Current Events > Final Fantasy IV is a bit of an odd one character-wise, isn't it?

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CyricZ
12/16/21 7:08:43 AM
#1:


I was thinking about this yesterday and it seems that as far as characters go, FFs fall into two major categories:

  1. You play as the same characters for the vast majority of the game, with possible slight variation with guests or characters stepping away for a bit. (1, 2, 3, 5, 15)
  2. You play as an amount of characters larger than your party can handle throughout the story, and by and large once they're all established you get the opportunity to switch and shuffle them out to your liking. (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13)
IV is the only one (of the main numbered) where it's a large cast and you don't get the option to shuffle, which makes it interesting how they ended up addressing that in both the Advance (just give you the ability late in the game) and DS versions (Augments kind of serve that purpose a bit).

What are some other RPGs that do what IV did?

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ArgonHawk
12/16/21 7:11:27 AM
#2:


2 shuffles a bunch of characters in and out of your party a lot

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saspa
12/16/21 7:15:02 AM
#3:


Not really odd... FF 4 is pretty much the breakthrough entry of the Final Fantasy series, the first one with relatively complex characters and a sweeping story that keeps you hooked. As with most JRPGs, playing it is like playing a story on rails, and it's only after this game that they finally decided to have more and more heavily story focused games, with 6 beating it out for most party members and then the ps1 titles starting the tradition of companion archetypes

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CyricZ
12/16/21 7:15:49 AM
#4:


ArgonHawk posted...
2 shuffles a bunch of characters in and out of your party a lot
It's been a while but if I recall isn't it Firion, Maria, and Guy in your party pretty much for the game, though?

Yes, you have Minwu, Gordon, Leila, Ricard, etc., but that's reserved for that fourth slot. I challenge that as being closer to that "same characters all game" than IV's setup.

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CyricZ
12/16/21 7:21:00 AM
#5:


saspa posted...
Not really odd... FF 4 is pretty much the breakthrough entry of the Final Fantasy series, the first one with relatively complex characters and a sweeping story that keeps you hooked. As with most JRPGs, playing it is like playing a story on rails, and it's only after this game that they finally decided to have more and more heavily story focused games, with 6 beating it out for most party members and then the ps1 titles starting the tradition of companion archetypes
These are all facts but I don't think they address the point I'm making, that mechanically it's an odd one out. Call it the progenitor to what ended up being the style with VI if you will; it's still an odd entry and they haven't done it again.

And perhaps they shouldn't. Perhaps giving the player characters to train and then just removing them from active gameplay forever is a bad thing to do to the player.

Honestly though I'm wracking my brain for another example of this. Maybe there's a Dragon Quest that does it?

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#6
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BLAKUboy
12/16/21 8:15:59 AM
#7:


You have your core group of Cecil, Rosa, and Rydia for the bulk of the game. Edge comes in I believe about halfway through.
Its really not that much worse than II.

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gunplagirl
12/16/21 8:24:27 AM
#8:


BLAKUboy posted...
You have your core group of Cecil, Rosa, and Rydia for the bulk of the game. Edge comes in I believe about halfway through.
Its really not that much worse than II.
This. In glitchless speedruns it might be a less than half the time that you've got Edge, but the other three are there most of the run.

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teep_
12/16/21 8:27:57 AM
#9:


CyricZ posted...
And perhaps they shouldn't. Perhaps giving the player characters to train and then just removing them from active gameplay forever is a bad thing to do to the player.
Which would explain why so few, if any, other games did it

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CyricZ
12/16/21 8:29:08 AM
#10:


gunplagirl posted...
In glitchless speedruns
tommyleejonesnewspaper.jpg

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saspa
12/16/21 8:32:21 AM
#11:


I mean by that logic you could say that it's the odd one out because it's the only one where you train a character and then that character literally transforms into a different job category altogether and resets to level 1. Not even FF 3 did that.

They were still working out the kinks, as it was their most ambitious title, and you can see its influence in all its entries up to and including 12.

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lZUAL_REBlRTH
12/16/21 8:33:00 AM
#12:


CyricZ posted...
I was thinking about this yesterday and it seems that as far as characters go, FFs fall into two major categories:

1. You play as the same characters for the vast majority of the game, with possible slight variation with guests or characters stepping away for a bit. (1, 2, 3, 5, 15)
2. You play as an amount of characters larger than your party can handle throughout the story, and by and large once they're all established you get the opportunity to switch and shuffle them out to your liking. (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13)
IV is the only one (of the main numbered) where it's a large cast and you don't get the option to shuffle, which makes it interesting how they ended up addressing that in both the Advance (just give you the ability late in the game) and DS versions (Augments kind of serve that purpose a bit).

