Current Events > I'm a new Smash player, but have spent about an hour with Ultimate.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've played on Melee before, but only very briefly, and also a long time ago.

Not sure what to think. Here are some thoughts I've had about it.

- Beating enemies is surprisingly tough. I thought it would've be too hard to knock them down off the bottom of the screen, but I didn't really realise that the characters have mid-air jumps, which make this task a lot, lot harder.

- Jumping by pressing up on the left analogue stick is...strange. I assumed you just pressed a button, but I guess not.

- I'm annoyed that I played for a while on Classic Mode, and beat it as 2 different characters, and yet haven't unlocked anyone new. I mean, there are meant to be something like 70 characters, but I'm still stuck with the first 8.

- Graphics are excellent, proper 9th gen graphics, which is very welcome. Most Switch games I've played look a bit unimpressive, so this is a really good thing.

- The combat arenas seem pretty interesting, much better than most fighting games series. Multi-tiered, slopes, places to fall off, and various crazy stuff happening. Plus, plenty of interesting nods to series I like. I must be the only person who's glad there's a Pac-Land level.

- The menus are sometimes confusing. I spent about 10 minutes trying to begin playing the tournament mode, but couldn't actually get it to start. This was disappointing.

Well, that's my basic opinion. Of course, you would probably have to play the series for hours to really get a feel for it, and I expect it takes 100s or hours to become an expert or master. Overall, pretty underwhelmed. I know people say it's stupid to buy for just single-player, but it should be fun anyway. What do you think about what I've said?

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What control are you using?
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You can press a button to jump. It's preferred since it's easier to short hop that way. I like to use Y I think it is. W/e the button is above the A on the GameCube controller.

And X on the switch pro
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Standard Switch controller.

I prefer to use the standard controller for a console, although CE has this fascination with buying alternate controllers.

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You can disable jumping with up. I do that to make up tilts easier.
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Unlocking through playing and beating classic mode is probably the most consistent way to unlock new characters. Its odd that youre not finding anyone new.

Also, there is an alternate way to jump via pressing X or Y on the controller. Honestly I prefer that to up on the analog.
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How does the unlocking in Classic Mode actually work? Do you have to beat it with specific characters? Do you have to get a certain number of accumulative points?
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My suggestions are to turn off control stick jumping and to change the right stick from smash attacks to tilt attacks. Made controlling characters much easier.
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Sunhawk posted...

How does the unlocking in Classic Mode actually work? Do you have to beat it with specific characters? Do you have to get a certain number of accumulative points?

Are you in classic mode where you pick a character and fight through a themed series of enemies and then a big boss? Or Smash Mode where you just pick characters to play as a d fight?
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Go to your control options and disable Tap Jump. It might take a while to get used to, but you won't regret it TC.

VerisimiIitude posted...

Unlocking through playing and beating classic mode is probably the most consistent way to unlock new characters. Its odd that youre not finding anyone new.

Also this. Maybe it's just my luck, but there's always a character battle after Classic Mode.
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First thing I always do is disable stick jump. Character unlocks have a 10 minute or so cooldown timer. So youll have to wait a bit in between unlocks. Wait 10 mins, fight a battle, get a new challenger, repeat.

If youre having trouble knocking people out, you need to do more damage to them. Dont expect to knock them out with smash attacks at low percentages. Soften them up with weaker fast attacks, and then finish them off with a big attack.
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Maybe the new patch changed the unlocking method? I just did 1 fight and got a challenge once I beat that character I rebooted the game and did the same took me about 2 hours to get everyone like that
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He didn't unlock anyone in classic mode because he used continues. You have to beat it without a continue.
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Sunhawk posted...

How does the unlocking in Classic Mode actually work? Do you have to beat it with specific characters? Do you have to get a certain number of accumulative points?

You can spike or meteor smash an enemy when theyre off stage to kill them off the bottom. You can gimp an enemys recovery with certain moves to keep them from successfully making it back onto the stage. You can also just hit them into the side blast zone from offstage if your character is good enough in the air

Also turn off tap jump in your controller options. Idk why thats turned on by default but it literally removes 2 attacking options for no reason (up tilt and up smash - except with the right stick but still)
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

He didn't unlock anyone in classic mode because he used continues. You have to beat it without a continue.

False

Sunhawk may have just lost to the challenge fights

Its not a foreign possibility considering hes basically new to smash
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Geez, Sunhawk. I remember seeing your posts back in like 2002-2004. Nice to see some old names around. Wish I still had my old accounts but I don't even remember what they were back then. =|

Anyways, I thought I'd get really into Smash this time around. Always dabbled, never cared to jump in. I've played Ultimate for a couple hours. It's a fine game, but in the end, I suppose I'm just too old to care about competing, especially with the way the online has been handled.

