Current Events > I still can't fathom how can anyone like meta competitive pokemon gameplay

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's one of single most mind bogglingly tedious process i can think of in gaming.

And a lot of data isn't really available to you so you have to rely on datamined information from websites like smogon or serebii.

It's just pure hell of grinding, producing an egg, then grind again while looking up a guide what trash mob gives which EV stat. It's RNG on top on RNG on top of smogon guide on top of dozens of hours grinding.

Like min maxing in DnD usually involve finding the most synergy between your stat, equipments, class feats and abilities, and putting your stats point in them.

I can't understand how anyone actually like raising pokemon with perfect IV/EV stuff. It's just insane and insidiously overdesigned.

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Yeah, I never fucked with any of that. I feel like the games kinda get boring as all hell once youre done with the elite 4

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darkprince45 posted...

Yeah, I never fucked with any of that. I feel like the games kinda get boring as all hell once youre done with the elite 4

Battle tower was almost impossible unless you engange in a little EV grind back then.

In contrast the non postgame content nowadays are laughably easy you barely have to interact with the game >__>


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Surest way to suck the fun out of a kid's game series is to make it in-depth competitive. At least for me.

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i prefer pokemon showdown too but

And a lot of data isn't really available to you so you have to rely on datamined information from websites like smogon or serebii.

doesn't this pretty much apply to every competitive game? you have to look things up online because the game doesn't (and usually cannot) tell you literally everything

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I get the idea that dedicated hard work can lead to fulfillment, but the level of nonsense involved seems to be on the "why ever bother" side of the spectrum. Then you see some of the same people acting like the smart individuals using injection are demonspawn for not wanting to go through the hassle. Though I think each generation has cut down on a bit of the BS over the years, so not sure what it's like in the current generation.

Heartomaton posted...

Surest way to suck the fun out of a kid's game series is to make it in-depth competitive. At least for me.

I do applaud x/y for making it a lot less tedious. Even though i stopped caring about the series there.

But yeah, the core gameplay is actually fun (in concept because the execution has been really meh), simple and take decent skill to become adept.

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Raising and EV training a team ingame and all that was always way too much for my lazy self. Waaaaaaay back in the day of Gen 3 I just used Netbattle

I think the only time I ever bothered EV training ingame was for Emerald's Battle Frontier. And even then, it was only 3 Pokemon since you only used 3 there lol. Still didn't care enough about IVs though.

I don't do competitive anymore, just casual playthroughs. Way too much shit for me to get back into that at this point.

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Nemu posted...

Then you see some of the same people acting like the smart individuals using injection are demonspawn for not wanting to go through the hassle.

if someone cheats at the actual pokemon games when they could just play one of the many online simulators that let them just make a team then yeah that's obviously a really shitty thing to do, idk how you can argue otherwise unless you're fine with cheating in general

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Choco posted...

i prefer pokemon showdown too but
doesn't this pretty much apply to every competitive game? you have to look things up online because the game doesn't (and usually cannot) tell you literally everything

Yea, fighters for example, require you to memorize Tens of dozens of characters frame data in order to compete.

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Well for one, thats not competitive gameplay thats just the breeding and training mechanics.

And you are really overblowing how long it takes to breed up a battle-ready mon, but even then the reality is that these mechanics arent really fully employed by anybody.

Basically everyone has at least one foreign 6IV ditto (which is also a pokerus source) all you need to do is breed with it a few times to get a perfect mon; takes no time at all and with the right items EV training also takes no time whasoever.

It only gets complicated when you want weird IV combinations or want battle ready shinies/legends, but even then.

The reality is most Pokemon gameplay doesnt require you to go that in-depth with it at all, and learning how to battle is going to more for you than just having perfect stats on your mons.

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Choco posted...

if someone cheats at the actual pokemon games when they could just play one of the many online simulators that let them just make a team then yeah that's obviously a really shitty thing to do, idk how you can argue otherwise unless you're fine with cheating in general

If all you're doing is generating a legal, obtainable unit in a game to skip dozens of hours of grinding, I couldn't care less. There's no advantage there. The only reason to complain is if you feel personally cheated that you wasted your time when you really didn't need to bother.

Nemu posted...

If all you're doing is generating a legal, obtainable unit in a game to skip dozens of hours of grinding, I couldn't care less. There's no advantage there. The only reason to complain is if you feel personally cheated that you wasted your time when you really didn't need to bother.

again, you can skip the hours of grinding by playing on showdown instead. yet they feel the need to use cheats/exploits/tools/whatever to make "perfect" team in the game where that's not supposed to be part of the mechanics. how can you argue that that's not cheating and a dick move?

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I used pkhex from gens 4-7

Choco posted...

again, you can skip the hours of grinding by playing on showdown instead. yet they feel the need to use cheats/exploits/tools/whatever to make "perfect" team in the game where that's not supposed to be part of the mechanics. how can you argue that that's not cheating and a dick move?

Because it gives no actual advantage in the game. Who wins or loses still depends on the skills of the player and how they use whatever team they have, regardless of how it was generated.

Time saved in team-building, if anything, is more often a disadvantage simply because someone who does that exclusively is more likely to not fully understand the ins and outs of battling and how those perfect stats and movesets interact with each other and with the other mons on the team.

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I see generating an ideal Pokemon team the same as generating yourself a SL125 character for Souls PvP. There's nothing present that someone else couldn't achieve, you just cut the tedium (if you're only in it for pvp)

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OP I used to use shoddy battle, and that got shut down, but now you can just battle online with https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/

You can build your team, apply all the EVs, give them a moveset and hold item, etc., and afaik it's all legal. Competitive pokemon is actually really fun, but I agree the utter BS you have to do to get there is garbage. Plus, what if you get your pokemon to level 100 and later find out, you know what...my team would be better with a different pokemon lol.

BipBapBam posted...

I don't do competitive anymore, just casual playthroughs. Way too much shit for me to get back into that at this point.

yeah that's the thing i haven't played competitive pokemon since gen 4, and i think i played a little bit of gen 5. at this point i have no clue what the hell is happening. mega evolutions and 3 whole generations of new pokemon introduced lol.

Do nerds still get mad when people use save editors to make their ideal (but still legal) pokemon? Like I remember manchildren crying about people shaving off like 10 hours of work per pokemon while they have to do things the hard way. Though it's not surprising given the people who play competitive pokemon....
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Mist_Turnips posted...

Do nerds still get mad when people use save editors to make their ideal (but still legal) pokemon? Like I remember manchildren crying about people shaving off like 10 hours of work per pokemon while they have to do things the hard way. Though it's not surprising given the people who play competitive pokemon....

crab bucket mentality

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I didn't play SS, but by SM, EV training was like a 10 minute process. And even IV breeding was substantially reduced.

But yeah, it is an unnecessarily opaque process. Like the game hints at it, but without ever actually explaining the mechanics.

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Learning about IVs and shit ruined my enjoyment of Pokemon. Even though I never played it competitively, it was still there in the back of my mind, nagging at me that I could be playing more optimally.
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At least in the newer games theyve streamlined the process a lot, but youre better of just playing in Showdown.
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I'm pretty sure a lot of people still don't actually breed out each pokemon and Ev train them. There are still ways to generate pokemon with the movesets and stats you want for testing or just play a simulator.

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That's why I gave up on competition in online games. People know way more than they ought to.

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nfearurspecimn posted...

That's why I gave up on competition in online games. People know way more than they ought to.

is this satire

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I don't enjoy competing in general so I don't even know what people are doing. People really be giving their Pikachu steroids like, bruh

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