Board 8 > Holy crap, FF Versus XIII might not have even hit full production yet.

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FateStayAlbion
07/13/11 1:11:00 AM
#51:


Jeff Zero posted...
I've had a hard time believing Square's current staff could write things as well as they did with game from FFVI onward -- Chrono Trigger, FFVII, FFT, Xenogears, FFVIII, Vagrant Story, FFIX, Chrono Cross, FFX. Even if you dislike any of these (I have really mixed feelings toward a couple!) it's hard to deny the general quality of writing from this era was leaps and bounds ahead of what has come out since.

Maybe its because their stories are aimed at teens, so we liked all of those more when we were teenagers? I've seen quite a few people complain about FF13 for its story aimed at teenagers, but lets be honest... most jrpgs are aimed at teens. People have just kinda grown out of them

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RevolverSaro
07/13/11 1:11:00 AM
#52:


I don't know if you can blame the merger. Pretty much all of Square Enix's executives were the Square executives before hand. I think it's more likely that while they were willing to give him uncompromising control over smaller projects, they weren't willing to give him complete control over their flag ship franchise. Much more money was at risk.

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LeonhartFour
07/13/11 1:12:00 AM
#53:


I miss the days when we got the 5 greatest games in the series in a 5 year span.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:13:00 AM
#54:



Maybe its because their stories are aimed at teens, so we liked all of those more when we were teenagers? I've seen quite a few people complain about FF13 for its story aimed at teenagers, but lets be honest... most jrpgs are aimed at teens. People have just kinda grown out of them


This is a pretty common statement and I can't say there isn't some truth in it regardless. But I know this, so take it or leave it -- I was reading the classics as a young teenager, I was watching 'geeky' shows with real messages like TNG and DS9, I was watching things in theatres like Schindler's List and enjoying them to no end... and I thought games like Xenogears were damned impressive too.

I'm watching the girlfriend play FFVII for the first time right now. She's 22. She's also much more impressed with its ability to convey a meaningful story than she was with FFXIII. And in rewatching, so am I. It's got some genuine good in it, it really does.

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LeonhartFour
07/13/11 1:14:00 AM
#55:


From: FateStayAlbion | #051
Maybe its because their stories are aimed at teens, so we liked all of those more when we were teenagers? I've seen quite a few people complain about FF13 for its story aimed at teenagers, but lets be honest... most jrpgs are aimed at teens. People have just kinda grown out of them


PS1 Square JRPGs were pretty dark, for the most part. I don't really think they were teen-oriented.

Enjoyed by teenagers, sure, but it's not like they never dealt with mature themes.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:14:00 AM
#56:


RevolverSaro posted...
I don't know if you can blame the merger. Pretty much all of Square Enix's executives were the Square executives before hand. I think it's more likely that while they were willing to give him uncompromising control over smaller projects, they weren't willing to give him complete control over their flag ship franchise. Much more money was at risk.

You've got a good point there. I think it might be a mixture of both but I also think your point is definitely very valid and true. They just weren't willing to compromise from things like "your lead can be no older than 21", which wouldn't have worked for Basch in Matsuno's mind.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:16:00 AM
#57:


Er, for the record I wasn't a young teenager when Schindler's List came out. I was five, haha. I guess I saw that one at home.

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_Harmonica_
07/13/11 1:22:00 AM
#58:


From: FateStayAlbion | #051
Maybe its because their stories are aimed at teens, so we liked all of those more when we were teenagers? I've seen quite a few people complain about FF13 for its story aimed at teenagers, but lets be honest... most jrpgs are aimed at teens. People have just kinda grown out of them


Sounds like a poor excuse for crappy writing to me. A good writer can make a story that appeals to all ages.

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Demon HunterX
07/13/11 1:23:00 AM
#59:


i mean FFVII was the only PS1 numbered FF that really had some mature themes to it. FF8 was a teenage adventure love story and FF9 wasnt super deep or dark either. Tactics was also pretty damn deep.

FF10 was similar to FF8 in its general story themes.

I wouldnt say the "golden years" FF games were way more mature or anything. 2 of them were.

Then again, 2 FFs nowadays equals about 6 years of games. So maybe the PS1 era did seem to have more mature themes.

Id also argue that FF6 had a bit more mature of a setting, but maybe consider it to be a little before squares golden age.

