Current Events > Women outperform men after Japanese medical schools stop rigging exams

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/19/women-outperform-men-after-japan-medical-school-stops-rigging-exam-scores

Women have outperformed their male counterparts in entrance examinations for a medical school in Japan that last year admitted rigging admission procedures to give men an unfair advantage.

Juntendo University in Tokyo said that of the 1,679 women who took its medical school entrance exam earlier this year, 139, or 8.28%, had passed. The pass rate among 2,202 male candidates was 7.72%.

It was the first time in seven years that the pass rate among women was higher than among men, the Asahi Shimbun reported.

The university attributed the exam results to its decision to abolish the unfair treatment of female applicants after last years revelations.

Juntendo was one of several medical schools that were found to have manipulated exam results to give first-time male applicants an advantage over women and others who had previously failed the exam.

The dean of the medical school, Hiroyuki Daida, initially attempted to justify the practice, saying women matured faster than men and had better communication skills. In some ways, this was a measure designed to help male applicants, he told reporters.

The sexist admissions policy drew widespread criticism after the Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper revealed in August last year that Tokyo medical college had rigged exam scores for more than a decade to favour male candidates, citing concerns that women who went on to become doctors would leave the profession to have children.

Last month, the medical school said female applicants had performed slightly better than men this year after gender-based anomalies in the admissions procedure were removed.

The pass rate among women at Tokyo medical school was 20.4%, 0.4 percentage points higher than among male candidates, the university said, according to the Japan Times. The success rate the previous year, when the discriminatory marking practice was still in place, was just 2.9 % for women and 9% for men.

In 2016, women accounted for just 21.1% of all doctors in Japan, the lowest level among nations belonging to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Among G7 countries, Britain had the highest proportion, at 47.2%, followed by Germany, France and Canada.

The medical school scandal reinforced claims of institutional sexism in the Japanese workplace and education, frustrating efforts by the prime minister, Shinzo Abe, to create a society in which women can shine.

While womens representation in the workplace is rising, Japan compares poorly with other countries in promoting women to senior positions. Many female employees face discrimination when trying to return to work after giving birth.

Pretty shameful tbh
---

lol Juntendo
---

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.
---

Dyinglegacy posted...

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.

What a silly post.
---

AmericaTheBrave posted...

The dean of the medical school, Hiroyuki Daida, initially attempted to justify the practice, saying women matured faster than men and had better communication skills. In some ways, this was a measure designed to help male applicants, he told reporters.

Lol.
---

Dyinglegacy posted...

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.

This is stupid af.

What does empathy have to do with being able to correctly figure out, diagnose, and treat a disease.
---

Japan, slowly but surely being dragged kicking-and-screaming into the 21st century.
---

Solar_Crimson posted...

Japan, slowly but surely being dragged kicking-and-screaming into the 21st century.

early 20th*
---

Figures.
---

WrkHrdPlayHrdr posted...

This is stupid af.

What does empathy have to do with being able to correctly figure out, diagnose, and treat a disease.

... you're asking how being able to see things from the patient's perspective might help a doctor?

... what

...

no, nah, you're right, that does sound p dumb
---

cavalierking posted...

WrkHrdPlayHrdr posted...

This is stupid af.

What does empathy have to do with being able to correctly figure out, diagnose, and treat a disease.

... you're asking how being able to see things from the patient's perspective might help a doctor?

... what

...

no, nah, you're right, that does sound p dumb

yeah people are pretty clueless.

empathy is an important part of the process that can really help with the patient experience.

this is part of the reason why women really don't like having male doctors who are like "this is what the medical books say, good bye". Very male logic at play. There is a very important nurturing component that doctors SHOULD have.

Dyinglegacy posted...

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.

That's not what doctors do.

You're thinking of nursing.
---

AmericaTheBrave posted...

The dean of the medical school, Hiroyuki Daida, initially attempted to justify the practice, saying women matured faster than men and had better communication skills. In some ways, this was a measure designed to help male applicants, he told reporters.

lol affirmative action excuse

WrkHrdPlayHrdr posted...

Dyinglegacy posted...

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.

This is stupid af.

What does empathy have to do with being able to correctly figure out, diagnose, and treat a disease.

the part where you interact with the patient in order to figure out symptoms and medical history that tests will not reveal for you

and the part where you tell the patient that despite your best efforts they're going to die

i doubt that has much to do with this tiny percentile score gap though.
---

Dyinglegacy posted...

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.

---

Actually many western nursing programs are beginning to offer something like "affirmative action" for male students, since there's a severe lack of male caregivers in the field. Three common reasons this is considered an issue are:
- some male patients can become unruly to handle or sexually offensive towards female caregivers, while some women actually prefer male assistance
- some female caregivers show a gross amount of disconnect (LACK of empathy) towards male patients and fail at communicating with them
- it's statistically easier to find male caregivers willing to face crazy work conditions and longer shifts than female counterparts.

