Current Events > Anyone just really like The Punisher?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not limiting it to just netflix Punisher but the hero as a whole. I thought he was a cool counterpart from Batman, a seemingly normal dude that does what it takes to take down the villain and has no remorse for who dies. Also a good representation for PTSD awareness as a hero medium. Then I read a topic about him on reddit saying hes insane but its a reflection of just how insane the marvel world is and it was p interesting. Dude is really growing on me as a favorite hero.

But yeah. Discuss Punisher pls.
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He's a great character so long as it's not alt-right edgelords acting like he's a role model or cops putting his logo on their squad cars or whatever.

Punisher and batman are both totally insane. Both shows do a grand job of painting their brutality with a light brush but I think Rorschach from Watchmen is the reality of what an anti-hero character would really look like if any kind of reality entered the equation.
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characters in the marvel universe tv shows always act like he is this crazy maniac butcher kind of guy, but then when you watch the shows the crime in the marvel universe is so over the top that his character doesnt really seem nuts at all. like once a week NYC is threatened by immortal ninjas and criminals and you cant even walk down the street without getting mugged & raped.

i think thats my problem, that characters in the marvel shows have this real life interpretation of him but then they live in a world that does not imitate how things really are
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He's the only Marvel guy I really like. He is a sick person, but him going after dirt bags and punishing them entertains me too and part of me wishes people like that in real life get the same treatment. Sue me.

The Punisher MAX stuff is awesome.
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green butter posted...

characters in the marvel universe tv shows always act like he is this crazy maniac butcher kind of guy, but then when you watch the shows the crime in the marvel universe is so over the top that his character doesnt really seem nuts at all. like once a week NYC is threatened by immortal ninjas and criminals and you cant even walk down the street without getting mugged & raped.

i think thats my problem, that characters in the marvel shows have this real life interpretation of him but then they live in a world that does not imitate how things really are

Also a good point. The cops are clearly underequipped to handle immortal ninjas.

I think though it's worth remembering that Punisher isn't really motivated by any grand scheme of justice or balancing the scales. He just wants to hurt people. Guy is like a pig in shit when he's pushing his thumbs through someone's eyesockets or busting their face through broken glass.
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Yes. Yes I do.
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pinky0926 posted...

green butter posted...

characters in the marvel universe tv shows always act like he is this crazy maniac butcher kind of guy, but then when you watch the shows the crime in the marvel universe is so over the top that his character doesnt really seem nuts at all. like once a week NYC is threatened by immortal ninjas and criminals and you cant even walk down the street without getting mugged & raped.

i think thats my problem, that characters in the marvel shows have this real life interpretation of him but then they live in a world that does not imitate how things really are

Also a good point. The cops are clearly underequipped to handle immortal ninjas.

I think though it's worth remembering that Punisher isn't really motivated by any grand scheme of justice or balancing the scales. He just wants to hurt people. Guy is like a pig in shit when he's pushing his thumbs through someone's eyesockets or busting their face through broken glass.

Yeah, but at the same time he wasn't always like that. They do a good job emphasizing that he developed this because of his environment and experiences--The result of an imperfect childhood incubated to maturity in War. Even then, he still desired to suppress that nature until he lost everything he had to live for. So now he lives for what can still make him feel alive, but cannot ditch the last shred of humanity instilled in him by his experience with love and fatherhood.

Upon inspection he is not a man to admire, but he begs to be understood because what made him can show us what could change any of us.

Also, The Punisher on Netflix was far and away Marvel's best written and directed show. An excellent show even outside of the Superhero Fad.
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He's one of my favorites.
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I like the show a lot. All I know about him, sorry I know you said to expand past that but it's all I have to go on.
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nicklebro posted...

I like the show a lot. All I know about him, sorry I know you said to expand past that but it's all I have to go on.

Naw sall good. I really loved the show too and its been my only real exposure to The Punisher. That and the Thomas Jane Punisher movie lol.
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Touch posted...

nicklebro posted...

I like the show a lot. All I know about him, sorry I know you said to expand past that but it's all I have to go on.

Naw sall good. I really loved the show too and its been my only real exposure to The Punisher. That and the Thomas Jane Punisher movie lol.

