Current Events > This girl I'm talking with is a 19 year old marxist intersectional feminist

(+) Yeah! (+)

Idk why I committed to go on a date with her tomorrow

She seems ideologically possessed
---

dear god why would you do that to yourself
---

is she hot

she's either going to be a thot or a prude

which is it
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

dear god why would you do that to yourself

Idk she's a Christian and young so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt

Plus she's intriguing and I just wanna satisfy my curiosity
---

Aki_Narukami posted...

is she hot

Not sure but she seems cute from her pictures
---

being a marxist and christian seems like an oxymoron to me.

have fun though
---

you should penetrate her
---

bob742omb posted...

being a marxist and christian seems like an oxymoron to me.

have fun though

You're telling me

She's a new Christian and pretty young so I don't really expect much of her at this point. I have to see how committed she is to these things before I blow her off, but I'm anticipating I will have to because we are pretty much ideological opposites in every sense except Christianity
---

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

you should penetrate her

That would be playing with fire, man
---

You're going to regret this
---

REMercsChamp posted...

You're going to regret this

Probably not it's just one date

But there's a possibility I will, yeah
---

nice
---

is it me or are people with religious fundamentalist upbringings more likely to succumb to ideologies like that
---

TheMikh posted...

is it me or are people with religious fundamentalist upbringings more likely to succumb to ideologies like that

I'm not sure
---

Make her pay for the date and then bang her but tell her you only want a blow job and anal.
---

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.
---

Lotta overlap between Christ's teachings and Marxism, but usually that's a combo seen in Latin America and Europe, not the US
---

gunplagirl posted...

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.

What did Jesus say that's remotely marxist?
---

http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/why-marxs-philosophy-but-not-his-economics-matters-now/

3:AM: Should we take seriously his statement that the handmill gave us feudal lords and the steam mill capitalists? Isnt this far too crude and exaggerated a claim to be taken seriously and doesnt it point to what some, like Ernest Gellner, would say was Marxisms disastrous mistake, to argue that productive forces determined everything, rather than seeing them as one important strand alongside other forces such as coercion and ideology? Not having a theory of coercion meant that come the revolution, coercive forces found it easy to take control and there was nothing in the Marxist toolkit to stop them!

PS: I doubt that having a theory of coercion would have made any difference. The crucial mistake was that Marx had a fatally flawed view of human nature. Bakunin, Marxs anarchist rival, saw that if you appoint workers to governing or administrative bodies, they cease to be workers, and start to represent the governing class. Marx rejected that criticism. He thought that if you change the economic structure of society, you change human nature. The Soviet Union proved that Bakunin was right. The abolition of private ownership of the means of production did not turn communist functionaries into selfless proponents of the good of all.

As for Marxs line about the hand mill and the steam mill, it was certainly an overly simple statement of the materialist conception of history, as Engels later said. And in a long work known as the Grundrisse, Marx showed a much more sophisticated understanding of the interactions of various elements. But he never published the Grundrisse until the second half of the twentieth century, it was unknown. The problem is that Marx wanted to claim that his theory is scientific, and the more you allow that the productive forces are just one causal factor, alongside others, the more difficult it becomes to prove, or disprove, the theory.

3:AM: If the Hegelian strand of his thinking is taken seriously then it seems capitalism will inevitably end and the working class will rule. This prompts the question Why not just sit and wait rather than agitate? Shouldnt Marxists not give to charities and make as much money as they can in the knowledge that nothing they do will stop the inevitable march to freedom?

PS: Marx himself rejected that view he spent many arduous hours trying to advance the revolution. He may have thought that the revolution was inevitable, but by working for it one could make it come sooner, and thus bring an earlier end to the immense suffering that capitalism causes.

3:AM: Can you sketch for us the main points of his critique of capitalism and say whether you think its a viable approach to capitalism even now? I guess Im asking the obvious question here: about economics was he right?

PS: Marx thought that capitalism would lead to more and more people becoming workers, without property, living barely above the level of subsistence, while the capitalist class got smaller and smaller. He thought that this would happen first in the most advanced capitalist countries, and that it would lead to a large and impoverished working class arising and overthrowing capitalism. He was clearly wrong about that. The working class in the most advanced capitalist countries is much better off than they were in Marxs time, and communist revolutions have occurred exclusively in less developed countries, never in the most advanced ones.

