Current Events > Last Week Tonight: Homeschooling

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzsZP9o7SlI

Now this is a complicated and touchy subject for them to be tackling.

On the one hand, it does speak to the freedoms of America that a parent has the right to educate their children, and there are some amazing success stories to come out of the idea. I myself have a friend who homeschooled all her children and they're all wonderful and socially active adults now.

On the other hand, a severe lack of oversight, particularly in some states, has led to what you might expect when no one knows what kind of education a homeschooled child is getting, up to and including them being preserved in an altogether abusive household with no way for the child to contact other adults to ask for help, the kind that a public school would normally provide.

And any attempt to regulate has almost always led to both "the good ones" and "the bad ones" joining forces to stop ANY kind of government oversight. The homeschooling lobby is literally one of the most powerful and influential in this country simply due to the fact that the concept speaks to cleanly to freedom of the individual in America.

I'm happy to have this show back. They've been off the air for way too long due to the writers strike.

I'll watch the new episode a little bit later.

Just went into the comments for that video and it's a massive mix of "I was homeschooled and it was great" and "I was homeschooled and it sucked".

It's essential to have the option to do. That cannot be taken away.

It's unfortunate the a significant majority of parents that choose to homeschool do so for horrible, awful reasons.

It's not easy to devise a solution, and all attempts are slow battles. A separate campaign combatting child abuse would stop some of the worst ones at least.

Most homeschooled kids I know are dumb weirdos. There was one girl I know who was actually pretty smart but she was super churchy too.

Apparently the concept is popular among genZ. I'm assuming them growing up in the school shooter era has led to that partially

DarkChozoGhost posted...

It's unfortunate the a significant majority of parents that choose to homeschool do so for horrible, awful reasons.

Is it the majority?

Because that's the thing. The lack of oversight means we don't even know who's good or bad? And how would we even rate that? I mean, it's easier in the case of actual abuse, but what if they're just not quite as good at being teachers?

Homeschooling should be an option. I know a couple of people who were homeschooled (it's rare in the UK), and they are . . . fine. Bit socially awkward, maybe. (Note: they were homeschooled because their parents thought the local schools were shit. Not because they wanted them to learn about how Jesus rode a dinosaur).

But the parents must be willing and able to meet minimum standards, and that needs to be monitored.

I'm a high school mathematics teacher. My sister has 5 kids and homeschools. She also married into an evangelical Christian family that also homeschooled.

I have my concerns and opinions to say the least.

I believe that parents should have the right to homeschool, but there needs to be standards, oversight, public funding, public resources, and public training.

In many communities, schools are the number one source of education, nutrition, physical activity, safety, and social interaction for kids and adolescents. Teachers and staff are some of the first responders in a physical or emotional crisis and are mandatory reporters of abuse, neglect, or mental health concerns.

We are trained and educated to understand developmental psychology, pedagogy, epistemology, and of course our content area. Most parents have none of this training nor experience. Should they choose to homeschool then they need to demonstrate competency and get publicly funded supports founded in educator-led research and practices for teaching their kids.

Conservatives are doing everything in their power to dismantle public education and replace it with for-profit private and charter schools; all of which would be founded in religious and political indoctrination. Homeschooling and fearmongering about public schools are other tools they're using to further this agenda.

I think it should stay but be more tightly regulated. Like maybe your kid needs to be tested every so often to make sure you are actually teaching them and the kid be interviewed in private to make sure their not being abused

When I started being homeschooled, we went to a small homeschooling convention in the area. My parents were not aware of how backwards it was. The Civil Rights Movement was outright vilified in one of the history books. My mom actually took me aside to look at it and was like "you know this is all bullshit, right?"

Will love to get a look at this later.

While homeschooling is a right I think that anyone who chooses to exercise it deserves extra scrutiny. Waaaaay more scrutiny than they get.

Wandering__Hero posted...

I think it should stay but be more tightly regulated. Like maybe your kid needs to be tested every so often to make sure you are actually teaching them and the kid be interviewed in private to make sure their not being abused

There definitely needs to be some testing done to make sure homeschooled kids are learning, but all kids should be tested.

Why would the good ones not want oversight? What are they hiding?

C_Pain posted...

Why would the good ones not want oversight? What are they hiding?

Yeah.... That lobbying group and the literal nazi education shit was apalling.
Never looked into home schooling much, I just assuming that surely they have to take periodic aptitude tests or such, to prove they're actually being taught.

It seems incredibly insulting to teachers to act as if simply popping out a baby magically makes someone an expert in pedagogy. It's scary to me that homeschooling is on the rise.

DarkChozoGhost posted...

It's not easy to devise a solution, and all attempts are slow battles.

Because primary education is mandatory, there's no good reason why there can't be accrediting bodies overseeing homeschool curricula.

ZMythos posted...

Conservatives are doing everything in their power to dismantle public education and replace it with for-profit private and charter schools; all of which would be founded in religious and political indoctrination. Homeschooling and fearmongering about public schools are other tools they're using to further this agenda.

Because, the public school system is increasing seen as "for the 'poors'", which is absolute poison for popular support.

