Board 8 > Most Powerful Fictional Character 2011: Goku vs. Yuki Nagato [MPFC]

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STTGL

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Change vote to Goku

Honestly, I hadn't even considered Goku's fights against Buu and the Shenrons. Yuki may have reality powers, but she isn't a fighter - Goku is. She starts with the upper hand but Goku just needs one good blow to take her out.

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^ Yeah...didn't Goku...yknow. Get wrecked by every Buu minus Fat Buu (and he even got stompd by that as well)

and isn't GT not canon (the Shenron stuff) or is it referencing something else

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A punch that will never land, seeing that Nagato either stole his powers, sealed it, or just stopped time while Goku wonders why she's waving that arm.

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My Little Phineas and Ferb: Summer is Magic!

Goku clearly states he could have beaten fat Buu, and Kid Buu(SSJ3 drained too much energy), Super Buu and beyond would give him trouble, but that's no peak Goku. It's only the highest point we see his combat abilities in. End Z Goku trains for another 7 years after the events of Buu.

Pirateking2000 posted...
^ Yeah...didn't Goku...yknow. Get wrecked by every Buu minus Fat Buu (and he even got stompd by that as well)

and isn't GT not canon (the Shenron stuff) or is it referencing something else



What were you watching, Goku owned most of that fight, and told Piccolo afterward he could have easily killed him had he wanted to, but he wanted Trunks and Goten to save the world since Goku was dead now.

As for Goku vs Kid Buu, it is stated that Full Power SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed Buu in one shot. (By both Vegeta and Goku) But again, Goku wanted to give Vegeta a chance too, and therefore lost alot of power because of how much energy it takes to sustain SSJ3.

Meh I dunno. Hanging around the Tenkaichi boards and their constant arguing about Buu vs whoever. In most of the topics involving Buu they talk about how Goku was a scrub compared to him most of the time (arguing stuff about how Ultimate Gohan>>>Goku and how Goku was afraid of Buu etc)

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

Goku was kind of even with Fat Buu I think but he says he wasn't being serious because he wanted Gotenks to beat him or something and he had a time limit on him or something? Obviously hugely outclassed by every Super Buu variation and Kid Buu took he and Vegeta to the limit and required a ton of outside assistance to beat. And GT is non-canon...ish? Been a while since I've payed attention to Dragonball stuff.

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^ That could just be fan thought about GT not being canon since to them GT is like Devil May Cry 2

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

From: Pirateking2000 | #057
(arguing stuff about how Ultimate Gohan>>>Goku and how Goku was afraid of Buu etc)

Gohan is clearly stronger than Goku during the Buu fights(I'd wager End Z Goku was by far the strongest person alive in the series). Goku wasn't 'afraid' of Super Buu, he just didn't think he could beat him.

Goku > Fat/Kid
Super Buu/Buuhan/Buutenks ect, ect > Goku

Pirateking2000 posted...
Meh I dunno. Hanging around the Tenkaichi boards and their constant arguing about Buu vs whoever. In most of the topics involving Buu they talk about how Goku was a scrub compared to him most of the time (arguing stuff about how Ultimate Gohan>>>Goku and how Goku was afraid of Buu etc)



That's because Gohan was much much MUCH stronger than SSJ3 Goku, as was Super Buu and his various forms, as well as SSJ Gotenks and SSJ 3 Gotenks.

Kid Buu is actually quite weak (comparitively of course)

And yeah, Goku flat states that if he and Vegeta fight Super Buu (just standard Super Buu, not stronger variations alone) they will die, end of story.

Finally, no, GT is not canon, nor is any filler in DB or DBZ. Manga only is canon. That said, this is a fictional character contest, and his peak were all GT, canon or not.

meh most stuff just found on the tenkaichi boards where they bring up manga **** or whatever so who knows. Still though Goku is a complete moron and would probably get destroyed by letting Yuki do something (DBZ crew has a tendency for making stupid ass moves that allow the villain to get more powerful / roflstomp)

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

Kid Buu is actually quite weak (comparitively of course)


Yeah the thing with him is he is freakin insane (bad way) which makes him more dangerous. Heck second he showed up he blew up the planet.

