Current Events > Force Awakens is a great movie brought down by 2 terrible leads (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

The actors are fine

But the characters, what the fuck?

You got a Mary Sue who is good at everything and a stormstrooper who acts like he's an American teenager despite the fact that he was brainwashed from birth to fight for the first order. Why doesn't he act sheltered as fuck? How does he break 20+ years of brainwashing in one day?

They can redeem Rey if they explain why she's good at everything in a satisfying way, but Finn is flawed inherently. That character just doesn't make sense.
---

Ive honestly never watched the first three movies completely.

The whole film felt rushed IMO
---

tbf, for the Finn thing, we don't really know the kinda lives he and his order live on their downtime, or the things that they experience(d)

the only real issue there, IMO, is that he's able to turn on them so easily.
---

On_The_Edge posted...

How does he break 20+ years of brainwashing in one day?

My guess would've been force sensitivity if that hadn't been debunked
---

TFA is in no way great, and the only good things about it are Rey and Kylo.
---

16-BITTER posted...

I didn't like how they're supposed to be from a galaxy far far away and shit, but they quip snarky remarks back and forth like they're in any other American movie.

Yeah that too but I'll look past that one
Captain_Qwark posted...

Aren't troopers just normal dudes? How is he brainwashed?

I remember the sith in KOTOR were just regular people (I know that's probably not canon but whatevs)

They said twice that these storm troopers go through essentially brainwashing programs since birth
---

it's possible that the brainwashing was ineffective on Finn, or that its effects were wearing off before the movie started, and that the massacre on the one village was the tipping point
---

ledbowman posted...

TFA is in no way great, and the only good things about it are Rey and Kylo.

This minus Rey
---

clicked cause i liked title

The actors are fine

lol NO

Captain_Qwark posted...

Aren't troopers just normal dudes? How is he brainwashed?

The dude has never known a life outside of storm troopers and literally didn't even know his own name. Finn was the name given to him by Poe Dameron.

He seemed upset that they were killing people in the village but really his character should have believed that the people in those village were literal violent insurrectionists who just want to bring chaos to the galaxy.
---

I hate that the bad guys in SW always have doomsday weapons that can kill solar systems in the blink of an eye, but somehow lose. It's fucking fake-ass bullshit.

VAJoiner posted...

I hate that the bad guys in SW always have doomsday weapons that can kill solar systems in the blink of an eye, but somehow lose. It's fucking fake-ass bullshit.

I like how they made Rogue One to explain A New Hope's bullshit shortly after introducing an even greater bullshit that has no explanation still.
---

Finn had the potential of being a great character. It could have been a look into the mind of someone who was so strong they broke brainwashing. Seeing someone fight with the idea that he left killing just to have to kill once more , and this time people who were brainwashed just like him. There are so many layers to this. But did they look into that nope... they made him into black Yamcha.
---

The original Star Wars film featured a dude that had no combat piloting experience firing a pair of proton torpedoes without technological guidance at a literal deus ex machina hole after being saved by a freighter flying in from out of nowhere past a massive battle station's defenses to shoot the fighters that were trailing him in close proximity.

Let's ease up on saying that Force Awakens gets away with too much compared to the original.
---

K181 posted...

The original Star Wars film featured a dude that had no combat piloting experience firing a pair of proton torpedoes without technological guidance at a literal deus ex machina hole after being saved by a freighter flying in from out of nowhere past a massive battle station's defenses to shoot the fighters that were trailing him in close proximity.

Luke had force training , and he made that shot with a lot of help. Rey just did everything on her own. She even saved herself.
---

K181 posted...

The original Star Wars film featured a dude that had no combat piloting experience

That's not true. He bombed womp rat burrows in a speeder as a hobby.

No military experience, sure, but he's clearly good at shooting things while in a fast moving vehicle.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

VAJoiner posted...

I hate that the bad guys in SW always have doomsday weapons that can kill solar systems in the blink of an eye, but somehow lose. It's fucking fake-ass bullshit.

I like how they made Rogue One to explain A New Hope's bullshit shortly after introducing an even greater bullshit that has no explanation still.

