Current Events > I feel the male suicide epidemic is only going to get worse.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm noticing a lot more talk of suicide and doom and gloom amongst men lately. A lot of guys I even work with who have families and stuff seem to have died inside and only seem to be continuing for their families.

Reddit is having suicide jokes pop up in completely innocuous subs, lots of dark and depressing talk creeping up everywhere.

The suicide rate among men is climbing.

I noticed a coworker friend of mine starting to exhibit the red flags(I've struggled with it most of my life, attempted befote too, but am in a stable solid place in life right now, so I can pick up on it). And started reaching out to him more and have been having him over for beers and to play games and watch stuff and talk.

The hell is going on with us men?
---

pres_madagascar posted...

The hell is going on with us men?

Depression sucks. I've never experienced it (or suicidal thoughts) personally, but given the culture of average men being unfuckable while average women get blasted by limitless chad dick, the inability of many shy/shut-in males to get positive interactions with women can't help.
---

Conflict posted...

Gobstoppers12 posted...

but given the culture of average men being unfuckable while average women get blasted by limitless chad dick

Yeah can you not come into a topic about a legitimate issue with this meme garbage thanks

Sorry, I'll solve depression and suicidal tendencies by having a serious discussion at 4 a.m. on gamefaqs.gamespot.com instead. My bad.
---

Im an above average looking guy and I just have no drive to mingle with the average pro-stupidity Kim K copycat woman. I just want substance, and variety, and some male contraception. I want sex to not be held as some sacrilege. I dont want there to be some cultural lowkey norm that were supposed to play along that Im trying to be friends and like only friends with women until suddenly sex is fine or something. I dont wanna have to lie to compete for sex either. And I dont want to really compete all that much with my species at all. Its fucking dumb and a waste of a life.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

pres_madagascar posted...

The hell is going on with us men?

Depression sucks. I've never experienced it (or suicidal thoughts) personally, but given the culture of average men being unfuckable while average women get blasted by limitless chad dick, the inability of many shy/shut-in males to get positive interactions with women can't help.

Blaming women for your own faults.

I've had significant mental issues including depression for most of my life that I get treatment for. I was born with a form of autism and couldn't socialize properly until my teen years(and still say weird shit all the time, to this day), I have the body of Seth Rogen and a painfully average face. Yet I've had relationships, hookups, all the normal experiences.

I promise you, you can improve those things man.
---

8-bit_Biceps posted...

Im an above average looking guy and I just have no drive to mingle with the average pro-stupidity Kim K copycat woman. I just want substance, and variety, and some male contraception. I want sex to not be held as some sacrilege. I dont want there to be some cultural lowkey norm that were supposed to play along that Im trying to be friends and like only friends with women until suddenly sex is fine or something. I dont wanna have to lie to compete for sex either. And I dont want to really compete all that much with my species at all. Its fucking dumb and a waste of a life.

Y'all, your worth in life should not be determined by whether you can get relationships/laid or not.

The fact that both main responses I've gotten in this topic so far are related to that is... Troubling.
---

pres_madagascar posted...

I promise you, you can improve those things man.

I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the kind of person who contemplates suicide. A lot of them blame rejection (either by society as a whole, or by women) when they do it or attempt it. Most of the time it's a chemical problem with the brain, other times it's their own "rational" thought process telling them they'd be better off dead.

I don't pretend to understand all suicidal people, but that's a significant chunk of them.
---

Gobstoppers12 posted...

pres_madagascar posted...

I promise you, you can improve those things man.

I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the kind of person who contemplates suicide. A lot of them blame rejection (either by society as a whole, or by women) when they do it or attempt it. Most of the time it's a chemical problem with the brain, other times it's their own "rational" thought process telling them they'd be better off dead.

I don't pretend to understand all suicidal people, but that's a significant chunk of them.

Yet many of the men who kill themselves have loving families and kids and shit.

Look at Chester Bennington, there's a video of him laughing and playing with his kids filmed mere hours before he took his life.
---

pres_madagascar posted...

Look at Chester Bennington, there's a video of him laughing and playing with his kids filmed mere hours before he took his life.

That's the chemical imbalance thing. You know, clinical depression. That's the one that's got nothing to do with "strength" or happiness, it's literally something that happens in somebody's brain which they cannot control without proper medications and therapy.
---

Society puts sex and wealth on a pedestal as the root of all happiness. Guys feel pressured to chase these over something that will actually make them happy and either succeed and find they are not satisfied or fail and think it means they are worthless.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

pres_madagascar posted...