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LeonhartFour
07/13/11 1:24:00 AM
#60:


I wasn't just talking about FFs. FFT, Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Xenogears, even Chrono Cross to an extent.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:25:00 AM
#61:


Reminds me of socksmakepeoplesexy's thing about wondering if he just grew out of the series over time, Harmonica. That's how I've always felt too, really. It really isn't nostalgia; I'm not immune to the thing per se but I'm pretty damn resilient to it. If I'd have replayed one of these games and it wasn't as good as I'd remembered, I would have definitely gone "oh man, it was just for teens."

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:26:00 AM
#62:



FF10 was similar to FF8 in its general story themes.


I don't know, man. FFX's themes concerning death, fate and "you can't always get what you want" were alright.

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YetAnothrShadow
07/13/11 1:26:00 AM
#63:


I would not be surprised if we found out that the only thing keeping SE afloat at their current state is Eidos.

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LeonhartFour
07/13/11 1:27:00 AM
#64:


Wait, are you trying to differentiate FFX from FFVIII thematically and then you mention fate?

Maybe I'm misreading this.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:28:00 AM
#65:


LeonhartFour posted...
Wait, are you trying to differentiate FFX from FFVIII thematically and then you mention fate?

Maybe I'm misreading this.


Well I never said FFVIII didn't have a good theme or two. I just "feel more strongly" about FFX, as they say.

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LeonhartFour
07/13/11 1:32:00 AM
#66:


Don't lie! You don't feel strongly about it at all!

Don't be embarrassed! Ironically, I don't feel strongly the same way!

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:33:00 AM
#67:


LeonhartFour posted...
Don't lie! You don't feel strongly about it at all!

Don't be embarrassed! Ironically, I don't feel strongly the same way!


I feel very strongly about it! Ironically, I haven't played it in a long time! Embarrassingly enough, irony!

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LeonhartFour
07/13/11 1:34:00 AM
#68:


You know what I feel strongly about?

Your face!

Wait, that came out wrong!

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 1:35:00 AM
#69:


I can get behind this. I think.

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Shoenin_Kakashi
07/13/11 2:00:00 AM
#70:


YetAnothrShadow posted...
I would not be surprised if we found out that the only thing keeping SE afloat at their current state is Eidos.

Whoda thunk it back then

what a weird age we live in

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 2:15:00 AM
#71:


It's funny, I mean I remember as a kid seeing FFVII's PC version had Eidos involved and thinking "it's nice of Squaresoft to work with such a smaller company."

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FateStayAlbion
07/13/11 2:18:00 AM
#72:


SquareEnix also runs one of the biggest manga magazines in Japan, and racking in a lot of cash through it. Thats probably helping it keep afloat as well

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Shoenin_Kakashi
07/13/11 2:18:00 AM
#73:


Oh yeah

forgot about that
*Wheres my CT and Mana Series Manga Squeenix*

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 2:20:00 AM
#74:


Shoenin_Kakashi posted...
Oh yeah

forgot about that
*Wheres my CT and Mana Series Manga Squeenix*


Are you familiar with an SE rep said in like mid-2010 or so concerning Chrono Trigger receiving further media? It's one of the most infuriating things they've ever replied with and quite infamous among the fans.

"Oh, the fans want more Chrono-related entries? I wasn't aware -- they should have bought more copies of Chrono Trigger DS, then!"

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Shoenin_Kakashi
07/13/11 2:22:00 AM
#75:


I was not familiar with such douchebag stupidity no

what a stupid douche
(I thought CTDS sold decently anyways?)

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 2:23:00 AM
#76:


Shoenin_Kakashi posted...
I was not familiar with such douchebag stupidity no

what a stupid douche
(I thought CTDS sold decently anyways?)


I guess they weren't totally happy with it. That's what we've gathered from that snide insinuation of his.

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_Harmonica_
07/13/11 2:57:00 AM
#77:


Only 1.1 million people bought a port of a port of an easily emulated game released on one of the most pirated platforms - clearly a sequel would fail!

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 4:12:00 AM
#78:


_Harmonica_ posted...
Only 1.1 million people bought a port of a port of an easily emulated game released on one of the most pirated platforms - clearly a sequel would fail!

Yep. It's a wonderful world of utter delusion SE lives in.

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Takfloyd_mkII__
07/13/11 8:43:00 AM
#79:


Here's hoping that Square Enix will go down in a fiery blaze of un-glory in the next few years, then rise from the ashes as a smaller, more focused company that actually likes making games, and start making smaller-scale, charming and fun RPGs like the ones we see a lot of on the DS.

