilities, gay men consistently earns less than straight men (between 5% and 10% less). The stability of this finding has been remarkable: it has been replicated across numerous datasets in several different countries (e.g., Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States) and time periods. It seemingly did not budge. Until now. In a recent paper, a PhD student and I analyzed data from a major federal survey in the United States that had not previously been used in this literature presumably because it only recently began to ask about sexual orientation and found that the gay male earnings penalty had disappeared. And not only had it disappeared, it had turned into a 10% premium, meaning that gay men in recent years earned substantially more than straight men with similar education, experience, and job profiles. We went back through the published literature to see if we were making new or strange measurement or specification choices. We were not. We double- and triple-checked the dataset for other patterns that would indicate some fundamental error or data problem. We found none. We subjected the gay male earnings premium to a host of extra tests to see if we could make the result go away. We could not. Once we had accepted that the finding was not going anywhere that it was real we set about trying to understand and explain it. The simplest explanation that came to mind first was the Dan Savage explanation: It Gets Better. One interpretation of the literatures near-universal prior finding of a gay male earnings penalty was that it was a consequence of labor market discrimination against gay men. If thats the case, then, naturally, improved attitudes toward LGBTQ people would reduce this penalty. Moreover, a few patterns in the literature support this possibility, including the fact that two recent well-controlled field experiments failed to find meaningful differences in employment outcomes for fake candidates whose profiles were manipulated to be either gay or straight (one fielded in 2013 where the candidates profile on a social network site was listed as either interested in men or women, and the other fielded in 2010 where the candidates resume listed a leadership position in an LGBT-related student group or a non-LGBT-related student group).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/04/17 9:58:51 AM #2:	The null findings of these recent resume studies contrast sharply with an earlier 2005 controlled resume study that also used the LGBT-student group approach and found substantial differences in the likelihood of getting a callback for an interview in favor of the straight candidate, a difference about as large as the black/white callback difference in the well-known Bertrand and Mullainathan Emily and Greg/Lakisha and Jamal resume study. Athough we find a very different result than prior work for relative earnings of gay men compared to straight men, our companion analysis for women found a nearly identical result to decades of published work. Previous studies have found that lesbians tend to earn more than straight women with similar education, experience, skills, and job characteristics, and our estimate using different data was right in line with those of prior work. Is it plausible that it gets better for gay men but not even better for lesbians? Because it is clear that workplace dynamics associated with sexual orientation are different for sexual minority men than for sexual minority women (recall that there has been consistent evidence of a gay male earnings penalty and a lesbian earnings premium for most of the past two decades of study), more research is needed to understand the nature of workplace attitudes regarding sexual orientation and how these might differ between gay men and lesbians. It could be, for example, that historically strong associations between gay men and the HIV epidemic contributed heavily to negative attitudes toward gay men specifically and that reductions in these views benefited gay men relative to straight men but not lesbians relative to straight women. Finally, it is possible that the changing nature of family lives is strongly linked to the changing nature of workplace chances for the LGBTQ community. Prior work has shown that sexual minority women enter into and formalize their same-sex relationships at a higher rate than sexual minority men. But fundamental changes in family opportunities and responsibilities brought about by recent nationwide same-sex marriage may be exerting very different influences in gay male households than in lesbian households, and this changing nature of household specialization theorized by Nobel Prize-winning economist Gary Becker could be producing some of the patterns we have documented. A gay male couple who gets married may have one partner select out of the workforce to focus on caregiving responsibilities; this might make the other partner more productive at work, resulting in relative improvements in gay mens earnings relative to those of straight men. If the relatively lower earning partner systematically selects out of the labor market, this productivity effect would be compounded by a compositional change in the sample of relatively higher earning gay men we observe working. And if the effect of relationship recognition has less effect on women in same-sex couples perhaps because they were more likely to be functioning as a household unit in the absence of formal recognition then this could explain the large difference we see in relative male earnings compared to prior studies and the lack of difference we see in relative female earnings compared with prior work. On the whole, our recent research study likely raises more questions than it answers. But in documenting that the gay male earnings penalty has not only disappeared but in fact has re-emerged as an earnings premium, our results challenge scholars to understand differential workplace experiences of sexual minority men versus sexual minority women and highlight the strong interconnections between the spheres of work and family for LGBTQ Americans. Full Article: https://hbr.org/2017/12/gay-men-used-to-earn-less-than-straight-men-now-they-earn-more I feel bad for Lesbians now. It's their turn. