Current Events > Trans swimmer under fire for shattering women's collegiate swim records

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://fox11online.com/news/nation-world/trans-collegiate-swimmer-breaks-womens-records-after-competing-as-male-for-three-seasons

A transgender swimmer at the University of Pennsylvania who used to compete as a male is breaking university records and winning events in women's swimming following her transition.

Lia Thomas, who previously competed for the university men's team as Will Thomas, recently competed in a tri-meet with teams from Princeton and Cornell on Nov. 20.

According to Swimswam.com, a website dedicated to covering collegiate swimming, Thomas "blasted the number one 200 free time and the second-fastest 500 free time in the nation... breaking Penn program records in both events. She swept the 100-200-500 free individual events and contributed to the first-place 400 free relay in a tri-meet against Princeton and Cornell in her home pool."

Swimswam reports Thomas' time for the "200 free" race would have scored her a podium spot in the 2021 NCAA Championships.

Being trans has not affected my ability to do this sport and being able to continue is very rewarding, said Thomas in an interview with the university's student newspaper, Penn Today.

According to the NCAA's "transgender policy", a transgender female athlete who has undergone a year of testosterone suppression treatment is allowed to compete on women's teams.

Thomas' record-breaking numbers have prompted pushback from critics, who argue Thomas has an unfair advantage compared to her current competition.

"I say abolish gender based sports. Let men and women compete against each other in every sport. When female athletes fall by the wayside, theyll have no one to blame," said Twitter user Jason Warrick.

Dr. Emma Hilton, a developmental biologist at the University of Manchester, conducted a data analysis of Thomas' performances and concluded Thomas' finish time is "extraordinary" compared to the average female finish time.

When competing as "Will Thomas" on the University of Pennsylvania's men's team, Thomas was an "Ivy League Championships qualifier in 500 free" in the 2017-18 season, "Second-team All-Ivy in the 500 free, 1,000 free, and 1,650 free, after reaching the A final of the Ivy League Championships and finishing second overall in each of the events," in the 2018-2019 season, and "Competed in four of Penns eight regular season events, Won the 500 free against Villanova (Nov. 15)" in the 2019-2020 season, according to university records.

University records also say Thomas did not compete in the 2020-2021 season as all events were canceled due to the coronavirus pandemic. Thomas is competing on the university's women's team for the 2021-2022 season, and last competed on the men's team in November 2019.

What a messy situation
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What's messy about it? She's a woman just like the other participants

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post 3 of 500

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To 500!

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Why do people continue to ignore science so blatantly in the name of politics?

The solution is obvious: just introduce a trans league.

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brotrrwinner posted...

What's messy about it? She's a woman just like the other participants

"I'm going to ignore reality because doing so makes me think I'm a good person!"

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voldothegr8 posted...

According to the NCAA's "transgender policy", a transgender female athlete who has undergone a year of testosterone suppression treatment is allowed to compete on women's teams.

Fair, next then?

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If she still has normal male testosterone levels then obviously its unfair

edit: looks like she took suppressants. Im not a medical expert but I do think she would still have some kind of advantage

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MutantJohn posted...

The solution is obvious: just introduce a trans league.

what a bad solution

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ill call the Sanctimonious Sect

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Shocking

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brotrrwinner posted...

What's messy about it? She's a woman just like the other participants

a woman who is biologically male that has physical advantages unattainable by women that are biologically female

MutantJohn posted...

The solution is obvious: just introduce a trans league.

I say, when it comes to sports, it should be sex based and not gender based. Clearly there's still a huge advantage even with lowering testosterone.
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brotrrwinner posted...

What's messy about it?

i guess all the water

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Oh boy, I cant wait until Cyric and Negi start stinking up the topic.

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Lots of transphobes in this thread, it's sickening

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Kaiganeer posted...

a woman who is biologically male that has physical advantages unattainable by women that are biologically female

/Topic

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gna647 posted...

Im not a medical expert

But you're still confident that she somehow had an unfair advantage.

For reasons.


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The-19th-Sparta posted...

start stinking up the topic.

I shower.

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I think the data suggests there's an issue worthy of discussion.

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Maybe the biological women should have tried going through male puberty if they wanted to compete in sport.