MJOLNRVII posted...

You can disable jumping with up. I do that to make up tilts easier.

wow i had no idea you could do this lol

also heres a tip for a cheesy way to unlock characters:

- go to smash mode
- create a rule set for 1 stock & level 1 enemies
- play a 1v1 match on an easy stage so you can beat it really quick
- after you complete the match, hit the home button on the switch and close out the game
- now go back into the game and play another 1 stock easy 1v1 battle. after you complete that battle you'll get challenged by a new character
- lather, rinse, repeat
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Okay everyone, thanks for various advice and information. I've been too busy playing Sega Mega Drive Classics Compilation to play this more than briefly, but I doubt I'll get a new game and only spend 1 hour in it.

Chroniatry posted...

Geez, Sunhawk. I remember seeing your posts back in like 2002-2004. Nice to see some old names around. Wish I still had my old accounts but I don't even remember what they were back then. =|

Anyways, I thought I'd get really into Smash this time around. Always dabbled, never cared to jump in. I've played Ultimate for a couple hours. It's a fine game, but in the end, I suppose I'm just too old to care about competing, especially with the way the online has been handled.

Yeah, I made this account in 2002. I've pretty much been a regular ever since, except the occasional absence. I take it you've been away from the board for a while, maybe a few years?

@Chroniatry

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Sunhawk posted...

Okay everyone, thanks for various advice and information. I've been too busy playing Sega Mega Drive Classics Compilation to play this more than briefly, but I doubt I'll get a new game and only spend 1 hour in it.

Chroniatry posted...

Geez, Sunhawk. I remember seeing your posts back in like 2002-2004. Nice to see some old names around. Wish I still had my old accounts but I don't even remember what they were back then. =|

Anyways, I thought I'd get really into Smash this time around. Always dabbled, never cared to jump in. I've played Ultimate for a couple hours. It's a fine game, but in the end, I suppose I'm just too old to care about competing, especially with the way the online has been handled.

Yeah, I made this account in 2002. I've pretty much been a regular ever since, except the occasional absence. I take it you've been away from the board for a while, maybe a few years?

@Chroniatry

Yeah, I get bored with usernames and tend to make new ones, then in time I forget what the older ones ever were and I definitely don't remember their passwords. It's like a weird OCD thing or something. I have a Golden Sun FAQ up under Gravity81688 and the oldest one I can recall is MevSly and ColdFaxx from 2002-2003, but I'll never be able to get into those. :(

I used to visit the boards every day, at least to get my karma in, but over the past five years or so I've been really slacking. =\

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

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Sunhawk posted...

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

First of all, Smash isnt a 3D fighter (and lots would say its not a fighting game at all), having 3D models instead of 2D sprites doesnt make it a 3D fighter. All action happens on a 2D plane. Tekken is a 3D fighter, SFV uses 3D models as well and is still clearly a 2D fighter

Secondly, as far as attacks, each character has 4 specials (neutral, side, up, down), a jab (neutral attack), a dashing attack, 3 tilt attacks (up, down, side), 3 smash attacks (up, down, side), 5 aerial attacks (neutral, up, down, forward, back), 4 grabs (up, down, back, forward)

Why did the game think it wasn't worth listing all those other attacks, then?

This series really hates new players, doesn't it?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs3ir7VWdik" data-time="

I feel like videos should help a bit more with certain questions about controls. You can also just play through World of Light to get all the characters why learning the game at the same time.

Sunhawk posted...

Why did the game think it wasn't worth listing all those other attacks, then?

This series really hates new players, doesn't it?

If you go to the movelist in a game like SFV it doesnt tell you the basic attacks that all characters share either, youre expected to know/figure it out since they are so basic, you wont see light punch, medium punch, hard punch, etc... listed in everyones movelist. It will only tell you the unique special moves/supers/command normals etc...

But don't smash and aerial attacks, etc. vary between characters?
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Sunhawk posted...

But don't smash and aerial attacks, etc. vary between characters?

every characters hard punch, medium punch, light punch etc.. are also different in SFV/any other fighting game too. the game expects you to know basic attacks.

Sunhawk posted...

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

The special moves are mostly intrinsically different from the numerous A-button moves. Take Mario, for example. B is fireball (projectile), Side-B is cape (reflector + turns the enemy around, is good for gimping recovery since it doesnt knock enemies out of the helpless post-recovery state), Down-B is FLUUD (can also gimp enemies and push them away since it does 0 damage) and Up-B is Super Jump Punch (Marios recovery move). Thing is, all of these moves have properties that rarely, if ever, show up on the A moves. Up-B is usually the recovery move (sometimes theres no recovery move for characters like Yoshi and Jigglypuff, sometimes theres multiple)
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Ruddager posted...