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891564164] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote> The null findings of these recent resume studies contrast sharply with an earlier 2005 controlled resume study that also used the LGBT-student group approach and found substantial differences in the likelihood of getting a callback for an interview in favor of the straight candidate, a difference about as large as the black/white callback difference in the well-known Bertrand and Mullainathan Emily and Greg/Lakisha and Jamal resume study. Athough we find a very different result than prior work for relative earnings of gay men compared to straight men, our companion analysis for women found a nearly identical result to decades of published work. Previous studies have found that lesbians tend to earn more than straight women with similar education, experience, skills, and job characteristics, and our estimate using different data was right in line with those of prior work. Is it plausible that it gets better for gay men but not even better for lesbians? Because it is clear that workplace dynamics associated with sexual orientation are different for sexual minority men than for sexual minority women (recall that there has been consistent evidence of a gay male earnings penalty and a lesbian earnings premium for most of the past two decades of study), more research is needed to understand the nature of workplace attitudes regarding sexual orientation and how these might differ between gay men and lesbians. It could be, for example, that historically strong associations between gay men and the HIV epidemic contributed heavily to negative attitudes toward gay men specifically and that reductions in these views benefited gay men relative to straight men but not lesbians relative to straight women. Finally, it is possible that the changing nature of family lives is strongly linked to the changing nature of workplace chances for the LGBTQ community. Prior work has shown that sexual minority women enter into and formalize their same-sex relationships at a higher rate than sexual minority men. But fundamental changes in family opportunities and responsibilities brought about by recent nationwide same-sex marriage may be exerting very different influences in gay male households than in lesbian households, and this changing nature of household specialization theorized by Nobel Prize-winning economist Gary Becker could be producing some of the patterns we have documented. A gay male couple who gets married may have one partner select out of the workforce to focus on caregiving responsibilities; this might make the other partner more productive at work, resulting in relative improvements in gay mens earnings relative to those of straight men. If the relatively lower earning partner systematically selects out of the labor market, this productivity effect would be compounded by a compositional change in the sample of relatively higher earning gay men we observe working. And if the effect of relationship recognition has less effect on women in same-sex couples perhaps because they were more likely to be functioning as a household unit in the absence of formal recognition then this could explain the large difference we see in relative male earnings compared to prior studies and the lack of difference we see in relative female earnings compared with prior work. On the whole, our recent research study likely raises more questions than it answers. But in documenting that the gay male earnings penalty has not only disappeared but in fact has re-emerged as an earnings premium, our results challenge scholars to understand differential workplace experiences of sexual minority men versus sexual minority women and highlight the strong interconnections between the spheres of work and family for LGBTQ Americans. Full Article: https://hbr.org/2017/12/gay-men-used-to-earn-less-than-straight-men-now-they-earn-more I feel bad for Lesbians now. It's their turn.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/04/17 12:50:56 PM #3:	Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891572096] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/05/17 2:01:29 PM #4:	Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891640215] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ollie89 12/05/17 2:05:18 PM #5:	UnfairRepresent posted... Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news? I've noticed that. --- Woo! <cite>ollie89 posted [p:891640458] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news?</quote> I've noticed that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PoopPotato 12/05/17 2:06:00 PM #6:	They took our jobs --- http://i.minus.com/i5EWBMXTN4ERv.gif <cite>PoopPotato posted [p:891640502] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>They took our jobs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funbazooka 12/05/17 2:14:37 PM #7:	Sounds like they better check their privilege. --- I'll defend any man's Funbazooka! <cite>Funbazooka posted [p:891640992] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>Sounds like they better check their privilege.