Look at Chester Bennington, there's a video of him laughing and playing with his kids filmed mere hours before he took his life.

That's the chemical imbalance thing. You know, clinical depression. That's the one that's got nothing to do with "strength" or happiness, it's literally something that happens in somebody's brain which they cannot control without proper medications and therapy.

Uh no shit. I have it. I'm on 4 different meds.
---

Capitalism isn't helping things any
---

Im not too concerned about women like I used to be. I think another issue is that most women around 30 have kids too so its kind of underwhelming that there arent more women who are single with no kids like me.

The general problem is that the politics/law/leadership/economy of the country is moving stupid slow compared to the culture. And also there should just generally be a more collective mindset and less competition. More love, less fear. I think a lot of people dont know what they would do with their lives without a family or work. We are transitioning into a period where hardly anyone will have to work, but this will take decades to get through. Too many people are still attached to work and competition.

Also in the past people were way less woke relative to the political climate. Now people are more woke. exposed to so much more, yet have less opportunity to accomplish their dreams and goals to fulfill a meaningful life and make use of said opportunity.

The Internet is dangling all this fruit in front of us, showing us all that life can be and how much is really out there to enjoy, but we dont have as much opportunity to really make it. The market is less free too. Lots of things cause this depression epidemic I think.

16-BITTER posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Now thats what i call shitposting

I almost replied, but I've learned not to argue with that particular user.
---

JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

People can have meaningful discussions here as much as anywhere else at anytime. What they choose to discuss of course is up to them.

This is true, and how I choose to respond to it is up to me.

#SlamDunk
---

Rat Utopia Experiment

16-BITTER posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Now thats what i call shitposting

So you're denying that there is any connection between these suicides and the current cost of living, lack of advancement in most lines of work (especially in rural America), as well as the stagnation in wages over the last few decades?

It's simple. Men still feel like they have to be the breadwinner, and when they aren't able to flourish in these conditions, they internalize a lot of it and that creates a negative feedback loop. They think it's their fault that they can't do better, and end up getting more and more upset that they're not thriving when they're giving it everything they have, and eventually they just cross that tipping point. Go ahead, what's the mean age range, marital status, and financial income of most of the men committing suicide in America over the last decade.
---

We still have all the same socioeconomic problems we had 20 years ago but constant 24/7 social media access made personal interactions less of an occurrence and without that, we're feeling more detached and lonelier. It's all just talking to screens and no nurturing.

From a grander scale, America really doesn't give a shit about mental health of its citizens to fund clinics and departments devoted to that field.
---

16-BITTER posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Now thats what i call shitposting

I think the framework of capitalism deeply influences men's measure of self-worth even outside of their relation to women. If you're struggling under capitalism, you're seen as a failure. Nevermind that the very construction means that people will always be struggling under capitalism, even when it's not incentivizing the hording of wealth among fewer and fewer people.

It also prioritizes the material over the emotional, champions constant competition, and encourages excess well after the acquisition of more things stops contributing to ones happiness.
---

I think that life kinda objectively sucks as a human when ya think about it. We have these developed brains that long for purpose and that fantasize about ideal versions of reality and society. Then contrast that with the reality of the situation: that our purpose is still generally to try to just survive and reproduce and that we each have little effect on reality as a whole and dont even exist for very long in the grand scheme of things. Were also a social species that is increasingly putting barriers between people with our jumps in technology, resulting increased wealth, and the culture of independence.

So I mean, yeah...we can try and do what we can to find happiness in what we have, as I am trying to do, but the whole situation is still kinda garbage with a lot of internal conflict between our desires. Lol I think we have to realize that fact if were gonna successfully do anything about the suicides.
---

16-BITTER posted...

The underlying issue is how we handle/stigmatize mental health, at least in this country.

Well then, at the bare minimum you'd need to critique and dismantle the social conditioning that teaches men specifically that mental and emotional well-being are secondary concerns to the acquisition of wealth and power, and replace that assumption with one that values the person and their well-being first and organizes itself around what is good for people's mental and physical health.
---

hollow_shrine posted...

Well then, at the bare minimum you'd need to critique and dismantle the social conditioning that teaches men specifically that mental and emotional well-being are secondary concerns to the acquisition of wealth and power, and replace that assumption with one that values the person and their well-being first and organizes itself around what is good for people's mental and physical health.

also the constant reinforcement from others

men think this way because we reward the men who do it and punish the men who don't

they're just responding to incentives
---

Can't afford the health insurance to seek help. Also you're looked down upon by society, especially women, even if it is subconsciously, if you have a mental health problem such as depression.