What are some other RPGs that do what IV did?

I dont like how some of the characters only stay in your party for a bit before they leave for good.
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saspa
12/16/21 8:40:26 AM
#13:


The ultimately fakeout deaths pretty much blew my mind as a kid. I was like "omg!" and "oh no!" throughout so many scenes. Palom and Porom turning themselves to stone was basically the equivalent of FF 7's aerith fainting except FF 4 actually referenced in-game mechanics like using esuna to no avail.

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Alucard188
12/16/21 8:44:05 AM
#14:


Trails in the Sky did the same thing as Final Fantasy 4. You had two main characters (Estelle and Joshua), and two party slots that would be filled by new and different characters in each location. They would leave and join at various points in the story.

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Alpha218
12/16/21 9:04:52 AM
#15:


Its the only one where you can use 5 party members at once also iirc

Also its very interesting how radically different the Free Enterprise randomizer makes the game. You take the rails off the game and all of a sudden you have a massive world to explore and unlock

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PowerOats
12/16/21 9:06:56 AM
#16:


I thought it was odd that you get to use 5 members in battle instead of the usual 3-4
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gunplagirl
12/16/21 10:15:15 AM
#17:


CyricZ posted...
tommyleejonesnewspaper.jpg
Glitched is just race to the 64 doors of doom and menuing hell. Sorry I like actually fun categories.

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yusiko
12/16/21 10:19:10 AM
#18:


FF2 did the same thing with its 4th party slot by having the 4th party member change constantly which thanks to the odd leveling system it was really annoying to train someone new

The official 4th main character doesn't join until the final dungeon and both Leila and Ricard are in your party longer than he is

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gunplagirl
12/16/21 10:23:44 AM
#19:


PowerOats posted...
I thought it was odd that you get to use 5 members in battle instead of the usual 3-4
It was the first with ATB so they were probably trying to make sure you'd always have something to do since you can use the menus while animations are going off. Though really, it was mostly offset by summons having such long cast times anyways.

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gunplagirl
12/16/21 10:25:14 AM
#20:


yusiko posted...
FF2 did the same thing with its 4th party slot by having the 4th party member change constantly which thanks to the odd leveling system it was really annoying to train someone new

The official 4th main character doesn't join until the final dungeon and both Leila and Ricard are in your party longer than he is
At least in 4 they gave exp to party members who weren't in the group yet.

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Tyranthraxus
12/16/21 10:27:55 AM
#21:


CyricZ posted...
What are some other RPGs that do what IV did?
Phantasy Star 4 and Lufia 2.

That said FF6 does this up to a point. It's not really until after the battle at narshe do you hit party swap mode.


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Questionmarktarius
12/16/21 10:31:04 AM
#22:


Play it on PSP. There's a great postgame added on where you can swap the party around, and it includes the entire "After Years" if you ever want to play that.
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Will_VIIII
12/16/21 10:49:18 AM
#23:


What's odd to me too is I can't really pinpoint an era it's trying to replicate

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Tyranthraxus
12/16/21 12:42:02 PM
#24:


Will_VIIII posted...
What's odd to me too is I can't really pinpoint an era it's trying to replicate
It's a culmination of the core concepts and designs of FF1, 2, and 3. FF4 is essentially the definitive classic final fantasy.

FF5 feels like an upgraded 3 and FF6 onward things get progressively weird.

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Questionmarktarius
12/16/21 12:51:30 PM
#25:


FF4 marked a shift from being subtly funneled to the next milestone, to being explicitly told to go there.
The plot happens to the player, instead of the other way around.
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Will_VIIII
12/16/21 12:53:29 PM
#26:


Tyranthraxus posted...
It's a culmination of the core concepts and designs of FF1, 2, and 3. FF4 is essentially the definitive classic final fantasy.

FF5 feels like an upgraded 3 and FF6 onward things get progressively weird.
What I mean by era is that you have very traditional medieval kingdoms but also have super futuristic dungeons.

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CyricZ
12/16/21 12:54:31 PM
#27:


Will_VIIII posted...
What I mean by era is that you have very traditional medieval kingdoms but also have super futuristic dungeons.
I'm not saying it was aliens.

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Will_VIIII
12/16/21 12:54:54 PM
#28:


CyricZ posted...
I'm not saying it was aliens.


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ArchHero
12/16/21 12:56:15 PM
#29:


Very odd.

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