Radiant Historia showed that an old-school low-budget JRPG can still be ten times better than most other games on the market.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 8:50:00 AM
#80:


I think that's probably the most I can ask for too at this point.

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ZFS
07/13/11 8:57:00 AM
#81:


Stress of directing a project on the size and scale of FFXII, along with continual creative disagreements from corporate, forced Matsuno to take a leave from the project. Most of his work is still in the game, though, even if he didn't see it all the way through.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 8:59:00 AM
#82:


ZFS posted...
Stress of directing a project on the size and scale of FFXII, along with continual creative disagreements from corporate, forced Matsuno to take a leave from the project. Most of his work is still in the game, though, even if he didn't see it all the way through.

Daisuke Watanabe has often expressed regret that much of the new writers' intended scenes didn't make it into the game in time. While we'll never know whether or not that's a blessing in disguise, one of my few big criticisms of FFXII is that it has too much space between cutscenes for an FF.

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ZFS
07/13/11 9:03:00 AM
#83:


Yeah, that happens with every game. Time usually prevents everything from getting into the game, so stuff has to go on the cutting board. I think, for better or worse, FFXII ended up being well-made game with most of the ideas making it in. It's a more gameplay-centric game compared to the past few before it, and it's rough around the edges in some areas, but it's still really good. It's a shame instead of building on that good foundation they had they abandoned it completely in favor of FFXIII.

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pjbasis
07/13/11 9:06:00 AM
#84:


LeonhartFour posted...
I wasn't just talking about FFs. FFT, Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Xenogears, even Chrono Cross to an extent.

You're learning!
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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 9:07:00 AM
#85:


Agreed on all counts. ZFS, you and I liked XII before it was the hipster thing to do thanks to XIII's tepid reaction, so... *brofist*

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KingButz
07/13/11 9:10:00 AM
#86:


I think some people are underestimating the failure of FFXIV. SE is losing millions upon millions every month from that game, and they are going to continue to lose TONS of money because they continue to poor money into it while getting nearly no revenue for it. That game has been the biggest financial failure in MMORPG history.

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ZFS
07/13/11 9:11:00 AM
#87:


representin'

if matsuno worked on a game it's probably worth playing

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_Harmonica_
07/13/11 9:16:00 AM
#88:


I wish I had the patience to try FFT or Vagrant Story once again! Curse slow text speed and complex battle systems

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 9:17:00 AM
#89:


_Harmonica_ posted...
I wish I had the patience to try FFT or Vagrant Story once again! Curse slow text speed and complex battle systems

They're so gosh-darn good though!

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voltch
07/13/11 9:21:00 AM
#90:


I hate you FFXII.

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 9:22:00 AM
#91:


voltch posted...
I hate you FFXII.

FFXII: "I know."

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Strife2
07/13/11 9:34:00 AM
#92:


I knew something was wrong during FFXII. The story is all about Ashe and Basch, but some doofus, teenage, sky pirate wannabe with no shirt (much like a doofus, teenage, soccer star wannabe with no shirt) was given lead character status. I thought that trend would stop with XIII, but then some whiny, inept, mama's boy dominated half of the game. I think we've grown out of Square's target demographic. Unlike Pixar or SMT, they seem to be stuck TO that demographic too, instead of branching out.

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Biolizard28
07/13/11 9:52:00 AM
#93:


Here's a real ****ing neato article detailing why FFXII's development cycle was inches from being SE's swansong.

http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff12

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Jeff Zero
07/13/11 9:53:00 AM
#94:


Yeah, I don't always agree with that guy but he's got interesting stuff.

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Liquid Wind
07/13/11 9:58:00 AM
#95:


square has been a train wreck for a decade, it's amazing that some people still defend them as an elite game developer.
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Diet Water
07/13/11 10:53:00 AM
#96:


yeah video games as a whole suck ass now

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Liquid Wind
07/13/11 10:59:00 AM
#97:


gaming as a whole is fine, just a lot of the older and more established publishers like square, nintendo, capcom and sega aren't good anymore. lots of newer devs doing great things though!
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ZFS
07/13/11 11:00:00 AM
#98:


Sega still pretty awesome

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Liquid Wind
07/13/11 11:02:00 AM
#99:


f-zero GX was the last good thing sega did

but it was great!
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ZFS
07/13/11 11:04:00 AM
#100:


Better answer would be Yakuza!

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