I feel like I'm the only functioning adult in my circle of friends. They're all colossal manchildren in some way and I don't know what it's like to have a relationship with another functioning human. Like these people need encouragement to just do basic things but it feels so patronizing. It's kind of lonely.

Sackgurl posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

Well then, at the bare minimum you'd need to critique and dismantle the social conditioning that teaches men specifically that mental and emotional well-being are secondary concerns to the acquisition of wealth and power, and replace that assumption with one that values the person and their well-being first and organizes itself around what is good for people's mental and physical health.

also the constant reinforcement from others

men think this way because we reward the men who do it and punish the men who don't

they're just responding to incentives

Exactly. And I think capitalism (as it operates in modern society) and some of it's underlying assumptions create or support a lot of those harmful incentives. That's not to say those incentives and their negative outcomes will just evaporate in its absence. But it is worth the work of trying to change aspects of our social programming to things which build up as many people as possible and encourage us to seek and offer help from/to one another.
---

hollow_shrine posted...

Sackgurl posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

Well then, at the bare minimum you'd need to critique and dismantle the social conditioning that teaches men specifically that mental and emotional well-being are secondary concerns to the acquisition of wealth and power, and replace that assumption with one that values the person and their well-being first and organizes itself around what is good for people's mental and physical health.

also the constant reinforcement from others

men think this way because we reward the men who do it and punish the men who don't

they're just responding to incentives

Exactly. And I think capitalism (as it operates in modern society) and some of it's underlying assumptions create or support a lot of those harmful incentives. That's not to say those incentives and their negative outcomes will just evaporate in its absence. But it is worth the work of trying to change aspects of our social programming to things which build up as many people as possible and encourage us to seek and offer help from/to one another.

Devil's advocate question here, but where would the four or five top sources of those positive and negative incentives come into play?
---

*Activate Quora mode*

I think the first step is to stop hoping for any kind of dismantling of societal norms and exceptions, any major reforms in healthcare, etc, and just play the cards you are dealt, while remembering the cards you currently have can always be swapped out for better cards via personal improvements.

Does society really have very high expectations of men? The problem with human beings is that we fall under this trap that is pluralistic ignorance. For example, we have A,B,C,D and E (all names). Every single one of them will not judge the rest for not being successful by society's standards, but yet at the same time, all of them believe the rest will judge them this way. Obviously I'm not saying judgmental people do not exist. Just that we overestimate the degree and pervasiveness of societal judgement. And of course our own insecurities just exacerbate every negative thought in our heads.

In my opinion, practical wisdom is a necessary condition for happiness. And practical wisdom can be achieved by acquiring knowledge (reading, learning from people, learning from experiences) --- about how individuals, communities, and organizations function. Of course, there is a huge overlap between that and stuff about personal improvement (nutrition, common pitfalls of human thinking, social psychology, dating, etc).

Blame the opioid crisis, big pharma needed more oversight starting in the late 90's.
---

I mean, we're creating a society of despair over here. You can work 80 hours a week and not make ends meet, and even if you're doing well, odds are you're doing worse than your parent's generation. Real wages haven't grown, real income for most is declining, healthcare and a college education are more expensive now than ever, and are proportionally much more expensive now than they were even a decade or two ago. The housing market is the playground of speculators and gentrifiers, and decreased incomes and increased debt loads of the average person means good housing is out of reach for many, if not most. It's easy to feel like things won't get better, either, because they've demonstrably been getting worse for a long while, and not much has been done or is being done to fix it. Good luck saving for retirement, because nobody is any rush to patch up Social Security*. It's little wonder so many people turn to opioids to ease the pain.

*Except for Boomers. And don't you even dare suggest we raise the cap on the payroll tax, that's unrealistic. What's realistic is that everyone will work to 75+ or starve.

I mean, you cannot ever discount the societal factors. There's ample reason to be anxious and depressed in our country today, and trying to sugar-coat what's happening is akin to putting lipstick on a pig.

It also don't help that everywhere you look we're told that white men are the devil. Sure the hell doens't make me feel good about myself, and I'm already on the edge with depression and [ToS]
---

Love sucks and is only getting tougher as I age.
---

ElatedVenusaur posted...