The nursing industry WANTS more male caregivers, but they're harder to come by compared to women.
---

bump
---

I don't want an empathetic doctor

I want a doctor who can tell me what the fuck is wrong with me and how the fuck to fix it

Then slap me for trying to tell him about a different thing I read online.

Seriously, give me House as a doctor any day. I'd rather someone who didn't get emotionally attached, so they can be objective. Leave empathy for the nurses and my family.
---

TreyFlowers posted...

I don't want an empathetic doctor

I want a doctor who can tell me what the fuck is wrong with me and how the fuck to fix it

Then slap me for trying to tell him about a different thing I read online.

Seriously, give me House as a doctor any day. I'd rather someone who didn't get emotionally attached, so they can be objective. Leave empathy for the nurses and my family.

Pretty sure House should've been fired many times over...
---

House definitely would have been fired many times irl lol
---

Especially when they found out he wasn't actually a doctor, but a British actor putting on an American accent.
---

Wait so what was the actual advantage? It said they gave men an advantage but did they say what it actually was?

I'm curious how they rigged it in men's favor.
---

All of you talking about empathy are thinking of nurses. Nurses are the ones that require empathy. They are the ones dealing one on one with the patients on a consistent basis, not doctors.
---

Maybe I'm working then.

I do know that out of the doctors I've had, one actually acted like she gave a damn about my well being and expressed general concern with hints of empathy. I felt encourged.

I preferred it over robot doctor.

*shrugs*
---

DeadBankerDream posted...

Dyinglegacy posted...

I always felt that medical professions were better suited for women. The whole nurturing thing and such. Not saying that men can't do it, it's just women tend to be better with empathy.

What a silly post.

Yeah, not really. What he says mirrors reality. Women almost always are more nurturing and better at empathizing than men.

To claim otherwise would be a silly statement.

Now, if you dont want it to be that way or dont like the ideathats fine, and within your right...but its not based on fact or reality.
---

Well the thing is...

Are women just naturally empathetic by default? Or are men just not raised to express empathy? A lot of people act as if a man showing too much emotion isn't a "real" man. That men aren't "supposed" to show emotions (Unless of course it's anger).

Meanwhile women were basically raised to be more emotional, and typically aren't mocked for crying over something that isn't the death of a loved one.

...Of course at the end of the day, it all depends on the individual. A man is certainly capable of empathy, a woman is certainly capable of being robotic.
---

Umbreon posted...

Well the thing is...

Are women just naturally empathetic by default? Or are men just not raised to express empathy? A lot of people act as if a man showing too much emotion isn't a "real" man. That men aren't "supposed" to show emotions (Unless of course it's anger).

Meanwhile women were basically raised to be more emotional, and typically aren't mocked for crying over something that isn't the death of a loved one.

...Of course at the end of the day, it all depends on the individual. A man is certainly capable of empathy, a woman is certainly capable of being robotic.

In my general experience, women focus more on feelings of a situation and talking through things, whereas men are more focused on solutions and outcomes. My wife gets frustrated because when she'd tell me about things that annoyed or upset her, I'd say "oh well it doesn't matter just do X and it fixes it". I've gotten a lot better at being empathetic and just talking through things with her, but when it's on the flip side, I dont tell her things to talk about how it makes me feel, I want her advice on how to fix something.
---

Certain medical professions suit women and certain medical professions suit men. To use a blanket statement is just silly. Women tend to go into pediatrics, OBGYN, nursing and family medicine specialties, while men tend to learn toward specialties that deals with urgent care, surgeries and men's health. Take it from someone who actually deals with medical records all day.

A lot of men in Japan are not doing well for obvious reasons. The men in Japan play too many games and watch too much anime. It's not surprising that women are doing better.
---

AmericaTheBrave posted...

The pass rate among women at Tokyo medical school was 20.4%, 0.4 percentage points higher than among male candidates, the university said, according to the Japan Times. The success rate the previous year, when the discriminatory marking practice was still in place, was just 2.9 % for women and 9% for men.

gender discrimination aside, am I reading this right that changing the marking scheme basically massively increased success rate for all students at the school? makes you wonder what exactly was going on before and what they changed it to
---

Endofall posted...

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

Certain medical professions suit women and certain medical professions suit men. To use a blanket statement is just silly. Women tend to go into pediatrics, OBGYN, nursing and family medicine specialties, while men tend to learn toward specialties that deals with urgent care, surgeries and men's health. Take it from someone who actually deals with medical records all day.

A lot of men in Japan are not doing well for obvious reasons. The men in Japan play too many games and watch too much anime. It's not surprising that women are doing better.

https://soranews24.com/2018/07/17/nearly-70-percent-of-young-japanese-women-self-identify-as-otaku-in-survey/

And that doesn't tell me anything. This will actually tell you something:

https://newzoo.com/insights/infographics/japan-games-market-2018/

In every statistic, men play more video games than women. Console & PC gamers tend to be more hardcore than mobile games and men outnumber women 2:1 in those categories.
---