Some Marxists have tried to defend Marxs view by saying that capitalism became global, and the workers of developing countries are now the global proletariat. But if so, it is clear that they are not united and have no real prospect of overthrowing global capitalism. And anyway, the facts are that even for workers in developing countries, the number in extreme poverty is shrinking, not growing.

---

3:AM: The last century saw attempts to set up communist societies and China still calls itself one. What do you make of the mainly obsolete attempts of our near past? What do they tell us about Marxs ideas?

PS: They tell us that Marx was really bad at prediction. He was wrong about the future of capitalism, he was wrong about what would happen when, after a revolution, workers took over government, he was wrong about the post-revolutionary decline of the coercive state, and he was wrong about the productivity of an economic system in which capitalism is abolished and the economy is run by the state or by committees of workers.

3:AM: Some, including the Chinese leadership, say that China is an example of successful Marxism a socialism with Chinese characteristics. And when we look it seems to be pretty much what many Marxists were against vast inequality, more billionaires than any other country including the USA always held up as the monster capitalist society a dictatorship, vast coercive forces, colonialism and so forth. Is China a reason for capitalists to be comfortable with Marx, and Marxists to be afraid?

PS: It is ironic that the clearest refutation of Marxs predictions about a communist economy have come from China. As long as China had anything resembling a communist economy, it was a very poor country. After Dengs economic reforms allowed capitalism back into China, hundreds of millions of people have escaped poverty. Thats not a reason for capitalists to be comfortable with Marx the real Marx at all. Socialism with Chinese characteristics doesnt bear much resemblance to the socialism that Marx envisaged.


Show her this interview lol
---

On_The_Edge posted...

gunplagirl posted...

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.

What did Jesus say that's remotely marxist?

Nothing, Marxists are like anyone else in that they want to leverage authority figures to try to pretend their beliefs have moral value.
---

Is her name Albert Einstein?
---

On_The_Edge posted...

gunplagirl posted...

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.

What did Jesus say that's remotely marxist?

You mean besides saying the rich can't hope to get into heaven, that they should give up everything they have to the poor if they wish to follow him, giving out free food and healthcare (healing touch, same difference contextually), praising those who are poor and still gave everything over the rich who can give countless times more but still not feel any financial strain in doing so, literally whipping money changers (bank equivalent at the time) in the temple for defiling God with money, stuff about the meek and workers in the fields being what makes the world go round.
---

gunplagirl posted...

On_The_Edge posted...

gunplagirl posted...

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.

What did Jesus say that's remotely marxist?

You mean besides saying the rich can't hope to get into heaven, that they should give up everything they have to the poor if they wish to follow him, giving out free food and healthcare (healing touch, same difference contextually), praising those who are poor and still gave everything over the rich who can give countless times more but still not feel any financial strain in doing so, literally whipping money changers (bank equivalent at the time) in the temple for defiling God with money, stuff about the meek and workers in the fields being what makes the world go round.

So basically communism is possible only when there's a cosmic fairy that can create free food and healing miracles out of thin air?
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

On_The_Edge posted...

gunplagirl posted...

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.

What did Jesus say that's remotely marxist?

Nothing, Marxists are like anyone else in that they want to leverage authority figures to try to pretend their beliefs have moral value.

Bzz try again

Though to be fair, it is worth noting the question itself is a bit off. Attributing Marxist theory to Christ given the fact that Christ predated Marx by hundreds of years, kind of demonstrates a framing issue. If anything the attribution of Christ's word and how it ultimately influenced Marx is the better question.
---

Marxism can't gain members and supporters unless they brainwash naive students.
---

Yikes, abort mission.

Unless the ass is that good
---

Your understanding of those things Jesus said is off, in either case.

1) He didn't say the rich can't get to heaven. He said it's harder for the rich to get to heaven. There were rich apostles and disciples.

2) He told people who wanted to be his immediate disciples that they had to give up what they had and follow him. We can't do that anymore since Jesus isn't around to preach anymore.

3) He gave out free food and healing miracles because he was a powerful cosmic being. Not because of some socialist beliefs.