Yeah I'm only 7 episodes in lol but damn, what a surprise. I keep waiting for it to get cheesy and disappointing, never happens lol. And I'm not a huge fan of other superhero shows. Jon bernthal is a great actor .
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Mostly no. Most of what I've read of him involves him cluelessly complicating the lives of other street level heroes as the villain's proxy, eating crow, and never learning from his mistakes.
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hollow_shrine posted...

Mostly no. Most of what I've read of him involves him cluelessly complicating the lives of other street level heroes as the villain's proxy, eating crow, and never learning from his mistakes.

You don't like complicated charcters? You prefer bland Superman type heroes who never do wrong?
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nicklebro posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

Mostly no. Most of what I've read of him involves him cluelessly complicating the lives of other street level heroes as the villain's proxy, eating crow, and never learning from his mistakes.

You don't like complicated charcters? You prefer bland Superman type heroes who never do wrong?

Complicated? Magneto is complicated.

In these stories Frank Castle isn't so much a character as a plot device. He puts our focus characters through the wringer so they come out looking all the more awesome for it when they overcome all the obstacles.

Even in his own books, he's kind of flat. Writing books with flat protagonists is fine when your periphery characters are on point to give textured perspectives on that flatness. Often successful examples of this end up becoming the ensemble darkhorse and stealing the show, precisely because they're relatable in ways the protagonist isn't and their malleability allows for character drama, pathos, etc.

Too often Frank is the point character with nothing else to give him contrast. He is defined by his inability to compromise, and the genre formulas of his stories prevent from learning or changing in any significant fashion. So he ends up as this serialized revenge fantasy.
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I like Punisher as a villain.

Punisher vs Spider-Man or Daredevil or Wolverine.

Good shit.

pinky0926 posted...

He's a great character so long as it's not alt-right edgelords acting like he's a role model or cops putting his logo on their squad cars or whatever. .

Lmfao

The cringe
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Punisher is one of the most interesting characters Marvel or Dc has. His origin is tragic af and he is a complete badass. In order to really appreciate his badassness you need to read his MAX runs
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pinky0926 posted...

green butter posted...

characters in the marvel universe tv shows always act like he is this crazy maniac butcher kind of guy, but then when you watch the shows the crime in the marvel universe is so over the top that his character doesnt really seem nuts at all. like once a week NYC is threatened by immortal ninjas and criminals and you cant even walk down the street without getting mugged & raped.

i think thats my problem, that characters in the marvel shows have this real life interpretation of him but then they live in a world that does not imitate how things really are

Also a good point. The cops are clearly underequipped to handle immortal ninjas.

I think though it's worth remembering that Punisher isn't really motivated by any grand scheme of justice or balancing the scales. He just wants to hurt people. Guy is like a pig in shit when he's pushing his thumbs through someone's eyesockets or busting their face through broken glass.

Yeah i mean how dare he brutally kill the people who killed his family, used him, betrayed him , tortured him & played him for a fool
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I love The Punished but he's a hard character to get right.

When someone like Garth Ennis gets him it's godlike tho
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nicklebro posted...

Touch posted...

nicklebro posted...

I like the show a lot. All I know about him, sorry I know you said to expand past that but it's all I have to go on.

Naw sall good. I really loved the show too and its been my only real exposure to The Punisher. That and the Thomas Jane Punisher movie lol.

Yeah I'm only 7 episodes in lol but damn, what a surprise. I keep waiting for it to get cheesy and disappointing, never happens lol. And I'm not a huge fan of other superhero shows. Jon bernthal is a great actor .

Nice! Episode...9 I think? The second to last episode. Is probably my favorite episode for a superhero show. And prolly top 5 episode of any show I've watched.
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My favorite comic. I loved the one off stories the best.
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KingCrabCake posted...

pinky0926 posted...

green butter posted...

characters in the marvel universe tv shows always act like he is this crazy maniac butcher kind of guy, but then when you watch the shows the crime in the marvel universe is so over the top that his character doesnt really seem nuts at all. like once a week NYC is threatened by immortal ninjas and criminals and you cant even walk down the street without getting mugged & raped.

i think thats my problem, that characters in the marvel shows have this real life interpretation of him but then they live in a world that does not imitate how things really are

Also a good point. The cops are clearly underequipped to handle immortal ninjas.