Wandering__Hero posted...

I think it should stay but be more tightly regulated. Like maybe your kid needs to be tested every so often to make sure you are actually teaching them and the kid be interviewed in private to make sure their not being abused

The tests they give kids in public school are remarkably bad at determining what a child has learned and only really useful for determining how well a child takes tests.

So I think tests maybe aren't the best way to regulate homeschooling, especially for the types of students that tend to slip through the cracks at public school because they can't conform.

IronChef_Kirby posted...

It seems incredibly insulting to teachers to act as if simply popping out a baby magically makes someone an expert in pedagogy. It's scary to me that homeschooling is on the rise.

I personally appreciate the sentiment here. While I don't necessarily feel insulted, I'm moreso concerned about the direction public perception on education has been going for the past two decades.

I think parents are an important stakeholder in a child's education. They're often the first ones to notice and advocate for children with disabilities. They're responsible for teaching discipline, responsibility, and hygiene at home. I don't want to discredit the role parents have in child development, nor do I want to draw a dividing line between schools and homes. There is plenty of room for productive overlap and that should be the goal we as a society should continue to strive for.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The intention was to homeschool me as a kid, but my mom taught me for like a week, and then just stopped. So there was a 5 year period where I wasn't educated at all until I tried going to high school.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

You are OUR dumb weirdo and we love you. <3

The video does a good job of showing why there needs to be better regulation but it has to be done very carefully, since the whitewashing of history we're seeing in certain states now is a good use case for why the right to homeschool needs to exist.

C_Pain posted...

Why would the good ones not want oversight? What are they hiding?

I would think the fear is that oversight mechanisms may be abused push political agendas. Would you trust the same red state fucks who want schools teaching that slavery wasn't that bad actually and want to ban any material that even acknowledges the existence of LGBT people to act in good faith when regulating how parents must go about homeschooling their kids?

My family was mostly homeschooled and me and my siblings social groups were pretty much entirely homeschoolers as well. All the normally educated kids I knew were relatives or friends of friends.

There's a massive problem with oversight. I have a highschool diploma, but the process of getting it made it clear that, at least in the state I'm in, education is a top to bottom joke.

Socially speaking my siblings and some of my friends went to a summer camp for homeschoolers and the like every year, and for more than a decade, EVERY YEAR there's at least 1 new kid that's joined up for the first time that was being raised by some rural super conservative religious family from bumfuck nowhere where the next closest house is miles away, and those kids tend to have... Eye opening experiences there to say the least.

But I live in a city, so the families I've known that do it are pretty diverse. They're mostly liberal, but I've known a couple that're conservative and for the most part their kids have been the highest performers grades wise (they're usually pretty stuffy though).

Speaking from experience, there's a very big difference between conservative parents that're homeschooling their kids because the education system is dogshit (which is def true where I'm at) and the conservative parents that're "homeschooling" their kids as a thinly veiled excuse to indoctrinate them with all sorts of shit that wouldn't fly if anyone outside their bubble found out. Luckily most of those kids tend to mellow out real quick once they're let out into the real world for college and shit, but some stay locked in for most of their lives.

-

Once I have children I plan on homeschooling them, at least up until highschool or so. Tutors can pick up the slack on subjects I'm not equipped to teach, plus there's lots of online resources as well. I'll tell you what, I may not have known that Hawaii is a state before the age of 26, but I've been able to do my own taxes and budgets since I was a tween, and the latter is far more useful than the former.

I was "homeschooled" at 9th-12th. I didn't do any schooling,visited almost every state and traveled around. Got my HS diploma in Waipahu HI at 18.

Edit: I just did like a 4 month course.

ZMythos posted...

I personally appreciate the sentiment here. While I don't necessarily feel insulted, I'm moreso concerned about the direction public perception on education has been going for the past two decades.

I think parents are an important stakeholder in a child's education. They're often the first ones to notice and advocate for children with disabilities. They're responsible for teaching discipline, responsibility, and hygiene at home. I don't want to discredit the role parents have in child development, nor do I want to draw a dividing line between schools and homes. There is plenty of room for productive overlap and that should be the goal we as a society should continue to strive for.

For sure, I think the best outcomes take place when schools and families work together.

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

Apparently the concept is popular among genZ. I'm assuming them growing up in the school shooter era has led to that partially

theres tons in my district that opted for virtual learning as opposed to in school learning, to the point that they actually had to implement an artificial limit to enrollment because they had so many kids trying to do it

its absolute garbage and no substitute for actual classroom instruction
my stepson did it during the pandemic for a bit and all the kids just sat in a discord and googled the answer to everything, even during tests, which were administered on a "scouts honor you won't cheat ok?" kinda basis

ArsGoetia posted...

its absolute garbage and no substitute for actual classroom instruction
my stepson did it during the pandemic for a bit and all the kids just sat in a discord and googled the answer to everything, even during tests, which were administered on a "scouts honor you won't cheat ok?" kinda basis

Yikes, guess the district didn't want to invest in software or services that would prevent that sort of thing.

BombermanGold posted...