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/05/17 3:27:15 PM #8:	ollie89 posted... UnfairRepresent posted... Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news? I've noticed that. :P --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891645005] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>ollie89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news?</quote> I've noticed that.</quote> :P</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ballstopshere 12/05/17 3:29:42 PM #9:	The war on straight white males has been successful. <cite>Ballstopshere posted [p:891645132] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>The war on straight white males has been successful.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 12/05/17 3:30:52 PM #10:	@drunkmuggle --- XBL/Steam/R*/Uplay: Barinade88 \| Origin: Barinade \| BattleNet: Barinade#11210 Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:891645212] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>@drunkmuggle</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funbazooka 12/05/17 3:49:54 PM #11:	Ballstopshere posted... The war on straight white males has been successful. Lefties would be lamenting this as further proof of oppression if the opposite were true, by the same standards. Or if it was about blacks vs whites, women, etc. Take your pick of the minority. They're okay with this or even jubilant because the right targets are being hurt here, from their point of view. --- I'll defend any man's Funbazooka! <cite>Funbazooka posted [p:891646314] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ballstopshere posted...</cite> <quote>The war on straight white males has been successful.</quote> Lefties would be lamenting this as further proof of oppression if the opposite were true, by the same standards. Or if it was about blacks vs whites, women, etc. Take your pick of the minority. They're okay with this or even jubilant because the right targets are being hurt here, from their point of view.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/05/17 3:50:49 PM #12:	Funbazooka posted... Lefties would be lamenting this as further proof of oppression if the opposite were true The opposite has been true ever since the research has ever been conducted up till now --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891646368] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Funbazooka posted...</cite> <quote> Lefties would be lamenting this as further proof of oppression if the opposite were true</quote> The opposite has been true ever since the research has ever been conducted up till now</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funbazooka 12/05/17 3:58:13 PM #13:	And that didn't make them oppressed, no more than it makes the straight males oppressed, now that the shoe's on the other foot. --- I'll defend any man's Funbazooka! <cite>Funbazooka posted [p:891646828] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>And that didn't make them oppressed, no more than it makes the straight males oppressed, now that the shoe's on the other foot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CruelBuffalo 12/05/17 3:58:58 PM #14:	Guess things are progressing in society <cite>CruelBuffalo posted [p:891646874] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>Guess things are progressing in society</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 12/05/17 3:59:41 PM #15:	Funbazooka posted... And that didn't make them oppressed, no more than it makes the straight males oppressed, now that the shoe's on the other foot. So if nobody is oppressed then why are you whining so much about ifs --- XBL/Steam/R*/Uplay: Barinade88 \| Origin: Barinade \| BattleNet: Barinade#11210 Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:891646930] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Funbazooka posted...</cite> <quote>And that didn't make them oppressed, no more than it makes the straight males oppressed, now that the shoe's on the other foot.</quote> So if nobody is oppressed then why are you whining so much about ifs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funbazooka 12/05/17 4:01:31 PM #16:	I'm just whining that leftists are loony. Lemme get my whine on bro. --- I'll defend any man's Funbazooka! <cite>Funbazooka posted [p:891647073] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>I'm just whining that leftists are loony. Lemme get my whine on bro.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
drunkmuggle 12/05/17 4:06:29 PM #17:	MacadamianNut3 posted... @drunkmuggle oh this is why you're so rich huh --- http://i.imgur.com/JFmtaHB.gif http://i.imgur.com/jKuSyKI.jpg <cite>drunkmuggle posted [p:891647379] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>MacadamianNut3 posted...</cite> <quote>@drunkmuggle</quote> oh this is why you're so rich huh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 12/05/17 4:07:27 PM #18:	Wow wtf thats a lie on 2 levels --- XBL/Steam/R*/Uplay: Barinade88 \| Origin: Barinade \| BattleNet: Barinade#11210 Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:891647450] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>Wow wtf thats a lie on 2 levels</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KazumaKiryu 12/05/17 4:10:42 PM #19:	UnfairRepresent posted... Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news? How is this happy news? --- Just your bad luck... to run into me. <cite>KazumaKiryu posted [p:891647635] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Guess CE isn't interested. Ever noticed that CE craves sad news not happy news?</quote> How is this happy news?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KazumaKiryu 12/05/17 4:11:01 PM #20:	CruelBuffalo posted... Guess things are progressing in society How is this progress? --- Just your bad luck... to run into me. <cite>KazumaKiryu posted [p:891647653] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>Guess things are progressing in society</quote> How is this progress?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/05/17 4:12:26 PM #21:	KazumaKiryu posted... How is this happy news? Are marginlized group who have always earned less ever since such things were recorded are now earning more. How is that anything other than good news? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891647734] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>KazumaKiryu posted...</cite> <quote> How is this happy news?</quote> Are marginlized group who have always earned less ever since such things were recorded are now earning more. How is that anything other than good news?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KazumaKiryu 12/05/17 4:15:48 PM #22:	UnfairRepresent posted... KazumaKiryu posted... How is this happy news? Are marginlized group who have always earned less ever since such things were recorded are now earning more. How is that anything other than good news? One small group earning more than the majority of the world...happy? --- Just your bad luck... to run into me. <cite>KazumaKiryu posted [p:891647924] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>KazumaKiryu posted...</cite> <quote> How is this happy news?</quote> Are marginlized group who have always earned less ever since such things were recorded are now earning more. How is that anything other than good news?</quote> One small group earning more than the majority of the world...happy?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
philsov 12/05/17 4:17:01 PM #23:	I wish more gay men flipped. Wait, what's this topic about again? We went back through the published literature to see if we were making new or strange measurement or specification choices. We were not. We double- and triple-checked the dataset for other patterns that would indicate some fundamental error or data problem. We found none. We subjected the gay male earnings premium to a host of extra tests to see if we could make the result go away. We could not. Which is a rigor I'm glad to hear they did. Like, the "female wage gap" is more a result of women being in different professions or having different experience levels rather than an apples vs apples comparison, which appears to be the case here. --- Remember that I won't rest, 'til we share the same tense Just know, to me, you're better late than never again. <cite>philsov posted [p:891647982] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>I wish more gay men flipped. Wait, what's this topic about again? <quote>We went back through the published literature to see if we were making new or strange measurement or specification choices. We were not. We double- and triple-checked the dataset for other patterns that would indicate some fundamental error or data problem. We found none. We subjected the gay male earnings premium to a host of extra tests to see if we could make the result go away. We could not.</quote> Which is a rigor I'm glad to hear they did. Like, the "female wage gap" is more a result of women being in different professions or having different experience levels rather than an apples vs apples comparison, which appears to be the case here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 12/05/17 4:17:53 PM #24:	I can confirm this trend. I'm a minority and an elite law school, and in my minority group, straight males are either evenly tied with gay males or we may even be a minority. It's a bit shocking. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:891648024] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>I can confirm this trend. I'm a minority and an elite law school, and in my minority group, straight males are either evenly tied with gay males or we may even be a minority. It's a bit shocking.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/05/17 4:18:21 PM #25:	KazumaKiryu posted... One small group earning more than the majority of the world...happy? That's very dumb wording --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891648046] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>KazumaKiryu posted...</cite> <quote> One small group earning more than the majority of the world...happy?</quote> That's very dumb wording</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/06/17 7:22:05 PM #26:	MacadamianNut3 posted... Wow wtf thats a lie on 2 levels ? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891719260] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote><cite>MacadamianNut3 posted...</cite> <quote>Wow wtf thats a lie on 2 levels</quote> ?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/08/17 1:22:42 PM #27:	bump --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:891828975] in Harvard Bu... [t:76060676]...</cite> <quote>bump</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Harvard Business Review: Gay men flip, now earn more than straight men. (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Harvard Business Review: Gay men flip, now earn more than straight men.