I think though it's worth remembering that Punisher isn't really motivated by any grand scheme of justice or balancing the scales. He just wants to hurt people. Guy is like a pig in shit when he's pushing his thumbs through someone's eyesockets or busting their face through broken glass.

Yeah i mean how dare he brutally kill the people who killed his family, used him, betrayed him , tortured him & played him for a fool

This kind of thing is a bit much but it's fine in moderation, and it really serves the character in this moment. It becomes an issue when that's the thing that defines your character to fans, and when this is what readers or looking for when they finish a Punisher comic. For starters, these moments start to mean less and less on their own by virtue of their frequency. This extends to the emotional impact it has on the readers. Second, it starts to undermine the psych thriller, the procedural, and internal conflict within your plot and presentation because of your reader's evolving (or perhaps devolving narrative expectations). The are arguably the narrative elements that make these stories work.

Punisher is hardly the only comic book character for which this has happened (I mean, indie comics in the 90s), but he's got some pretty infamous examples of it.
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hollow_shrine posted...

nicklebro posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

Mostly no. Most of what I've read of him involves him cluelessly complicating the lives of other street level heroes as the villain's proxy, eating crow, and never learning from his mistakes.

You don't like complicated charcters? You prefer bland Superman type heroes who never do wrong?

Complicated? Magneto is complicated.

In these stories Frank Castle isn't so much a character as a plot device. He puts our focus characters through the wringer so they come out looking all the more awesome for it when they overcome all the obstacles.

Even in his own books, he's kind of flat. Writing books with flat protagonists is fine when your periphery characters are on point to give textured perspectives on that flatness. Often successful examples of this end up becoming the ensemble darkhorse and stealing the show, precisely because they're relatable in ways the protagonist isn't and their malleability allows for character drama, pathos, etc.

Too often Frank is the point character with nothing else to give him contrast. He is defined by his inability to compromise, and the genre formulas of his stories prevent from learning or changing in any significant fashion. So he ends up as this serialized revenge fantasy.

I don't see how Magneto is complicated, though he is at least nuanced. But the reasons you gave for not liking the Punisher can be attributed to Magneto as well. I don't get why having an inability to compromise or being a serialized revenge fantasy would be reasons to not like him as a character, and that's ignoring the fact that he is a far more indepth character than that.
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nicklebro posted...

But the reasons you gave for not liking the Punisher can be attributed to Magneto as well.

But Magneto does change and compromise. A lot. He starts out as the worlds most infamous mutant terrorist and he picks up that mantle from time to time, but he drops it just as often. He gives up the Brotherhood in 80's after Asteroid M, willfully turned himself in for his crimes, runs the Xavier school for a stint while Charles can't, spends some time thinking about his life choices but ultimately revives the Brotherhood as the Acolytes when Exodus and Fabian Cortez convince him and mutants need him now more than ever, spends about four years in brain death before waking up to free Genosha (again) and become its president. All of these are broadstrokes and we haven't even left the nineties.

The only things about Magneto that don't change are his suspicion of humanity, his backstory as a holocaust survivor, his friendship with Xavier, and his desire for mutant liberation. Everything else about his methodology has changed dramatically across the years such that he's a cultural symbol within his own universe.

In twenty years, Frank Castle has nothing on that depth, because where other characters grow to become other things as their characterizations allow, Frank Castle is frozen in amber replaying the same scripts over and over again while his readers are placated with vivid power fantasies.
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nicklebro posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

nicklebro posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

Mostly no. Most of what I've read of him involves him cluelessly complicating the lives of other street level heroes as the villain's proxy, eating crow, and never learning from his mistakes.

You don't like complicated charcters? You prefer bland Superman type heroes who never do wrong?

Complicated? Magneto is complicated.

In these stories Frank Castle isn't so much a character as a plot device. He puts our focus characters through the wringer so they come out looking all the more awesome for it when they overcome all the obstacles.