4) He praised the poor woman who gave thoughtfully and from the bottom of her heart. That was not an indictment against the rich.

5) He whipped money changers because they weren't supposed to be doing that inside the Temple. That was not an indictment on money.

6) When it was talking about the meek and the humble who will inherit the earth, it was talking about spiritual matters. Not financial matters.
---

halomonkey1_3_5 posted...

she's either going to be a thot or a prude

which is it

---

Funbazooka posted...

Marxism can't gain members and supporters unless they brainwash naive students.

Basically. Young people like socialism until they get jobs.
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

gunplagirl posted...

On_The_Edge posted...

gunplagirl posted...

The only way to be Marxist and Christian is if she literally only focuses on what Jesus said. Which is what you're supposed to do. But I digress.

What did Jesus say that's remotely marxist?

You mean besides saying the rich can't hope to get into heaven, that they should give up everything they have to the poor if they wish to follow him, giving out free food and healthcare (healing touch, same difference contextually), praising those who are poor and still gave everything over the rich who can give countless times more but still not feel any financial strain in doing so, literally whipping money changers (bank equivalent at the time) in the temple for defiling God with money, stuff about the meek and workers in the fields being what makes the world go round.

So basically communism is possible only when there's a cosmic fairy that can create free food and healing miracles out of thin air?

Even for you that's low effort.

We have the technology to provide food, homes and medical care to everyone, it's only because there's not necessarily a financial benefit in doing so as well as artificial inflation of prices (especially in the US where insurance is mandatory to keep medical expenses down and by that I mean between a patient and their insurance they'll pay pennies on the dollar combined compared to an uninsured patient for a routine treatment)... I could go on about the insurance industry as it's what I'm certified in and whatnot. But basically, it is a major part of why medical care in the US is expensive. See also, federal student loans and the increase in tuition.
---

gunplagirl posted...

We have the technology to provide food, homes and medical care to everyone,

We don't currently have the technology and resources to do that. Thankfully capitalism has been increasing the standard of living for everyone on earth, though, so one day we might get there.

gunplagirl posted...

it's only because there's not necessarily a financial benefit in doing so as well as artificial inflation of prices (especially in the US where insurance is mandatory to keep medical expenses down and by that I mean between a patient and their insurance they'll pay pennies on the dollar combined compared to an uninsured patient for a routine treatment)... I could go on about the insurance industry as it's what I'm certified in and whatnot. But basically, it is a major part of why medical care in the US is expensive. See also, federal student loans and the increase in tuition.

Tuition went up because the federal government made easy money available to literally anyone, which means costs will go up as school administrations take advantage of the easy money.

One of the major reasons why healthcare in America is so expensive is because we spend 20% of our yearly healthcare spending on obesity and 10% on smoking. If our population didn't have smoking and obesity epidemics, we'd be healthier and cheaper to insure. It is not sustainable to try to throw tax money at healthcare while our nation is getting fatter and lazier.
---

Funbazooka posted...

Marxism can't gain members and supporters unless they brainwash naive students.

That's not true. Graduates who fail at life are also drawn to it because it ensures other people's money is distributed to them so they don't have to earn it themselves.
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Your understanding of those things Jesus said is off, in either case.

2) He told people who wanted to be his immediate disciples that they had to give up what they had and follow him. We can't do that anymore since Jesus isn't around to preach anymore.

I'm laughing because of that whole "the poor shall always be with you" bit.

Also how in your first point I mean. The most notable rich follower was Judas and generally he's reviled even ignoring the whole "sold out Jesus for a few pieces of silver" thing.
---

19? The hell man. No.
---

gunplagirl posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Your understanding of those things Jesus said is off, in either case.

2) He told people who wanted to be his immediate disciples that they had to give up what they had and follow him. We can't do that anymore since Jesus isn't around to preach anymore.

I'm laughing because of that whole "the poor shall always be with you" bit.

Also how in your first point I mean. The most notable rich follower was Judas and generally he's reviled even ignoring the whole "sold out Jesus for a few pieces of silver" thing.

You clearly didn't understand what "the poor shall always be with you" is about. He literally told someone that when she spent her money on oils to wash his feet and the Pharisees bashed her for not "helping da poor" instead.

