Board 8 > It is time for gun reform

(+) Yeah! (+)

What are your ideas regarding it?
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lets sell more guns. Market shootings as a mental health issue while making it more difficult for people to actually obtain psychological help and instead just sell more guns while the public slowly forgets about the issue.
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Honestly? No idea. Im not qualified to make any serious plans about this.

A good first step is probably making sure our politicians arent beholden to organizations like the nra
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Too late for any major reform to happen unfortunately The gun situation is so far out of hand that nothing can reign it back in.
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Outlaw all guns.
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Let's melt all the guns and reform them into other objects
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Lucavi000 posted...

Too late for any major reform to happen unfortunately The gun situation is so far out of hand that nothing can reign it back in.

Doing nothing is definitely the best choice, you're right
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People that are determined to kill other people will still find a way to get guns no matter what kind of reform there might be.
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I think we should just argue about guns on a message board for the rest of our lives, using the same arguements (with some zingers thrown in that we saw our side use on social media), never understand the other side, and end up dying of hypertension
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Id prefer no guns at all and the police to be armed with stun guns only.

The only exception would be special (rare) police tasks forces that would be armed for specific times of need.

.

Does that contradict the beliefs that existed when America was founded?

Sure, but so did abolishing slavery and the advent of civil rights across races and genders.

We dont have to adhere to the exactly specific ideals of 240~ years ago. We can aim for better ideals that are more relevant in the current era.
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We need to support politicians that agree in the first place we need gun reform at all

Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

I know you are probably being facetious but there are people who seriously think this.
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pxlated posted...

Lucavi000 posted...

Too late for any major reform to happen unfortunately The gun situation is so far out of hand that nothing can reign it back in.

Doing nothing is definitely the best choice, you're right

What are you gonna do? There will never be an outlaw on guns in the US. No one would stand for it. Stricter laws are always shot down.

Blame the forefathers.

Something needs to be done, yes. It's a little too late to really enact anything drastic though as it will only cause strife and discord among all of the citizens. Who knows what that could escalate to given the fact that we know that there are 2nd amendment activists out there who will literally KILL anyone who tries to take their weapons.
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Underleveled posted...

Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

I know you are probably being facetious but there are people who seriously think this.

I am one such person.

It has worked to decrease violent deaths in other countries, it could work here. Why should a desire to possess guns outweigh the measurable value of human lives?
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

It has worked to decrease violent deaths in other countries, it could work here. Why should a desire to possess guns outweigh the measurable value of human lives?

It certainly fixed the problem when we banned alcohol.

oh wait
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guns protect more human lives than they kill in the US. if that's your value standard, the status quo is far superior.

and gun reform ain't needed, social issues are the problem.
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Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

Cause if guns are illegal criminals surely wont use them anymore

I mean we banned drugs good thing no one can get them anymore. Oh wait. They're everywhere
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It has worked to decrease violent deaths in other countries, it could work here. Why should a desire to possess guns outweigh the measurable value of human lives?

It certainly fixed the problem when we banned alcohol.

oh wait

Hey now booze is great dont start hating on booze. Wine was good enough for jesus and America loves them some jesus
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

It certainly fixed the problem when we banned alcohol.

oh wait

Im dying to hear the parallels here.

Or are you implying that the same corn farmers who made moonshine during prohibition are going to turn their corn into guns in the event of a gun ban?

.

Im not saying gun ban or bust. Id accept measurable restrictions that help reduce incidents.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It has worked to decrease violent deaths in other countries, it could work here. Why should a desire to possess guns outweigh the measurable value of human lives?

It certainly fixed the problem when we banned alcohol.

oh wait

Your average person can make their own alcohol. Can they make their own gun?
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FlyingForever posted...

Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

Cause if guns are illegal criminals surely wont use them anymore

I mean we banned drugs good thing no one can get them anymore. Oh wait. They're everywhere

Under that logic, why have any laws at all?
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Underleveled posted...

Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

I know you are probably being facetious but there are people who seriously think this.

I'm not.
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FlyingForever posted...

Cause if guns are illegal criminals surely wont use them anymore

You are right the occasional criminal would get his hands on the occasional gun.