Even in his own books, he's kind of flat. Writing books with flat protagonists is fine when your periphery characters are on point to give textured perspectives on that flatness. Often successful examples of this end up becoming the ensemble darkhorse and stealing the show, precisely because they're relatable in ways the protagonist isn't and their malleability allows for character drama, pathos, etc.

Too often Frank is the point character with nothing else to give him contrast. He is defined by his inability to compromise, and the genre formulas of his stories prevent from learning or changing in any significant fashion. So he ends up as this serialized revenge fantasy.

I don't see how Magneto is complicated, though he is at least nuanced. But the reasons you gave for not liking the Punisher can be attributed to Magneto as well. I don't get why having an inability to compromise or being a serialized revenge fantasy would be reasons to not like him as a character, and that's ignoring the fact that he is a far more indepth character than that.

You dont see how Magneto is complicated?? What comics have you read with him in it?
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KingCrabCake posted...

You dont see how Magneto is complicated?? What comics have you read with him in it?

A ton, what about him is complicated to you? I mean he's definitely conflicted, but I don't see how his story is all that complex, seems pretty straightforward to me. But this is a very minor detail in the discussion we were having, I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

Do you dislike Punisher but like Magneto as well?
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nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

You dont see how Magneto is complicated?? What comics have you read with him in it?

A ton, what about him is complicated to you? I mean he's definitely conflicted, but I don't see how his story is all that complex, seems pretty straightforward to me. But this is a very minor detail in the discussion we were having, I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

Do you dislike Punisher but like Magneto as well?

what r some of the Specific stories u read of magneto...
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nicklebro posted...

I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

It's not that the Punisher's flaws make him unlikable. It's that a lot of his stories aren't even aware that he has flaws and are content to show you similar Punisher stories over and over again. And this has kind of derailed the character to many of his readers, except the readers who know some of the crazies that written him and likewise know how inconsistent these books can be from author to author. Ask a Punisher fan what they like about the Punisher and they'll tell you they like how his stories 'vindicate their sense of justice' and 'how satisfying it was watching him torture and kill (acceptable target X).'

Like, when people finish reading Watchman and come away more politically sympathetic towards Rorschach, we have to wonder if we even read the same book. There's a cognitive dissonance there because the book is clearly critical of much of Rorschach's character. Punisher titles are often those kinds of stories being told without the nuance or critical awareness of Alan Moore.
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KingCrabCake posted...

nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

You dont see how Magneto is complicated?? What comics have you read with him in it?

A ton, what about him is complicated to you? I mean he's definitely conflicted, but I don't see how his story is all that complex, seems pretty straightforward to me. But this is a very minor detail in the discussion we were having, I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

Do you dislike Punisher but like Magneto as well?

what r some of the Specific stories u read of magneto...

Why do you need specific stories? I've read a decent amount, I don't see how it matters if you know exactly which storylines I've read or are at least familiar with. I really don't want someone to derail this topic by harping on this irrelevant detail, so I'll just repost this again to see if someone can actually respond before I choose to move on.

A ton, what about him is complicated to you? I mean he's definitely conflicted, but I don't see how his story is all that complex, seems pretty straightforward to me. But this is a very minor detail in the discussion we were having, I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

Do you dislike Punisher but like Magneto as well?

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hollow_shrine posted...

nicklebro posted...

I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

It's not that the Punisher's flaws make him unlikable. It's that a lot of his stories aren't even aware that he has flaws and are content to show you similar Punisher stories over and over again. And this has kind of derailed the character. Ask a Punisher fan what they like about the Punisher and they'll tell you they like how his stories 'vindicate their sense of justice' and 'how satisfying it was watching him torture and kill (acceptable target X).'

Like, when people finish reading Watchman and come away more politically sympathetic towards Rorschach, we have to wonder if we even read the same book. There's a cognitive dissonance there because the book is clearly critical of much of Rorschach's character. Punisher titles are often those kinds of stories being told without the nuance or critical awareness of Alan Moore.

So it isn't the actual character you dislike, its just the stories that he's in get repetitive? I don't see what's wrong with liking the things you said Punisher fans like about him. But that may be because I'm hardly familiar with the character at all. The only time I've read about the Punisher is when he's popped up in another characters comic, and the TV show. But he's always seemed like a super cool character to me, and I've always liked him for the same reasons you say other people like him for.