I mean, we're creating a society of despair over here. You can work 80 hours a week and not make ends meet, and even if you're doing well, odds are you're doing worse than your parent's generation. Real wages haven't grown, real income for most is declining, healthcare and a college education are more expensive now than ever, and are proportionally much more expensive now than they were even a decade or two ago. The housing market is the playground of speculators and gentrifiers, and decreased incomes and increased debt loads of the average person means good housing is out of reach for many, if not most. It's easy to feel like things won't get better, either, because they've demonstrably been getting worse for a long while, and not much has been done or is being done to fix it. Good luck saving for retirement, because nobody is any rush to patch up Social Security*. It's little wonder so many people turn to opioids to ease the pain.

*Except for Boomers. And don't you even dare suggest we raise the cap on the payroll tax, that's unrealistic. What's realistic is that everyone will work to 75+ or starve.

I mean, you cannot ever discount the societal factors. There's ample reason to be anxious and depressed in our country today, and trying to sugar-coat what's happening is akin to putting lipstick on a pig.

Social security will likely be completely out of money by the time we get old. I agree with this. You struggle every day and often do it entirely alone. I can't tell you how many people I know have only one person they can talk to, and it's usually a relative or coworker.
---

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Pretty much this. We're in late stage capitalism with a declining world power that has an insane person at the head of it. Yeah people have become jaded and cynical, and the wealth gap is getting worse than ever. People are sold this idea that "hard work" will get them places, but for most people it isn't and simply won't, and for those few that get lucky... well there are less and less of them left. Yeah it's gonna suck being a breadwinner in such an environment, all the while you get to look at the insane world situation unfold before you whenever you turn something on.

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Agreed. If it wasn't for capitalism, there will be less suicides because we'll be dying of starvation instead.

A lot of suicide is driven by perceptions of social value. If you want to change one, you need to change the other.

A_A_Battery posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Pretty much this. We're in late stage capitalism with a declining world power that has an insane person at the head of it. Yeah people have become jaded and cynical, and the wealth gap is getting worse than ever. People are sold this idea that "hard work" will get them places, but for most people it isn't and simply won't, and for those few that get lucky... well there are less and less of them left. Yeah it's gonna suck being a breadwinner in such an environment, all the while you get to look at the insane world situation unfold before you whenever you turn something on.

It also used to be the case that if you went to college, you usually ended up with a decent job, but that hasn't been the case in a long while. Where I work, most everyone has a college degree, I do not. I am paid more than most my coworkers, and I'm on the same level as them.
---

I honestly think social media hasn't helped society at all in this respect. A whole lot of people comparing their entire life to highlight reels.
---

Internet is a hell of a drug

Darmik posted...

I honestly think social media hasn't helped society at all in this respect. A whole lot of people comparing their entire life to highlight reels.

Amen
---

I know it's increasingly become an attractive option for me, given my status as excess human stock.

I'm never going to be needed or wanted, I am literally fucking useless, at least being dead I'm not taking up resources or space anymore.
---

No one gives a fuck about men. If women were dropping out of school and killing themselves at the rate men are it would be a big deal. In a nut shell, feminism has succeeded and we are forced to live in a new toxic, man hating society that is constantly emasculating men and tells them they need to do better. So now exposed to this reality you see men going their own way without even knowing what it is or are rage quitting life all together.
---

Inferno Dive Dragoon posted...

I know it's increasingly become an attractive option for me, given my status as excess human stock.

I'm never going to be needed or wanted, I am literally fucking useless, at least being dead I'm not taking up resources or space anymore.

Don't do it. You have value.
---

Kolibri X posted...

No one gives a fuck about men. If women were dropping out of school and killing themselves at the rate men are it would be a big deal. In a nut shell, feminism has succeeded and we are forced to live in a new toxic, man hating society that is constantly emasculating men and tells them they need to do better. So now exposed to this reality you see men going their own way without even knowing what it is or are rage quitting life all together.

I was this way before it became "cool" to shame men for being men. I would finally get a date or a girl that was interested in me, but I was too afraid of making an advance because I didn't want to come off as only wanting sex and then they would feel ugly

I cry almost every night because of how lonely I am, and no one cares, not even my own family. I try to tell them things that bother me, but they tell me that I'm not telling the truth. Tried to explain to my step-dad one time about my learning disability, but he told me it wasn't real. Also thinks depression isn't real
---

CarrieChan posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Capitalism isn't helping things any

Agreed. If it wasn't for capitalism, there will be less suicides because we'll be dying of starvation instead.

Nearly a 23:1 post to karma ratio, and I wasn't aware that humanity starved to extinction prior to the advent of capitalism.
---