Current Events > Explain something psychological to me.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Okay, so you've got the Kubler-Ross Model, which describes the grieving process for the death of a loved one. Denial, followed by anger, then bargaining, then depression, then acceptance.

Explain to me, people who know psychology, how bargaining can be applied to this situation. I mean, I know in a difficult situation people tend to try and "cut a deal", but how do you bargain when the person is already dead?

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That model has not been proven to be legit IIRC, and it's focused more on terminally ill not already dead people

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I guess, but you didn't directly answer my question.
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probably just skip that step.
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I think that bit is proxied by delusion. I don't want to force the term "bargain" into it, but the logic of trying to arbitrate something immutable is still there. The delusion, in what I've observed, is usually the grieving person convincing themselves that everything is actually fine, or they forget, or briefly convince themselves that the person isn't dead.

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"Bargaining" can be substituted with "was it something I did?", or skipped entirely.

Sunhawk posted...

I guess, but you didn't directly answer my question.

So fuckin do your own research

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"If I had just been a better person theyd still be around"

It can also be an appeal to the memory or spirit of the departed. If one believes in that.

"I finally got rid of all my weird fetish porn, now my wife's spirit can rest easy"

That kind of thing.
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It's important to understand that stages may occur multiple times and/or simultaneously with other stages- it's not a straight line to "acceptance". Some stages may not even occur in every grieving process.

Sabram posted...

"If I had just been a better person theyd still be around"

It can also be an appeal to the memory or spirit of the departed. If one believes in that.

"I finally got rid of all my weird fetish porn, now my wife's spirit can rest easy"

That kind of thing.

Interesting. Are you a psychologist / psychiatrist?

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Sunhawk posted...

Sabram posted...

"If I had just been a better person theyd still be around"

It can also be an appeal to the memory or spirit of the departed. If one believes in that.

"I finally got rid of all my weird fetish porn, now my wife's spirit can rest easy"

That kind of thing.

Interesting. Are you a psychologist / psychiatrist?

Nope, but I do like studying psychology in my spare time.
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My best friend died Saturday. He was a better person than I ever will be and I found myself saying stuff like it would have been better if I died and he lived.

He died in a freak accident so theres nothing I could have done. But does that count as bargaining?
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Sabram posted...

"If I had just been a better person theyd still be around"

It can also be an appeal to the memory or spirit of the departed. If one believes in that.

"I finally got rid of all my weird fetish porn, now my wife's spirit can rest easy"

That kind of thing.

This doesn't seem like bargaining to me.

Bargaining to me seems more like an illogical disparate plea.

Like

"Please God, if you just give her back, I'll never sin again"

Or

"She was so young, if you could just give us 10 more years Id be forever thankful"

I'd say it's more of a step that religious/spirtual people go through
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Lost_All_Senses posted...

Sabram posted...

"If I had just been a better person theyd still be around"

It can also be an appeal to the memory or spirit of the departed. If one believes in that.

"I finally got rid of all my weird fetish porn, now my wife's spirit can rest easy"

That kind of thing.

This doesn't seem like bargaining to me.

Bargaining to me seems more like an illogical disparate plea.

Like

"Please God, if you just give her back, I'll never sin again"

Or

"She was so young, if you could just give us 10 more years Id be forever thankful"

I'd say it's more of a step that religious/spirtual people go through

The first one is more like denial. Since a person knows that someone deceased cant come back, anything that begs for the person to come back falls into denial and not bargaining. Since bargaining is a further step along the process, the one affected isnt trying to bring them back somehow, but trying to come to terms with their grief by making deals or plans to do things that they think will assuage it, or as said before give peace to the spirit of the departed.
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Sabram posted...

Lost_All_Senses posted...

Sabram posted...

"If I had just been a better person theyd still be around"

It can also be an appeal to the memory or spirit of the departed. If one believes in that.

"I finally got rid of all my weird fetish porn, now my wife's spirit can rest easy"

That kind of thing.

This doesn't seem like bargaining to me.

Bargaining to me seems more like an illogical disparate plea.

Like

"Please God, if you just give her back, I'll never sin again"

Or

"She was so young, if you could just give us 10 more years Id be forever thankful"

I'd say it's more of a step that religious/spirtual people go through

The first one is more like denial. Since a person knows that someone deceased cant come back, anything that begs for the person to come back falls into denial and not bargaining. Since bargaining is a further step along the process, the one affected isnt trying to bring them back somehow, but trying to come to terms with their grief by making deals or plans to do things that they think will assuage it, or as said before give peace to the spirit of the departed.

I see what you're saying in this post, but even your examples don't follow that. Your examples were all stuff he already did prior to the death, rather than what he was gonna do. I just don't see the bargaining aspect in them. I agree my examples were denial, but they did have a bargaining aspect to them
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