Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 342: Biden: His Time

(+) Yeah! (+)

Topic title shamelessly stolen from Alexandra Petri because I couldn't think of anything

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79094756

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Im aware, people wanted one remade with the flair

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Ah, ok

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tag

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I mean, Trump's lawsuits would improve the process, if the judges weren't deciding most of them would not and have no basis, and consequently throwing them out. So it's not really equivalent? No one is saying we shouldn't verify the election by legitimate means.

First of all, the dumbest duopolist idea ever is that conservative judges always fall in line for Republicans and vice versa for liberal judges. It has absolutely no basis in our country's history and it is incredibly insulting to one of the biggest strengths of our government, which is the relative independence of the judicial branch. It's straight up doom porn.

Next, even if the judges were conspiring against a correct vote, states would still be highly incentivized to improve their process, so that the courts couldn't invalidate their count in the future.

The fact is, we need overwhelming evidence that the count is right, and we don't have it. If we did have it, the courts would have to agree, but more importantly the people would have to agree. Yes Trumpers would still cry but they would get over quicker, instead of spending 4 years getting groomed by the conspiracy media to vote Republican again in 2024.

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https://twitter.com/dblock94/status/1325127003662557187?s=21

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jfc

https://twitter.com/JaneMayerNYer/status/1325454817314156545

(though she's done worse)

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Tag

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Trump tweets still refusing defeat.

curious how long this goes.

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masterplum posted...

curious how long this goes.

I give it 4 years.

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Til the electors finalize it

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In strictly tweet form...I don't think he'll ever claim he lost.

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I legit forgot Newt Gingrich existed.

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if Twitter stays true to its earlier comments public interest privileges, he won't be able to continue there.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

if Twitter stays true to its earlier comments public interest privileges, he won't be able to continue there.

What do you think TrumpTV will be for?

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Thread

https://twitter.com/mattnegrin/status/1325442116147941376?s=21

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I dont give a damn how trump refusing to concede is portrayed as long as he is out in January. Hes legally allowed to contest the results.

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Hes legally allowed to challenge whatever, but his completely baseless accusations of rigging are going to sow mistrust thats going to be very hard to fix. Creating millions of new conspiracy theorists is a big deal.

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The idea is to paint Biden's administration as 'illegitimate'. At least that's why Republicans are going along with it. Trump's going along with it for the grift.

Hope it kind of backfires on them, and Republicans decide NOT to vote next time because our elections are RIGGED.

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what someone is legally allowed to do and what you should be okay with someone doing are not the same and should not be the same
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Dancedreamer posted...

The idea is to paint Biden's administration as 'illegitimate'. At least that's why Republicans are going along with it. Trump's going along with it for the grift.

Hope it kind of backfires on them, and Republicans decide NOT to vote next time because our elections are RIGGED.

Thats a good strategy. Tell them to not bother anymore if you think its rigged. And then continue to run legit elections.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Thats a good strategy. Tell them to not bother anymore if you think its rigged. And then continue to run legit elections.

This would be the best outcome, tbh. Decreasing voting R's numbers because they believe the process is illegitimate would potentially have D's needing to move further left because why(yes I know it's still Democrats) would your try to win your votes over people who think it doesn't work they way they want it to.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/dblock94/status/1325127003662557187?s=21

That use of the term liberal made me cringe. The main opposition in the UK are socialists (and social democrats). The Tories are very close to the Democrats. An economically liberal and socially liberalish party. That should teach you just how much those neoliberal ideologies can suck! Not being far right doesnt mean you cant be terribly damaging and corrupt.

Edit: Also its not even accurate as if the UK didnt have its moronic electoral system theyd be long gone, and if Johnson leads the Tories into the next election he is set to lose. He likely wont, though.

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Corrik7 posted...

Til the electors finalize it

Inb4 trump bribes 50+ electors into becoming faithless
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Hes legally allowed to challenge whatever, but his completely baseless accusations of rigging are going to sow mistrust thats going to be very hard to fix. Creating millions of new conspiracy theorists is a big deal.

The narratives were written and consumed long before the election. What happens between now and January won't change anyone's mind. After January though, people will fall into a comfortable position. Many people find comfort in the conspiracies, but it's a small portion.

Jakyl25 posted...

Thats a good strategy. Tell them to not bother anymore if you think its rigged. And then continue to run legit elections.

That's basically what I've been telling them. Like if you're accusing the Democrats of being able to manufacture racism, global warming, and a global pandemic, then of course they will be able to rig a few thousand votes in a couple states. How the hell are you gonna fight that kind of force with a facebook post?

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foolm0r0n posted...

The fact is, we need overwhelming evidence that the count is right, and we don't have it. If we did have it, the courts would have to agree, but more importantly the people would have to agree. Yes Trumpers would still cry but they would get over quicker, instead of spending 4 years getting groomed by the conspiracy media to vote Republican again in 2024.

You're no less naive than any neolib when you say stuff like this. These people will never, ever, ever agree that the election was fair no matter how much evidence is presented. Evidence is completely irrelevant.

foolm0r0n posted...

The narratives were written and consumed long before the election. What happens between now and January won't change anyone's mind. After January though, people will fall into a comfortable position. Many people find comfort in the conspiracies, but it's a small portion.

No way in hell is it less than 50% of Republican voters.

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Foolmo what the fuck are you rambling about? This isn't a "narrative," this is the objective fact of the lawsuits. Over half of the ones the Trump campaign filed did not hold up in court. Of the remaining ones, the two that he seems to have won standing on were about increased access to observation (essentially meaningless in terms of actual security) and a few where they seem to be entertaining the basis for disqualifying some ballots. Feel free to disagree, but being extremely pedantic about what votes count and timing deadlines just increases the amount of bureaucracy in our elections without a substantial increase in election quality and at the expense of disenfranchising voters, so it's a waste of time. Again, not a "narrative," that's a political stance based on reality. You're waxing poetic about how we should be able to challenge the process to improve the quality of our elections while failing to account for these specific challenges not improving the quality of our elections. I repeat: NO ONE here has advocated against challenging the count on grounds that actually have merit.