Sunhawk posted...

But don't smash and aerial attacks, etc. vary between characters?

every characters hard punch, medium punch, light punch etc.. are also different in SFV/any other fighting game too. the game expects you to know basic attacks.

Smash players can be so condescending. :(

Well, maybe I'll put in some more hours tomorrow or something. I guess just play Classic Mode as different characters, perhaps. It's hard to know what to actually DO in a fighting game, when just playing by yourself. Practice, and unlock things, I guess.

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Sunhawk posted...

But don't smash and aerial attacks, etc. vary between characters?

Yes but there's not really much to say about them. Generally they are just a generic hit in that direction, very self explanatory, and a moves list would not help at all.

The moves list is for special attacks (used with the b button) is not for controls sake, but because they often have special properties. Like Marth's neutral B breaks shields, Incineroars down B powers up the next move, Luigis up B has a special hit box on the start up frames.
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Alpha218 posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

The special moves are mostly intrinsically different from the numerous A-button moves. Take Mario, for example. B is fireball (projectile), Side-B is cape (reflector + turns the enemy around, is good for gimping recovery since it doesnt knock enemies out of the helpless post-recovery state), Down-B is FLUUD (can also gimp enemies and push them away since it does 0 damage) and Up-B is Super Jump Punch (Marios recovery move). Thing is, all of these moves have properties that rarely, if ever, show up on the A moves. Up-B is usually the recovery move (sometimes theres no recovery move for characters like Yoshi and Jigglypuff, sometimes theres multiple)

I must admit, I like Mario's moves. Fireball was a logical long-range attack, but FLUDD was cool as well. I'm surprised they put a nod to Sunshine in there, given how it's one of the least popular 3D main series Mario games. When did they add that move in? Has it been there for a long time?

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Sunhawk posted...

But don't smash and aerial attacks, etc. vary between characters?

I mean, do you want to describe in detail every single basic attack in every direction.

"Donkey Kong's down tilt is a good range, good damage slap attack that hits close to the ground in one direction"

Do you really think we need that for every single attack? Just play the character a few times if you want to know that detailed info about them. The reason specials are listed is because their effects vary drastically from char to char and aren't always clear.

95% of all basic attacks are gonna be some form of, "does an attack in that direction"

Meanwhile, with specials the difference could be as big as "reflects a projectilee" or "grabs and body slams opponent"
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For reference, heres the combination for MOST of the other moves, a few characters have a little more (Robin can do smash attacks midair, Ryu and Ken can do Street Fighter inputs for special moves, etc)

(U = Up, D = Down, F = Forward, B = Backwards - F and B refer to the direction your character is facing)

Jab/Jab combo
- A

Tilts (tilt the stick and then press A to do a tilt)
- U-tilt
- F-tilt
- D-tilt

Smash attacks (press the stick in the given direction at the same time you press A. These attacks can be charged for more power. You can also use the right stick for Smash attacks)
- U-Smash
- F-Smash
- D-Smash

Shield (Hold the shield button on the ground)
- Foward or backwards while holding shield = roll
- Down while holding shield = spot dodge

Grab (Press shield + A, or the grab button to grab the enemy. Higher % means it takes the enemy longer to mash out of it, giving you more time to pummel before you have to throw)
- A (Pummel)
- U-Throw
- F-Throw
- B-Throw
- D-Throw

Aerials (attacks is the air)
- Neutral (N-air, no directional input)
- U-air
- F-air
- B-air
- D-air
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Sunhawk posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

The special moves are mostly intrinsically different from the numerous A-button moves. Take Mario, for example. B is fireball (projectile), Side-B is cape (reflector + turns the enemy around, is good for gimping recovery since it doesnt knock enemies out of the helpless post-recovery state), Down-B is FLUUD (can also gimp enemies and push them away since it does 0 damage) and Up-B is Super Jump Punch (Marios recovery move). Thing is, all of these moves have properties that rarely, if ever, show up on the A moves. Up-B is usually the recovery move (sometimes theres no recovery move for characters like Yoshi and Jigglypuff, sometimes theres multiple)

I must admit, I like Mario's moves. Fireball was a logical long-range attack, but FLUDD was cool as well. I'm surprised they put a nod to Sunshine in there, given how it's one of the least popular 3D main series Mario games. When did they add that move in? Has it been there for a long time?

FLUUD has been in there since Brawl, so like mid 2000s.