But overall a lot less criminals would have access to a lot less guns.

Are you saying its not a valid solution just because of the rare exception?
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FlyingForever posted...

Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

Cause if guns are illegal criminals surely wont use them anymore

I mean we banned drugs good thing no one can get them anymore. Oh wait. They're everywhere

by this logic, all drugs should be legal

I mean if people can still potentially get them, what's the point?
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Also if you make guns illegal, there pool of guns becomes much smaller, so thinking that "anyone could get one if they want to" becomes less likely.
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Shaduln posted...

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It has worked to decrease violent deaths in other countries, it could work here. Why should a desire to possess guns outweigh the measurable value of human lives?

It certainly fixed the problem when we banned alcohol.

oh wait

Your average person can make their own alcohol. Can they make their own gun?

With the way 3D printers are advancing? Very likely.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

FlyingForever posted...

Cause if guns are illegal criminals surely wont use them anymore

You are right the occasional criminal would get his hands on the occasional gun.

But overall a lot less criminals would have access to a lot less guns.

Are you saying its not a valid solution just because of the rare exception?

It's an easy "solution but its merely a bandaid.

Just because something goes from legal to illegal doesn't mean it's any harder to get ahold of.
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Johnbobb posted...

FlyingForever posted...

Shaduln posted...

Outlaw all guns.

Cause if guns are illegal criminals surely wont use them anymore ??

I mean we banned drugs good thing no one can get them anymore. Oh wait. They're everywhere

by this logic, all drugs should be legal

I mean if people can still potentially get them, what's the point?

Well I might also agree on that topic but that's another topic.
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Criminals will always find ways to break laws, and our country already has so many guns there is no way to fix the problem. Thr country is beyond saving. May as well just get rid of all laws and give everyone guns and just speed up the process by having everyone kill each other

Vote the party of the purge in 2020
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Shaduln posted...

Your average person can make their own alcohol. Can they make their own gun?

Not the point.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Im dying to hear the parallels here.

The parallel is that it didn't solve the problem - it worsened it. Once you give something and then take it away, people want to have it more. They crave it. With alcohol, it's an internal craving; with guns, it's a mental craving, a desire to be "cool."

Bad guys being the only ones to have guns will worsen the problem since people won't be able to defend themselves. The illegality of guns will make them less afraid of law-abiding citizens and the repercussions of committing crimes. It's basic logic.
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Shaduln posted...

Your average person can make their own alcohol. Can they make their own gun?

Unfortunately 3D printing is changing the answer to this. but with a gun ban law you could outlaw the 3d blueprints files for functional guns and bust people for having or distributing those files.

But yeah you won't have millions of farmers capable of widespread gun manufacturing like with moonshine.
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when are people going to start pushing for prohibition already? You know how many alcohol related deaths happen in the United States?
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Johnbobb posted...

by this logic, all drugs should be legal

I mean if people can still potentially get them, what's the point?

I heard that Portugal legalized all drugs and it actually improved the problem after a few years. I think that was largely due to fewer people trying them out and being "rebellious." But don't quote me on that reason why. I verified the Portugal part, however.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

I think we should just argue about guns on a message board for the rest of our lives, using the same arguements (with some zingers thrown in that we saw our side use on social media), never understand the other side, and end up dying of hypertension

We should definitely have big ole sticks up our asses yes. Good work.
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Props to corrik on the successful bait
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guffguy89 posted...

when are people going to start pushing for prohibition already? You know how many alcohol related deaths happen in the United States?

Majority of those are people dying from alcohol consumption (their own fault) or drunk driving (again, a choice)

It's not like beer walks the streets and kills people
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

The parallel is that it didn't solve the problem - it worsened it. Once you give something and then take it away, people want to have it more.

Regardless of their "want" to have it, less people would have them and gun deaths would decrease. The numbers would speak for themselves.

You are giving me an emotional answer that completely disregards statistics.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Bad guys being the only ones to have guns will worsen the problem since people won't be able to defend themselves.

Very seldom is a violent situation resolved through a "good guy with a gun". Has ot ever happened? Yes. But does it happen frequently? Not remotely.

