Current Events > Fallout 4 wasn't a bad game, it was just a bad fallout game.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Which is kind of worse imo. I spent more time building a bitchin home base than I did actually playing the game or building settlements all over(fuck that noise).
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I loved Fallout 4.
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A) Yes
X) Maybe, I guess so
Y) Can you explain more why I should say yes?
B) I oppose this, but I'll agree to it anyway

I didn't think it was a bad Fallout game
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Eh, it wasn't a good game either but it wasn't awful.

Like the combat is still better than it was in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but it's still not as fun to control as an actual shooter.

I blame this more on their insistence to use the same fucking engine for the past two decades though.

Outside of that, yeah it was just a bad Fallout game because of the shitty dialogue, quest structure, story and map. Otherwise it was decent I guess?
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clearaflagrantj posted...

A) Yes
X) Maybe, I guess so
Y) Can you explain more why I should say yes?
B) I oppose this, but I'll agree to it anyway

No thats Fallout 3

Fallout 4 is

A) Yes
X) No (Yes)
Y) Sarcastic (Yes)
B) Hate Fallout
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Hate newspapers
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It was a good game. Much better than FO3 for sure. FO3 was a fucking mess.
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Veggeta X posted...

It was a good game. Much better than FO3 for sure. FO3 was a fucking mess.

I don't know if I'd call FO4 a 'good' game with some argumentative wiggle room, but mostly this: it was a marked improvement over the trainwreck that was FO3 in nearly every category. And honestly, that's all I could have asked from modern Bethesda: to at least improve. It was refreshing to see them for once listen to criticism (particularly in the areas of worldbuilding) and make some pretty decent strides in improving fundamental gaming categories.

Unfortunately the dialogue system was indeed a step back, and that's what people focus on most (which is a shame, because I was quite happy with the female voiced protagonist, and hope that that doesn't get lumped in with dialogue criticism in Bethesda's eyes). Plus FO4 doesn't have that new-wasteland smell and the oh-so divine atmosphere that blinds most gamers to the myriad of FO3's missteps. And to be honest, FO4 does not make a good first impression, considering that the Minutemen are this game's throwaway faction and you will either love or hate settlement-building.
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That moment when you realize you adore Fallouts universe, but hate FO1 and 2's gameplay.

FO4 was great.
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u can at least mod the dialogue so it shows exaclty what ur saying instead of that ME style paraphrase thing
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It was a bad RPG.
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I dunno what makes it a,good game at all.

Is it a bad fallout game? Yes. Limited choices. Role playing opportunity, shitty fetch quest.

Is it a good RPG? Hell no. Stats and skills are superficial, mechanics are so dumbed down a monkey can play it.

Is it a good shooter/ action? Lmao no. Enemies are bullet sponge, guns are samey because the upgrades power are biased towards certain build. Gunplay are better than 3 and new vegas, but thats not saying much. If you wamma shoot something feel good, play a real shooter

Is it a good exploration game? Arguably. Maps and places design range from meh to pretty amazing, but level scaled enemies, borderlands type generic randomized loot killed the exploration reward.

At best it is a mediocre game. I Am playing ELEX atm and it handle open world so muuuch better. No level scaled enemies, no stupid randomized loot, rewarding unique secrets found in hard to reach places, etc.

There is almost no redeemable part of fallout 4 unless you like mediocre everything
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fallout 4 was great, i just thought that the last quarter of the main quest was kind of crappy.

the whole synth thing was very interesting but that kind of got dropped a little more than halfway through the story, which was a bummer because i was hoping there would be more ethical choices about synths or some kind of discussion on it.

i also thought the end of the story was very abrupt and the "choose a faction" part felt very forced and tacked on.

otherwise it's a great game. shooting controls were nice, there were lots of fun things to explore and sidequests to take part in, and i even enjoyed building the settlements as a nice little time waster.
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It was a mediocre shooter and a garbage RPG.
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masterpug53 posted...

Minutemen are this game's throwaway faction and you will either love or hate settlement-building.