Yikes, guess the district didn't want to invest in software or services that would prevent that sort of thing.

The options are "examblocker" software that's finicky as hell and trivially defeated anyway, or extra-stern proctoring bullshit like "spin your camera around the room" which is also trivially defeated.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The options are "examblocker" software that's finicky as hell and trivially defeated anyway, or extra-stern proctoring bullshit like "spin your camera around the room" which is also trivially defeated.

There's more than just one option, but I'm guessing it depends on what online Learning Management System the school (or entire District) uses.

And yes, even if there is something good out there, unless if something is actively using the webcam to spy in on the students, nothing's gonna prevent em from using their phone off to the side.

BombermanGold posted...

nothing's gonna prevent em from using their phone off to the side.

"Why does Billy keep looking at his lap?"
The correct answer, is to stick post-it notes directly to the display.

Thats nonsense I invented electricity! Ben Franklin is the Devil!

Watching this on YT right now

Oughta be good since homeschooling is a cesspit of religious indoctrination

Homeschooling and charter schools should be banned.

TendoDRM posted...

Homeschooling and charter schools should be banned.

I agree with the latter, not the former.

Thought it was a pretty interesting and well-informed video covering a very touchy subject, until he got to the teachers are heroes stuff and I just turned it off.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The options are "examblocker" software that's finicky as hell and trivially defeated anyway, or extra-stern proctoring bullshit like "spin your camera around the room" which is also trivially defeated.

Nah I've seen these things in action and they're not trivially defeated. The schools just let you get away with it unless it's super obvious because they don't really care if you're cheating since they got your money and don't want to risk a lawsuit that they can't definitively win.

One of them I saw had a guy who pulled that video stunt from Speed, but he fucked up because while recording the dummy video he had this kitten come into the room and do some shit in the background and 3 months later while taking another exam the kitten did the exact same thing at the exact same time and also didn't age a day.

Wandering__Hero posted...

I think it should stay but be more tightly regulated. Like maybe your kid needs to be tested every so often to make sure you are actually teaching them and the kid be interviewed in private to make sure their not being abused

As a homeschooled kid growing up in PA in the 90s I had to take standardized tests to prove I was keeping up with the public school kids, as did every other homeschooled kid I knew (think taking the SAT but in middle school, maybe earlier), and we had to be evaluated every year by a school teacher to doubly confirm we were actually doing stuff. In high school (possibly earlier and my parents just handled it) we had to log a minimum of 990 hours worth of school time every school year and submit that as well.

The sheer paranoia that some parents have to their child being exposed to anything outside their home is downright criminal

As he showed in that one video, I know some have good intentions but I feel to many just want to make there kids there slaves.

Homeschooling was banned by Adolf Hitler, and Hermann Gring in 1938, in Germany:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/nazis-were-the-first-to-ban-home-schooling-for-kids/30563617.html
https://thinkingwest.com/2020/06/22/nazi-ban-homeschooling/

I certainly don't wish to emulate either of those people, nor do I want my country to emulate Nazi Germany in any shape or form, but hey that's me.

Simon_Gruber posted...

Thats nonsense I invented electricity! Ben Franklin is the Devil!

Lmao

Klaus343 posted...

Homeschooling was banned by Adolf Hitler, and Hermann Gring in 1938, in Germany:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/nazis-were-the-first-to-ban-home-schooling-for-kids/30563617.html
https://thinkingwest.com/2020/06/22/nazi-ban-homeschooling/

I certainly don't wish to emulate either of those people, nor do I want my country to emulate Nazi Germany in any shape or form, but hey that's me.

I'm sure that lady who homeschooled her kids to be nazis feels pretty silly now

lilORANG posted...

I'm sure that lady who homeschooled her kids to be nazis feels pretty silly now

"wonderful Nazis"
>__>

The_Nintendo_Master posted...

As a homeschooled kid growing up in PA in the 90s I had to take standardized tests to prove I was keeping up with the public school kids, as did every other homeschooled kid I knew (think taking the SAT but in middle school, maybe earlier), and we had to be evaluated every year by a school teacher to doubly confirm we were actually doing stuff. In high school (possibly earlier and my parents just handled it) we had to log a minimum of 990 hours worth of school time every school year and submit that as well.

I was always under the impression, becasue that's how it is in New York, that you would still have to pass the standardized State Education tests.

Little did I know that there's a lot of states that have no requirements.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/1/7/AAOGfWAAE6s5.jpg

TC, you weren't in your primal state for us Canadians when you made this thread.

parents who want to home school should probably at least have to get some sort of certificate or a take a community college class or something

Klaus343 posted...

Homeschooling was banned by Adolf Hitler, and Hermann Gring in 1938, in Germany:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/nazis-were-the-first-to-ban-home-schooling-for-kids/30563617.html
https://thinkingwest.com/2020/06/22/nazi-ban-homeschooling/

I certainly don't wish to emulate either of those people, nor do I want my country to emulate Nazi Germany in any shape or form, but hey that's me.

Goofy logic here, Goring opposed animal cruelty too, should we be pro animal cruelty just to be polar opposites from the Nazis?