So you'd have less good guy with a gun preventing gun deaths, but you'd have a lot less situations on the whole so the overall total of deaths goes way down.

What im saying: guns are responsible for 100% of gun deaths

What you are saying: well yeah but 2% of the time someone else with a gun prevents some of the gun deaths.

Those numbers do not work out in your favor. Put emotion aside.
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pxlated posted...

Props to corrik on the successful bait

My original post was just the Quirrell "TROLL IN THE DUNGEON" GIF >_>

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Regardless of their "want" to have it, less people would have them and gun deaths would decrease. The numbers would speak for themselves.

This is incorrect.

Very seldom is a violent situation resolved through a "good guy with a gun". Has ot ever happened? Yes. But does it happen frequently? Not remotely.

So you'd have less good guy with a gun preventing gun deaths, but you'd have a lot less situations on the whole so the overall total of deaths goes way down.

What im saying: guns are responsible for 100% of gun deaths

You misunderstood my point. My point is not that good guys stop bad guys. It's that bad guys would have no fear if only cops could legally have guns. There's no chance they get killed or threatened that way if they have a gun and nobody else can.

Blaming the gun instead of the finger is also quite hilarious. You seem to think that banning guns will stop bad guys from finding ways to get them. You are naive to think that.
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Quite the fear mongering you have going on there andy.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

This is incorrect.

Please cite a first world country that outlawed firearms and it caused an INCREASE in gun related deaths.

I'll wait.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Please cite a first world country that outlawed firearms and it caused an INCREASE in gun related deaths.

I can name several that increased in tyranny
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If we didn't see a change after 20 children were murdered in Sandy Hook, chances are we're never going to see any meaningful change. Mass Shootings are just our new reality. We'll never actually do anything about it because people love their guns more than they love other people's children.
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pxlated posted...

Props to corrik on the successful bait

It is not bait.
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I think that you can't just outlaw guns. No one is going to turn in all their guns. It is an amendment with huge political support. We don't have the proper borders to stop a black market of guns.

So what is the answer?

In a perfect world, I would say all guns are kept at police stations under a lock and key. You can take your gun out for a set amount of time based upon your permit you have. Say 16 hours for a low permit holder in order to go hunting or go to a shooting range. Maybe if you have a special medical evaluation and permit, you can take it for a week for say a hunting trip. However, guns cannot just be kept at your home or on you without police having given you your gun. Thus, eliminates crimes of passion for the most part.
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get rid of pointless restrictions so that gun wielding criminals will have the fear of being shot down immediately when they try dumb shit that only works in gun free zones
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Gun reform isn't going to stop premeditated gun violence very much

Gun reform could definitely stop crimes of passion/spur of the moment kind of things. Making it a lot less easy to randomly shoot somebody because you don't have a gun on you or can't just immediately go home and grab one would likely cause such people to not go to the effort of tracking down a gun in that moment.

The answer isn't "No guns," but acting like nothing can be changed to have any impact at all, period, is dumb.
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Well if you're talking about the Jacksonville shooting, I don't see why the contestant was allowed to bring a gun into the event in the first place. Maybe they should have had and enforced a no gun policy to prevent sore losers like him from misbehaving?
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psaltery posted...

Well if you're talking about the Jacksonville shooting, I don't see why the contestant was allowed to bring a gun into the event in the first place. Maybe they should have had and enforced a no gun policy to prevent sore losers like him from misbehaving?

Let's be real here - I'm sure they didn't knowingly let a person bring a gun in.
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MariaTaylor posted...

get rid of pointless restrictions so that gun wielding criminals will have the fear of being shot down immediately when they try dumb shit that only works in gun free zones

How many of these shooters end up killed or killed themselves. Most aren't exactly planning on life after the shooting.

Leafeon13N posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

get rid of pointless restrictions so that gun wielding criminals will have the fear of being shot down immediately when they try dumb shit that only works in gun free zones

How many of these shooters end up killed or killed themselves. Most aren't exactly planning on life after the shooting.

yeah so would you rather have them end up dead immediately or dead after killing 10 people

hmmmm
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