I mean isn't that every Western RPG? To be good or evil with anything and everyone?
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Veggeta X posted...

masterpug53 posted...

Minutemen are this game's throwaway faction and you will either love or hate settlement-building.

I mean isn't that every Western RPG? To be good or evil with anything and everyone?

No, I mean in the sense that the Minutemen were the afterthought faction that's there as a fallback, in case you screw the pooch with the three 'main' factions. Much like Yes Man was in New Vegas (not surprising, since Beth clearly modeled FO4's main quest structure on NV).
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apolloooo posted...

At best it is a mediocre game. I Am playing ELEX atm and it handle open world so muuuch better. No level scaled enemies, no stupid randomized loot, rewarding unique secrets found in hard to reach places, etc.

I think level scaling enemies is much better than the alternative, particularly when they are in a range rather than scaling with you 1:1 which is how FO4 handles it. And it's sort of the same situation with randomized loot, there are unique spawns in some areas but I prefer that be the exception rather than the rule

*shrug*

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Asherlee10 posted...

I never finished Fallout 4, but I sure did spend a ton of time building settlements especially when the mods came out. I should go back and do that again.

I just want a settlement building game.

and yeah, I enjoyed settlement building more than the actual game lol
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Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?
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Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

Fallout 3's failures in nearly every fundamental aspect of game design don't sink in for most people, because the lauded atmosphere of the game truly blinds them to it. And I don't necessarily blame them for it, because that stepping-out-into-the-wide-world feel does carry the game a long way, even though atmosphere is arguably the most shallow aspect over which to praise a game. But it truly is a rose-tinted view that most people have of the game. For me, playing FO3's original ending was when the shine was obliterated off the apple, but the depths of that game's failures didn't fully sink in for me until about a year after NV released, when all the bugs of that game had been ironed out and all the stellar NV DLC had dropped.

But ultimately, FO3's main quest plot is atrocious (and the focal point of the main plot has no actual relevance to the game world); the worldbuilding is self-contradicting and intelligence-insulting; the characters are bland and unmemorable (apart from a handful of campy comic-relief types); the karma system is an absolute joke; the combat is that frustrating mix of FPS'ing and die rolls that should have died with Morrowind; VATs is broken; and a laundry list of more minor flaws

If it's something you're really interested in, there's a slew of articles and vids out there debunking FO3, but this vid is by far my favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78&t=4308s

Yes, it's over an hour long. And yes, the guy's accent may annoy you. And he goes on a gaming journalism rant in the first 3 minutes that might make your brain scream 'gater!!' But I urge you to look past that, because it's almost eerie how well this video captures 90% of the game's flaws (the only thing he doesn't really touch on is the game's failures of cohesive worldbuilding). One of my favorite points he makes is describing a friend who likes FO3, but admits that he pretty much has to ignore the main quest to get any enjoyment of farting around in the wasteland. Apart from ripping FO3 in its own right, he compares FO1 (and a little of FO2) to FO3 and shows how the former examples succeed at their goals and FO3 fails at similar goals. I also appreciate that he tries to be fair and praise FO3 for the scant few things it does right; I always felt that Vault 87 was one of the game's highlights, and it's nice to hear him make note of it as well. If you're really interested, I'd highly recommend taking the time to watch.
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masterpug53 posted...

Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

Fallout 3's failures in nearly every fundamental aspect of game design don't sink in for most people, because the lauded atmosphere of the game truly blinds them to it. And I don't necessarily blame them for it, because that stepping-out-into-the-wide-world feel does carry the game a long way, even though atmosphere is arguably the most shallow aspect over which to praise a game. But it truly is a rose-tinted view that most people have of the game. Playing FO3's original ending was when the shine was obliterated off the apple, but the depths of that game's failures didn't fully sink in for me until about a year after NV released, when all the bugs of that game had been ironed out and all the stellar NV DLC had dropped.