Dont worry, Im 1956 theyll make Rogue Two to explain it.
---

fenderbender321 posted...

I liked Finn. Wtf. It isn't about realism. It's Star Wars. The characters just need to be cool.

Literally everyone should have been vaporized out of existence with the amount of radiation from the explosion at the end.

Like, by all rights this movie should not even have 1 returning character except Leia.
---

cjsdowg posted...

K181 posted...

The original Star Wars film featured a dude that had no combat piloting experience firing a pair of proton torpedoes without technological guidance at a literal deus ex machina hole after being saved by a freighter flying in from out of nowhere past a massive battle station's defenses to shoot the fighters that were trailing him in close proximity.

Luke had force training , and he made that shot with a lot of help. Rey just did everything on her own. She even saved herself.

He had all of one scene worth of training.

ChromaticAngel posted...

K181 posted...

The original Star Wars film featured a dude that had no combat piloting experience

That's not true. He bombed womp rat burrows in a speeder as a hobby.

No military experience, sure, but he's clearly good at shooting things while in a fast moving vehicle.

So a throwaway line explaining something about Rey or Finn would've radically changed TC's opinion on them?
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

VAJoiner posted...

I hate that the bad guys in SW always have doomsday weapons that can kill solar systems in the blink of an eye, but somehow lose. It's fucking fake-ass bullshit.

I like how they made Rogue One to explain A New Hope's bullshit shortly after introducing an even greater bullshit that has no explanation still.

honestly this explains what happen in New Hope a lot better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agcRwGDKulw
---

K181 posted...

So a throwaway line explaining something about Rey or Finn would've radically changed TC's opinion on them?

That line was literally him arguing for the viability of the bombing run. That's not a throwaway line.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

VAJoiner posted...

I hate that the bad guys in SW always have doomsday weapons that can kill solar systems in the blink of an eye, but somehow lose. It's fucking fake-ass bullshit.

I like how they made Rogue One to explain A New Hope's bullshit shortly after introducing an even greater bullshit that has no explanation still.

I didn't see it, but I know all the spoilers... yes. it's a nice attempt to patch things up, but it would have been better to just not repeat the same mistakes. starkiller base was basically a win button... the writers are obviously a bunch of hacks that just say "because good guys win!" and ignore the fact they should be giving believable reasons for it beyond just following a flimsy tradition.

ChromaticAngel posted...

K181 posted...

So a throwaway line explaining something about Rey or Finn would've radically changed TC's opinion on them?

That line was literally him arguing for the viability of the bombing run. That's not a throwaway line.

The line was to make a point about Luke being an experienced pilot, which was something that we hadn't seen at all other than him driving a hovercar. Maybe not a throwaway line, but it's a pretty flimsy in-film justification of a character's abilities, especially one that is introduced very late in the film.
---

K181 posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

K181 posted...

So a throwaway line explaining something about Rey or Finn would've radically changed TC's opinion on them?

That line was literally him arguing for the viability of the bombing run. That's not a throwaway line.

The line was to make a point about Luke being an experienced pilot, which was something that we hadn't seen at all other than him driving a hovercar. Maybe not a throwaway line, but it's a pretty flimsy in-film justification of a character's abilities, especially one that is introduced very late in the film.

It was his response to being told that bombing that hole is impossible.

"I used to bomb the womp rats all the time in my speeder and they're not much bigger than [the death star hole]"
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

K181 posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

K181 posted...

So a throwaway line explaining something about Rey or Finn would've radically changed TC's opinion on them?

That line was literally him arguing for the viability of the bombing run. That's not a throwaway line.

The line was to make a point about Luke being an experienced pilot, which was something that we hadn't seen at all other than him driving a hovercar. Maybe not a throwaway line, but it's a pretty flimsy in-film justification of a character's abilities, especially one that is introduced very late in the film.

It was his response to being told that bombing that hole is impossible.

"I used to bomb the womp rats all the time in my speeder and they're not much bigger than [the death star hole]"

I know the line, but the real purpose was to justify his abilities as a pilot. The context of the conversation was about that, but the purpose for the audience was to let us know that he was a pilot.
---