Poll of the Day > Why does the West still support Israel?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I get why they did when it was formed but.. They're just genociding now? Why are we supporting them?

Because a very significant number of people don't understand that changing your mind in response to new information or changing circumstances isn't a sign of weakness or moral failure.

adjl posted...

Because a very significant number of people don't understand that changing your mind in response to new information or changing circumstances isn't a sign of weakness or moral failure.

I don't like how it somehow makes you anti-Semitic to not support Israel in its current form.

There's no good guys in the middle east so no one cares about the bad things they're doing

Muscles posted...

There's no good guys in the middle east so no one cares about the bad things they're doing

Well that is a psychopathic statement.

Because your ancestors suffering horribly means you get a free pass to do the same as long as it benefits the world powers. No questions asked.

(For the mods, I'm being very sarcastic here.)

BlackScythe0 posted...

Well that is a psychopathic statement.

There's a stigma against Muslims in the west, you can't tell me there isn't and that it hasn't lead to people not caring about them getting killed. Is it right? Of course not but that's how it is. If they were bombing the west do you think it would be the same response? No, they would actually care then.

Jen0125 posted...

I don't like how it somehow makes you anti-Semitic to not support Israel in its current form.

It's largely an overcompensation for the Holocaust. Much of the West wasn't a huge fan of Jews for a while before WWII, which contributed significantly to Hitler's ability to persecute them. People felt guilty about that, so they try to err on the side of being nice to Jews and default to taking their side.

It doesn't help that there's still a non-trivial amount of actual anti-semitism floating around, so it's not entirely unreasonable to assume that that's why any given person is decrying Israel if one hasn't paid enough attention to understand the details of the situation (which I wouldn't call reasonable ignorance, given how easy it is to learn, but that's a different tangent). The irony, of course, is that there's also a substantial amount of Islamophobia floating around, which is the basis for a lot of people assuming that Israel must be in the right.

adjl posted...

It's largely an overcompensation for the Holocaust. Much of the West wasn't a huge fan of Jews for a while before WWII, which contributed significantly to Hitler's ability to persecute them. People felt guilty about that, so they try to err on the side of being nice to Jews and default to taking their side.

It doesn't help that there's still a non-trivial amount of actual anti-semitism floating around, so it's not entirely unreasonable to assume that that's why any given person is decrying Israel if one hasn't paid enough attention to understand the details of the situation (which I wouldn't call reasonable ignorance, given how easy it is to learn, but that's a different tangent). The irony, of course, is that there's also a substantial amount of Islamophobia floating around, which is the basis for a lot of people assuming that Israel must be in the right.

I've learned that even being right about the current situation about Israel and Palestine is seen as offensive. Some extremists have even seen fit to say antisemitism is the most radical form of racism due to the unparalleled success of Jewish communities success after World War 2. I'm gonna sit this one out and let the world burn, because even having an educated opinion on Abrahamic religion will get you banned.

Because far right evangelical Christians believe doing so will lead to the second coming of Jesus. The less crazy politicians either don't want to be painted as bigots, or like having a strong ally in a place like the middle east, because the rest of them hate us anyway, so might as well make them hate us more but have a stronger offensive capability in return.

Muscles posted...

There's no good guys in the middle east so no one cares about the bad things they're doing

I dont know how much time you spent on the Middle East but I met plenty of good people while I was there

but this isnt the first time youve said xenophobic shit like this, so it shouldnt be surprising.

Cacciato posted...

I dont know how much time you spent on the Middle East but I met plenty of good people while I was there

but this isnt the first time youve said xenophobic shit like this, so it shouldnt be surprising.

I was talking more about the perception of the middle east in the west which I went on to clarify in post 7, I don't think any group of people is 100% good or bad. There's good and bad people in every group, including Muslims.

LonelyStoner posted...

I've learned that even being right about the current situation about Israel and Palestine is seen as offensive. Some extremists have even seen fit to say antisemitism is the most radical form of racism due to the unparalleled success of Jewish communities success after World War 2. I'm gonna sit this one out and let the world burn, because even having an educated opinion on Abrahamic religion will get you banned.

Bonus points where being "right" about the current situation is "they're all douchebags and should stop murdering each other, Israel's just currently winning the murder contest and therefore deserves the most negative press."

Of course, the actual history is a bit more nuanced than that and mostly comes down to how the West decided to carve up the Ottoman Empire, but at the end of the day, "just stop killing each other and share" solves the whole problem.

I do not foresee this topic lasting long

I wish we could just exist and not bother each other with all the tediums of our own personalities. Why can't we just fucking live

Sunk cost fallacy?

adjl posted...

It's largely an overcompensation for the Holocaust. Much of the West wasn't a huge fan of Jews for a while before WWII

Yeah a lot of people don't realize that it took the Holocaust for most of the world to go "wow, antisemitism is actually pretty bad, huh?"

So that there's an easy beachhead into the East, pretty much

"nuke the Palestinians? You don't really believe that do you?"
"Gotta nuke something"

For a long time it was overcompensation for the Holocaust. However, I don't get the sense that the general US public has any idea how Israel formed and most have only a rudimentary understanding of the Holocaust.

I think those who most actively support Israel these days do so either because they are Jewish partisans or because they're MAGA and the country is white, relatively powerful, and our longtime ally...which of course puts them on the "good" side of the ledger in MAGA world.

Obama and Biden have been trying to distance from Isreal's government, but they still get a ton of military aid from the US. That needs to end: history is history but Israel is currently repressing a population with no realistic end in sight. The Palestinians aren't perfect, but those with the power (Israel, now) are most responsible for finding an acceptable solution. It's sad.