But ultimately, FO3's main quest plot is atrocious (and the focal point of the main plot has no actual relevance to the game world); the worldbuilding is self-contradicting and intelligence-insulting; the characters are bland and unmemorable (apart from a handful of campy comic-relief types); the karma system is an absolute joke; the combat is that frustrating mix of FPS'ing and die rolls that should have died with Morrowind; VATs is broken; and a laundry list of more minor flaws

If it's something you're really interested in, there's a slew of articles and vids out there debunking FO3, but this vid is by far my favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78&t=4308s

Yes, it's over an hour long. And yes, the guy's accent may annoy you. But it's almost eerie how well this video captures 90% of the game's flaws. One of my favorite points he makes is describing a friend who likes FO3, but admits that he pretty much has to ignore the main quest to get any enjoyment of farting around in the wasteland. Apart from ripping FO3 in its own right, he compares FO1 (and a little of FO2) to FO3 and shows how the former examples succeed at their goals and FO3 fails at similar goals. I also appreciate that he tries to be fair and praise FO3 for the scant few things it does right; I always felt that Vault 87 was one of the game's highlights, and it's nice to hear him make note of it as well. If you're really interested, I'd highly recommend taking the time to watch.

Damn

Pretty much nailed my impression of the game my 1st play through it.
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"Hello father I have never met, would you like to run the Institute for me despite you being no different than any other wastelander that walks in here except for being my biological father?

D: "HATE NEWSPAPERS."
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Fallout 4 was a fantastic game, and easily the best Fallout game.
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Every single mission is go here kill that come back or go here kill that get that come back.

Until the end of time. Right after I got every achievement for the game I uninstalled it. I love the modern Fallout games but this one was just disappointing to me on so many levels.
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It's honestly a bad game. It tries to do a bunch of different things and doesn't commit enough to any of them for it to work. The result is a confused mess of a game and one of the most consistently shallow and superficial games money can buy.
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Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

Buttmad Obsidian and Interplay fans.
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Agreed. If you ignore the 'Fallout' in the title, the game isn't that bad. The gameplay is kind of solid, actually, and I liked building my own home settlement. Still, fuck Bethesda for what they're attempting to do, and did, to that game.
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Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

I played NV first so its not a wonder i found it bad. The capital wasteland is boring and empty compared to the mojave.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

the only people who are buttmad are people like you who think company fanboyism is the only reason people like NV over 3

I never said that and I do prefer NV over 3. I've stated it many times on CE that it's actually one of my favorite games of all time and supplanted FF3 as my literal favorite game.

But when one clown says "FO3 is garbage" and turns around and praises everything about NV they just look like fools. The games are nearly identical on a gameplay level and NV only improved what was already there and the only real thing separating it from FO3 is it's story which is stellar in comparison though.
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@apolloooo posted...

At best it is a mediocre game. I Am playing ELEX atm and it handle open world so muuuch better. No level scaled enemies, no stupid randomized loot, rewarding unique secrets found in hard to reach places, etc.

This is the first I've ever heard of the game. Looks interesting, and Gothic is supposed to be a really good high-fantasy series, so they have some pedigree. I'll need to read some reviews on it.
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foreveraIone posted...

Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

I played NV first so its not a wonder i found it bad. The capital wasteland is boring and empty compared to the mojave.

This is either a troll post or you're fucking insane. The Mojave is literally just a desert, sand and nothing. Absolutely horrible map.
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i find it kind of weird how everyone seems to worship NV these days. i never really thought it was that good, i thought the whole premise was too goofy for my tastes
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Alucard188 posted...

@apolloooo posted...

At best it is a mediocre game. I Am playing ELEX atm and it handle open world so muuuch better. No level scaled enemies, no stupid randomized loot, rewarding unique secrets found in hard to reach places, etc.

This is the first I've ever heard of the game. Looks interesting, and Gothic is supposed to be a really good high-fantasy series, so they have some pedigree. I'll need to read some reviews on it.

I will write a mini review/impression later. I will tag you when i do
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SlashmanSG posted...

foreveraIone posted...

Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

I played NV first so its not a wonder i found it bad. The capital wasteland is boring and empty compared to the mojave.