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even with the testosterone being suppressed, haven't the muscles already experienced that enhanced growth for the entire time the person was receiving testosterone? how long does it take for the muscles to return to "normal" sizes for women? what about things like bone structure like how men traditionally have broader shoulders? would those broader "man" shoulders provide any advantage over 'women' shoulders WRT swimming?

edit: for clarity, i am not against trans women competing with cis women. i feel like this is one of those issues where i completely understand both sides of the argument and there's just no way to make everyone happy and it sucks

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ThePrinceFish posted...

Maybe the biological women should have tried going through male puberty if they wanted to compete in sport.

How many F2M transgenders shatter records in the men's division?

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The fuck is with these articles that just quote some random ass no-name on Twitter?

She followed the rules. You want to remove her, change the rules.

Nobody has any problem when trans people lose, only when they win.

Prove they have an unfair advantage with science, not with feelings.

And on and on.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

even with the testosterone being suppressed, haven't the muscles already experienced that enhanced growth?

Yes. Bone structure and height, too.

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Middle hope posted...

Shocking

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MutantJohn posted...

Why do people continue to ignore science so blatantly in the name of politics?

The solution is obvious: just introduce a trans league.

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It's always going to come down to this. It's gonna need to be heavily regulated. Male born trans are going to have more muscle mass, denser bones, height, weight..

I was going to say have a trans league too, but there needs to be enough willing to participate.

It just sucks for all sides. Unless it's like a mixed sport team.

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Arcanine2009 posted...

It's gonna need to be heavily regulated.

By whom?

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CyricZ posted...

By whom?

A regulatory body.

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CyricZ posted...

She followed the rules. You want to remove her, change the rules.

Nobody has any problem when trans people lose, only when they win.

Prove they have an unfair advantage with science, not with feelings.

And on and on.

Yep.

Remember that trans weightlifter? People were going "Oh, she's going to have an unfair advantage and win all the golds!"

And then she lost and I don't recall seeing any of the wrist wringers here showing up about that.


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Thomas should not be competing in the women's league. That's all I have to say on this matter.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

A regulatory body.

If only there was some kind of National Collegiate Athletic Association that could have policies for things like this

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Nemu posted...

The fuck is with these articles that just quote some random ass no-name on Twitter?

This was my biggest takeaway too wtf

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Oh no, not the swim records!!!!

seriously who cares. pretty sad when the best argument transphobes can come up with are pointless fuckin sports lol

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TheChariot posted...

Thomas should not be competing in the women's league. That's all I have to say on this matter.

Well I know we were all on pins and needles waiting for that one

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People only care when a trans woman wins. All the times they compete and lose no one even notices.

Or complain anyway.

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creativerealms posted...

People only care when a trans woman wins. All the times they compete and lose no one even notices.

Or complain anyway.

Obviously there are more factors than gender in play, but the truth of it is this:

If an average man and an average woman both train in a physical sport (running, swimming, weight lifting, etc.) with equal diligence, then the man is going to win against the woman 9 of 10 times, and that's being very generous to the woman. That's just how humans evolved.

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Dr. Emma Hilton, a developmental biologist at the University of Manchester, conducted a data analysis of Thomas' performances and concluded Thomas' finish time is "extraordinary" compared to the average female finish time.

The problem isn't trans women winning, it's how much they're winning by.

There's a reason why men and women have different leagues. There's a reason why we test athletes explicitly for extra testosterone.

This isn't really an anti-trans thing, it's about keeping competition fair.

Lia Thomas, who previously competed for the university men's team as Will Thomas

Although mods will probably suspend me/warn me again so I'm just gonna sit here and wait until I have another week-long break from CE.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

If an average man and an average woman both train in a physical sport

Wouldn't the very act of training stop making them average?

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The only way to solve it is to let it happen.

This just proves that once again a trans woman is better at a competitive sport

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CyricZ posted...

Wouldn't the very act of training stop making them average?

They're average at the start of the scenario. I'm suggesting they start on equal footing with no prior training, then start at the same time as one another.

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MutantJohn posted...

There's a reason why men and women have different leagues.

Got a feeling you don't actually know what that reason is.

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CyricZ posted...

What does that mean in detail? I think it means far more than "no prior training" in the case of people who decide they want to sportball.

Take an average man. Now take an average woman.

Now have them start training in equal amounts with equal discipline to one another.

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CyricZ posted...

Got a feeling you don't actually know what that reason is.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

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CyricZ posted...

Got a feeling you don't actually know what that reason is.

I'll again give you one famous example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters

Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[57] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[58][57] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[59] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 50, beat her 61. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 62.[57] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[60] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players could not handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[57]

Simply put, women can't compete with men in sports.
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