And there were rich apostles and disciples throughout the new testament who supported missionaries and other believers. There was no indictment against being rich in the new testament.
---

Hit it and quit it.

shockthemonkey posted...

Unless camels used to be the size of thread, Jesus definitely said that the rich aint getting into heaven.

Actually, thread is still thicker than the eye of a needle.

And fluffy just proved my point about greed for the tuition bit. As well as a major misunderstanding of what insurance actually is/ does. To tl;dr it's basically that they negotiate with hospitals or networks for set prices on things and hospitals as a result raise their prices so that when they negotiate, they get more. Think of it like a reverse version of those lawsuits that start out seeking 3 million dollars then ultimately settle for a half million and most of that goes to the lawyer.
---

Daffadilio posted...

19? The hell man. No.

yeah I'm not sure how old TC is but at my age I would date someone who was 19 if they were a Marxist. I think 19 is my lower limit though
---

The healthier a population is, the cheaper it is to insure that population. That isn't really disputable. It's common sense.

Jesus used hyperbole and metaphors all the time in his sermons. No one understood that to mean that you shouldn't be rich, except for the Marxists who hate the idea of someone else having more money than them.
---

Jesus is about loving others and God

Marx is the total opposite of that
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

gunplagirl posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Your understanding of those things Jesus said is off, in either case.

2) He told people who wanted to be his immediate disciples that they had to give up what they had and follow him. We can't do that anymore since Jesus isn't around to preach anymore.

I'm laughing because of that whole "the poor shall always be with you" bit.

Also how in your first point I mean. The most notable rich follower was Judas and generally he's reviled even ignoring the whole "sold out Jesus for a few pieces of silver" thing.

You clearly didn't understand what "the poor shall always be with you" is about. He literally told someone that when she spent her money on oils to wash his feet and the Pharisees bashed her for not "helping da poor" instead.

And there were rich apostles and disciples throughout the new testament who supported missionaries and other believers. There was no indictment against being rich in the new testament.

You totally missed it. He was okay with her washing his feet because he's only there for the time. The pharisees who would rather have had the poor helped, at any point in time except while Jesus lived, would have been 100% right. But because Jesus was alive then and there, it was acceptable and even praiseworthy for her to have done such a thing, as she gave up what was it, a years worth of pay for the oils because the first and most genuine thought she had was to bless Jesus with zero semblance of shame in how she would do so.
---

gunplagirl posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

gunplagirl posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Your understanding of those things Jesus said is off, in either case.

2) He told people who wanted to be his immediate disciples that they had to give up what they had and follow him. We can't do that anymore since Jesus isn't around to preach anymore.

I'm laughing because of that whole "the poor shall always be with you" bit.

Also how in your first point I mean. The most notable rich follower was Judas and generally he's reviled even ignoring the whole "sold out Jesus for a few pieces of silver" thing.

You clearly didn't understand what "the poor shall always be with you" is about. He literally told someone that when she spent her money on oils to wash his feet and the Pharisees bashed her for not "helping da poor" instead.

And there were rich apostles and disciples throughout the new testament who supported missionaries and other believers. There was no indictment against being rich in the new testament.

You totally missed it. He was okay with her washing his feet because he's only there for the time. The pharisees who would rather have had the poor helped, at any point in time except while Jesus lived, would have been 100% right. But because Jesus was alive then and there, it was acceptable and even praiseworthy for her to have done such a thing, as she gave up what was it, a years worth of pay for the oils because the first and most genuine thought she had was to bless Jesus with zero semblance of shame in how she would do so.

Sure, that's obvious. And the same thing applies in general - you don't just strip yourself or others of everything they have and make them poor in some attempt to help the poor. There is a time and place for everything.

At no point did Jesus teach that saving money and aiming to grow your net worth is wrong.
---

Also it's really bizarre how some of you are latching on to Jesus when you think he's a Marxist, but yet are nowhere to be found when people reference what Jesus said about sin and morality.
---

Again, Jesus couldn't be a Marxist if Marx wouldn't even be a thing for hundreds of years. Attributions matter a lot.
---

You gonna address post #35?
---

Y'all need to read up on liberation theology
---