This is either a troll post or you're fucking insane. The Mojave is literally just a desert, sand and nothing. Absolutely horrible map.

there's literally nothing to do in 3. only the main quest really. everything is empty.

just lots of empty places. raiders. nothing else.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Hate newspapers

lol
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SlashmanSG posted...

This is either a troll post or you're fucking insane. The Mojave is literally just a desert, sand and nothing. Absolutely horrible map.

See, I thought this as well. Then I actually played it when I was in a mindset to do so. It's far from just a desert and sand. It's not much different from the Capitol Wasteland's bevy of steel and rocks.
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Alucard188 posted...

SlashmanSG posted...

This is either a troll post or you're fucking insane. The Mojave is literally just a desert, sand and nothing. Absolutely horrible map.

See, I thought this as well. Then I actually played it when I was in a mindset to do so. It's far from just a desert and sand. It's not much different from the Capitol Wasteland's bevy of steel and rocks.

except the capital wasteland doesn't even have anything at all.

the Mojave has NCR camps and freeside and lots of other small settlements.

what does the capital wasteland have? arefu?

it's not even comparable.
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nah, it wasnt a good game either. bad writing and story, boring missions, repetitive combat and inbalanced rpg systems, half assed systems all over.
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SlashmanSG posted...

foreveraIone posted...

Tithenion posted...

Where did all this FO3 hate come from? I thought it was generally lauded as one of the best games ever?

I played NV first so its not a wonder i found it bad. The capital wasteland is boring and empty compared to the mojave.

This is either a troll post or you're fucking insane. The Mojave is literally just a desert, sand and nothing. Absolutely horrible map.

Before I rip on the Capital Wasteland as a worldspace, I'd like to hear what you think makes it so worthy of praise over the Mojave. Does the CW have logical, cohesive settlement structure along roadways and supply lines? The MW actually has tougher enemies in logical places and cleared roadways, as opposed to something like Deathclaws and murderbots duking it out all over the place for the lulz; surely the CW trumps the Mojave in this regard as well? Is the CW's exploration rewarding, as in the promise of finding something more than a generic repeatable skill book or a visually-plain weapon with a 'unique' name tacked on? Are the visuals and landscapes beautiful, awe-inspiring, and radiating with multitudes of color and personality? The MW actually had snow and pine mountains and red rock canyons in addition to the desert landscape, so the CW should be bare minimum twice as geographically diverse as this, right?

I mean, the CW has to be some truly breathtaking piece of explorative design for you to literally doubt the sanity of anyone who questions its value. So I'm really looking forward to your glowing and example-citing testimonial.
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like I am 7 hours into the game right now. and I only found 2 potential followers. completed like 5 side quests...and most effort was put in doing the main quest.

I am finding the geck right now

NV you have tons more companions and side quests.
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foreveraIone posted...

Alucard188 posted...

SlashmanSG posted...

This is either a troll post or you're fucking insane. The Mojave is literally just a desert, sand and nothing. Absolutely horrible map.

See, I thought this as well. Then I actually played it when I was in a mindset to do so. It's far from just a desert and sand. It's not much different from the Capitol Wasteland's bevy of steel and rocks.

except the capital wasteland doesn't even have anything at all.

the Mojave has NCR camps and freeside and lots of other small settlements.

what does the capital wasteland have? arefu?

it's not even comparable.

Yup. There are a lot of smaller settlements in New Vegas that actually exist beyond the narrative of the game. Every settlement in Fallout 3 has something to do with the story, and don't exist in any appreciable form beyond that. NV shits on Fallout 3.
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butthole666 posted...

It's honestly a bad game. It tries to do a bunch of different things and doesn't commit enough to any of them for it to work. The result is a confused mess of a game and one of the most consistently shallow and superficial games money can buy.

Yea No Mans Sky wasnt that great at launch.
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I just wish the settler AI was a bit better. I remember building a settlement over the water in Egret Marina and the AI would still spend most of their time on land despite all the stuff I put out on the 'pier' over the water

similar problems in other places, but it was most notable in areas with water
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My biggest problem with it was that it barely felt like a Fallout game; it lacked the charm and world building that the other two had.

Still pretty good though
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