Second, while I will gladly take the L on the judges not falling for Trump's obvious bullshit in this scenario, the idea that you can extrapolate this to us not having a partisan issue in the courts is also not grounded in reality. Just because there are some high profile cases where conservative judges rule against the party line due to very specific technicalities of the case does not absolve this issue. A good example is during the federal investigations over the past 4 years where Trump picked up a few losses but the broad trend there was for Trump to dress up his personal interests as ones of the state, and for conservative judges to shield him by ceding authority and executive privilege to the Presidency (small government btw).

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htaeD posted...

Inb4 trump bribes 50+ electors into becoming faithless

Then he won the election.

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Its funny to hear conspiracy complaints when republicans tried all their own rotten tricks including the whole hunter biden nonsense.
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Corrik7 posted...

Then he won the election.

Not if Biden bribes an equal amount of them!
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Jakyl25 posted...

Not if Biden bribes an equal amount of them!

If they both bribe 50 to go faithless and not vote for the other, Trump still wins.

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Well I assumed they would bribe them to vote for them
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270 bribed votes all go to jo jorgensen

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Gmun posted...

270 bribed votes all go to jo jorgensen

Lib right likes this

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This series got me hooked on PredictIt

thanks

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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1325511603157159942?s=21

LOL
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StartTheMachine posted...

No way in hell is it less than 50% of Republican voters.

It's way less than 35 mil

StartTheMachine posted...

You're no less naive than any neolib when you say stuff like this. These people will never, ever, ever agree that the election was fair no matter how much evidence is presented. Evidence is completely irrelevant.

Evidence cuts away the space that conspiracies can thrive in. Everyone has their line, and at some point they are convinced. There will always be extremists, but evidence moves the line.

But you're right that no one will be convinced of THIS election. That's what I mean when I say the narrative has already been written. No one changes their mind during an argument, only after. The result of the current lawsuits won't matter now, but in the future they will probably be a net good.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This isn't a "narrative," this is the objective fact of the lawsuits.

Tell it to those following the narrative. They don't care about the lawsuits, just that there were lawsuits. That falls in line with their worldview and that's it. So you're agreeing with me here.

But to your general point about the lawsuits not actually improving the process - waiting multiple days to get results counted DOES reduce confidence in the election. Having to disqualify even 1000 votes DOES reduce confidence in the count. This is clearly one thing that the feds and the states have the responsibility to improve. I don't get why statists want government to do every job except the ones their are explicitly assigned.

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Ehh the narrative change is working. Trump protests across the country have been consistently getting smaller. The risk of civil unrest has shrunk dramatically. It has begun to sink in to a lot of these people that at the very least they don't have a leg to stand on in the court of public opinion.

Andrew Yang is moving to Georgia so he can vote in the runoffs

I appreciate it but I have to admit I would be incensed by Republicans doing this
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Honestly the scariest think about the runoffs to me right now is it getting ruined by the moderates.

Kasich and his ilk have proven to be complete fucking morons over the last couple days.

"Could our moderate candidates collapsing around the country be their own fault?...No, it's the libs who are wrong!"

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Yeah they're not going to get moderates excited to turn out again, especially if they feel like they did their job voting for biden

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I wonder how that might factor for 2022 primaries, if centrists might think mission accomplished giving space for more continued progressive wins.

... although progressives also have to state engaged for the primaries. and then everybody needs to be back for the full midterms.

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Leafeon13N posted...

Ehh the narrative change is working. Trump protests across the country have been consistently getting smaller. The risk of civil unrest has shrunk dramatically. It has begun to sink in to a lot of these people that at the very least they don't have a leg to stand on in the court of public opinion.

That's the thing about a superficial movement like Trumpism, unlike BLM, you can't go out on the streets day after day in support of it. You get bored of it way too easily. And if you add undeniable evidence on top of that, it becomes really socially uncomfortable to continue.

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They deleted this tweet

Because its literally a fake newspaper

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https://twitter.com/rightwingwatch/status/1325513157926932480?s=21

I cant tell if this is pathetic or bone chilling
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That is a broken man, who is now laughing in joy and relief that he doesn't need to follow Trump anymore

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foolm0r0n posted...

But to your general point about the lawsuits not actually improving the process - waiting multiple days to get results counted DOES reduce confidence in the election. Having to disqualify even 1000 votes DOES reduce confidence in the count. This is clearly one thing that the feds and the states have the responsibility to improve. I don't get why statists want government to do every job except the ones their are explicitly assigned.

...the lawsuits are the ones slowing things down and attempting to disqualify votes in the first place. If you want to make this argument, you should be in favor of changing laws to allow states to count early votes in advance of the general and either not federally challenging state election procedures or at least doing so beforehand to speed up the process instead of slowing it down. EVEN IF delays reduce confidence, the answer is certainly not to intentionally reduce that confidence as a matter of political strategy. Once again you are ignoring context so you can blindly adopt an "anti-statist" position out of sheer contrarianism.

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/rightwingwatch/status/1325513157926932480?s=21

I cant tell if this is pathetic or bone chilling

It's literally like he's an alien pretending to be human, lol.

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foolm0r0n posted...

That's the thing about a superficial movement like Trumpism, unlike BLM, you can't go out on the streets day after day in support of it. You get bored of it way too easily. And if you add undeniable evidence on top of that, it becomes really socially uncomfortable to continue.

Conservatives don't protest. It's that simple.

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