So would you say its just the repetitive storylines that caused you to not like him as a character?
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Yeah I dig punisher, but don't like it much when he interacts with other heros. He's a grindhouse revenge character and is better when he just sticks to that.

You should checklut punisher warzone, by far the best punisher movie. The netflix show is way better, but it's still a good version of the character.
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BuckVanHammer posted...

Yeah I dig punisher, but don't like it much when he interacts with other heros. He's a grindhouse revenge character and is better when he just sticks to that.

You should checklut punisher warzone, by far the best punisher movie.

Is it on Netflix? Where can I watch it?
And I agree, he's not really a superhero kinda thing and his story doesn't match the tone and pace of hardly anyone else except for maybe a super dark batman (sort of), but obviously different producers make that irrelevant.
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nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

You dont see how Magneto is complicated?? What comics have you read with him in it?

A ton, what about him is complicated to you? I mean he's definitely conflicted, but I don't see how his story is all that complex, seems pretty straightforward to me. But this is a very minor detail in the discussion we were having, I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

Do you dislike Punisher but like Magneto as well?

what r some of the Specific stories u read of magneto...

Why do you need specific stories? I've read a decent amount, I don't see how it matters if you know exactly which storylines I've read or are at least familiar with. I really don't want someone to derail this topic by harping on this irrelevant detail, so I'll just repost this again to see if someone can actually respond before I choose to move on.

No im asking because i dont believe you have read any nevermind tons....if someone who has read "tons" of Magneto stories cant see how he is a complicated character i am going to call bullshit on it because that person is most likely lying.

I personally think you're just judging Magneto off of tv shows and movies.
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nicklebro posted...

BuckVanHammer posted...

Yeah I dig punisher, but don't like it much when he interacts with other heros. He's a grindhouse revenge character and is better when he just sticks to that.

You should checklut punisher warzone, by far the best punisher movie.

Is it on Netflix? Where can I watch it?
And I agree, he's not really a superhero kinda thing and his story doesn't match the tone and pace of hardly anyone else except for maybe a super dark batman (sort of), but obviously different producers make that irrelevant.

His tone marches Wolverine, Blade, Elektra, Black Widow, Magneto...to just name a few

And in DC he matches Red Hood extremely well
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KingCrabCake posted...

nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

You dont see how Magneto is complicated?? What comics have you read with him in it?

A ton, what about him is complicated to you? I mean he's definitely conflicted, but I don't see how his story is all that complex, seems pretty straightforward to me. But this is a very minor detail in the discussion we were having, I'm more trying to find out why The Punisher's imperfections make him unlikable (though I know hardly anything about him, which is why I'm asking) compared to Magneto's imperfections having the opposite effect.

Do you dislike Punisher but like Magneto as well?

what r some of the Specific stories u read of magneto...

Why do you need specific stories? I've read a decent amount, I don't see how it matters if you know exactly which storylines I've read or are at least familiar with. I really don't want someone to derail this topic by harping on this irrelevant detail, so I'll just repost this again to see if someone can actually respond before I choose to move on.

No im asking because i dont believe you have read any nevermind tons....if someone who has read "tons" of Magneto stories cant see how he is a complicated character i am going to call bullshit on it because that person is most likely lying.

lol I knew it, I knew there was no way you were here to have a mature discussion. You don't know how to do anything other than troll.

Weird how I'd admit to knowing next to nothing about the Punisher but for some reason lie about having read Magneto comics. Jesus man, you need to grow up.

Luckily there are actually quality posters ITT that are worth talking to, so once again, get in your last word that I know you can't live without, and I'm going to ignore you like I do every time you start to throw your little hissy fits.
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nicklebro posted...

BuckVanHammer posted...

Yeah I dig punisher, but don't like it much when he interacts with other heros. He's a grindhouse revenge character and is better when he just sticks to that.

You should checklut punisher warzone, by far the best punisher movie.

Is it on Netflix? Where can I watch it?
And I agree, he's not really a superhero kinda thing and his story doesn't match the tone and pace of hardly anyone else except for maybe a super dark batman (sort of), but obviously different producers make that irrelevant.