He used to have the tornado move that Luigi and Dr Mario have
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Alright, alright. Calm down, everyone.

To be fair, something like Virtua Fighter 3 had lots of minor moves that were just slight variations on each other, and it still listed a lot of attacks / moves for each character.

I hated that game, though. I hate all Virtua Fighters I've played. The pathetic, tiny variations on moves is so silly. You spend ages learning some moves, and they barely help you win matched at all. One move might do 5% more damage than another move. I don't see how many people can be SO purist that they enjoy the VF games.

At least DOA has boobs bouncing around. And Street Fighter has cool special moves. And Smash has platform-style environments.

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Alpha218 posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

The special moves are mostly intrinsically different from the numerous A-button moves. Take Mario, for example. B is fireball (projectile), Side-B is cape (reflector + turns the enemy around, is good for gimping recovery since it doesnt knock enemies out of the helpless post-recovery state), Down-B is FLUUD (can also gimp enemies and push them away since it does 0 damage) and Up-B is Super Jump Punch (Marios recovery move). Thing is, all of these moves have properties that rarely, if ever, show up on the A moves. Up-B is usually the recovery move (sometimes theres no recovery move for characters like Yoshi and Jigglypuff, sometimes theres multiple)

I must admit, I like Mario's moves. Fireball was a logical long-range attack, but FLUDD was cool as well. I'm surprised they put a nod to Sunshine in there, given how it's one of the least popular 3D main series Mario games. When did they add that move in? Has it been there for a long time?

FLUUD has been in there since Brawl, so like mid 2000s.

He used to have the tornado move that Luigi and Dr Mario have

They haven't changed it back yet?

Well, Smash is still dead to me then (at least post melee).
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FLUUD is objectively better to have than Mario Tornado (which got shifted to his dair anyways so whats there to even complain about)

It makes Marios ability to secure some kills that other characters cant just insane
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IloveJesus posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Here's a stupid question.

I've looked briefly through move lists, and the characters I looked for seemed to have 4 special moves each. Is this it? Or all the other moves not listed? One time when I asked, on CE, about the Smash games, someone told me each character has dozens of moves. So, are the listed moves just the best ones or something?

I mean...3D fighters usually have lots of moves per characters. It's more 2D fighters that only have a few moves per character.

The special moves are mostly intrinsically different from the numerous A-button moves. Take Mario, for example. B is fireball (projectile), Side-B is cape (reflector + turns the enemy around, is good for gimping recovery since it doesnt knock enemies out of the helpless post-recovery state), Down-B is FLUUD (can also gimp enemies and push them away since it does 0 damage) and Up-B is Super Jump Punch (Marios recovery move). Thing is, all of these moves have properties that rarely, if ever, show up on the A moves. Up-B is usually the recovery move (sometimes theres no recovery move for characters like Yoshi and Jigglypuff, sometimes theres multiple)

I must admit, I like Mario's moves. Fireball was a logical long-range attack, but FLUDD was cool as well. I'm surprised they put a nod to Sunshine in there, given how it's one of the least popular 3D main series Mario games. When did they add that move in? Has it been there for a long time?

FLUUD has been in there since Brawl, so like mid 2000s.

He used to have the tornado move that Luigi and Dr Mario have

They haven't changed it back yet?

Well, Smash is still dead to me then (at least post melee).

Thats why Dr. Mario and Luigi completely outclass regular Mario, the tornado is a much better move

Alpha218 posted...

FLUUD is objectively better to have than Mario Tornado (which got shifted to his dair anyways so whats there to even complain about)

It makes Marios ability to secure some kills that other characters cant just insane

You can big it up all you want but it's FLUUD and I want nothing to do with it.
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Mario was high tier in Smash 4 so no

Jurys out on Ultimate while the metagame settles and patches come out, but as it stands Dr Mario has one of the worst recoveries in the game even with Doctor Tornado giving him the height he needs to ledge grab. Luigis tornado doesnt give him height at all anymore
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Alpha218 posted...

Mario was high tier in Smash 4 so no

Jurys out on Ultimate while the metagame settles and patches come out, but as it stands Dr Mario has one of the worst recoveries in the game even with Doctor Tornado giving him the height he needs to ledge grab. Luigis tornado doesnt give him height at all anymore

To be fair, Luigi gets a tether recovery now. Seems like a lot of characters have been nerfed in some ways, but buffed in others to compensate. Except Dr. Mario lmao.
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He does not have a tether recovery. It doesnt latch onto the ledge. Its still a nice buff giving him the Poltergust for grabbing (and I think its now the safest grab in the game based on frame data too) but they didnt take it that far.
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Oh I just assumed that annoying pos had everything
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