Don't think it's currently streaming on anything atm. I picked it up on blu ray for next to nothing a while back.
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KingCrabCake posted...

His tone marches Wolverine, Blade, Elektra, Black Widow, Magneto...to just name a few

And in DC he matches Red Hood extremely well

Not since that whole Xorneto mess back in 2003. And even that was a throwback moment for him to the 1993 Fatal Attractions story arc. For most of the past twenty years Magneto has been comparatively pretty chill.
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hollow_shrine posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

His tone marches Wolverine, Blade, Elektra, Black Widow, Magneto...to just name a few

And in DC he matches Red Hood extremely well

Not since that whole Xorneto mess back in 2003. And even that was a throwback moment for him to the 1993 Fatal Attractions story arc. For most of the past twenty years Magneto has been comparatively pretty chill.

Except his last solo r....or his last run as an xmen leader
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BuckVanHammer posted...

nicklebro posted...

BuckVanHammer posted...

Yeah I dig punisher, but don't like it much when he interacts with other heros. He's a grindhouse revenge character and is better when he just sticks to that.

You should checklut punisher warzone, by far the best punisher movie.

Is it on Netflix? Where can I watch it?
And I agree, he's not really a superhero kinda thing and his story doesn't match the tone and pace of hardly anyone else except for maybe a super dark batman (sort of), but obviously different producers make that irrelevant.

Don't think it's currently streaming on anything atm. I picked it up on blu ray for next to nothing a while back.

ah ok. I can probably download it COMPLETELY LEGALLY YOU FUCKING RAT SNITCH MODS.... *wink wink*

Lol anyways can you give just a quick synopsis?
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Ya punisher is bad ass
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@nicklebro he goes after a crime family in ny. Accidently kills an undercover cop so he is then hunted by the police and the crime boss end up hunting him down for the rest of the movie.
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Yeah I like The Punisher but hated how Netflix did it.
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Forlorn_Ass posted...

Yeah I like The Punisher but hated how Netflix did it.

Whys that?
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Touch posted...

Forlorn_Ass posted...

Yeah I like The Punisher but hated how Netflix did it.

Whys that?

Wasnt dark and edgy enough. Like if they never referred to him as The Punisher, you wouldnt even know it was him. It felt like a CSI crime show.
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Forlorn_Ass posted...

Touch posted...

Forlorn_Ass posted...

Yeah I like The Punisher but hated how Netflix did it.

Whys that?

Wasnt dark and edgy enough. Like if they never referred to him as The Punisher, you wouldnt even know it was him. It felt like a CSI crime show.

Punisher really isnt edgy tho..

The show did a better job portraying Castle than any movie ever did.
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KingCrabCake posted...

@nicklebro he goes after a crime family in ny. Accidently kills an undercover cop so he is then hunted by the police and the crime boss end up hunting him down for the rest of the movie.

Hmmm, maybe they were right about Punisher storylines being a bit similar lol.
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nicklebro posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

@nicklebro he goes after a crime family in ny. Accidently kills an undercover cop so he is then hunted by the police and the crime boss end up hunting him down for the rest of the movie.

Hmmm, maybe they were right about Punisher storylines being a bit similar lol.

They're not tho. The movie was just terrible. Great action movie tho...horrible punisher movie.

But seriously Nick what Magneto stories have you read, cause its really bothering me you dont see how he is a complex character. (Hes one of my favorites so its why im interested. You can PM me if you want to just have the discussion privately.)
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Currently watching the Netflix series. I have two episodes left before I'm done, but I haven't been feeling it the entire time.
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I love Punisher. He's probably one of my favorite Marvel characters.

That being said, he's so fucking easy to fuck up so he's got a lot more shitty stories than great stories IMO. When he's done right, he's done right really well. When he's done wrong, it's fucking abysmal.

Like the current run I think has him running around in stolen War Machine armor, and I haven't actually read it yet but I can already tell it's probably going to be awful.

Like, I enjoy that he is part of the Marvel Universe, but more often than not he's completely fucked up when you actually try to use him in the "greater" Marvel Universe. In fact I'd say Garth Ennis was the only one who did it right with his interactions with Daredevil, Spider-Man and Wolverine.
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