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

Sorozone posted...
From: Pirateking2000 | #057
(arguing stuff about how Ultimate Gohan>>>Goku and how Goku was afraid of Buu etc)
Gohan is clearly stronger than Goku during the Buu fights(I'd wager End Z Goku was by far the strongest person alive in the series). Goku wasn't 'afraid' of Super Buu, he just didn't think he could beat him.

Goku > Fat/Kid
Super Buu/Buuhan/Buutenks ect, ect > Goku


No, he was totally afraid of him. Go read the manga when they are in Buu. Goku is utterly terrified of Super Buu, because he knows that SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta combined have a chance of exactly 0 to defeat him.


Also, Ultimate Gohan is the strongest (non fused) character in the DB canon. End saga Goku is not stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Ultimate Gohan is a permanent power up and absolutely SHATTERS what someone's real potential is. Unless Goku gets a power up of that magnitude, he is never touching Gohan (in canon anyway, Toei has a **** on for Goku that you can't believe, so in the movies and GT, Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gohan)

^ That could just be fan thought about GT not being canon since to them GT is like Devil May Cry 2

No, because the guy who made and wrote Dragon Ball had nothing to do with GT or even knows about what happened there.
Or most the movies/specials. That includes Fusion Reborn.

Anyways, Nagato. Damn you reality warping

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Goku is strong, but Nagato can change the laws of physics which outclasses even a planet destroyer like Goku.

Nagato wins.

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Never fear the strong, but never underestimate the weak.

Goku, I know Nagato has the reality hax but Goku's overcome that before. If you're strong enough you can adapt to anything, Vegetto got turned into candy and still knocked the snot out of Buuhan.

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I chose poorly. Black Turtle chose wisely.

Nagato

That said, I disagree with the argument that she'll just take away Goku's powers and end the fight immediately. Things like screaming a hole into a dimensional barrier and being able to use one's ki after being turned into candy suggest to me that such an action isn't so simple (okay, Goku himself didn't actually do those things, but it did happen in the same universe (multiverse?), and Goku's power is comparable enough to those that did.).

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nagato steal Haruhi's omnipotence at one point because she wanted/needed to use it? If she was already omnipotent herself, she wouldn't need to do that, suggesting to me that Yuki's powers are not all-encompassing.

I think the key to victory here is not going to be raw power, but intellect, and Goku doesn't even hold a candle to Nagato in that department. Even considering how combat-focused Goku is, the fact that Nagato can come up with flawless or near-flawless strategies almost instantly tells me that Nagato is going to come out ahead in the end, even if it's going to take a while for the dust to clear. Brainpower FTW.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

Really, Goku's problem continues to be the same thing I mentioned alongside my vote: Yuki exists outside the space-time continuum. The physical body isn't especially important, and that's something Goku just doesn't have an answer to. It's the main reason she beat Sarda and Gurren Lagann too.

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Dying breath, light my blade and sing in shadow! Omega!

This one's already over guys.

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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

KanzarisKelshen
Posted 10/22/2011 7:08:58 PM
The Rules:

-Matches will last exactly 24 hours. Votes after that much time has elapsed will not be counted, even if a new topic hasn't gone up yet.

Altimadark
Posted 10/23/2011 3:18:13 AM




Hmm. I don't see anything in the rules to suggest otherwise.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

The next match already being up does suggest it.

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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

Hmm. That's... kinda odd.

Thanks, I'll take it up with the TC... CC? Well, you know what I mean.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

Except that the next match was put up under false pretenses and fabrications by the host.

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Call me numbers.

I kinda feel bad I contributed to the mercy here - I voted in haste, it won't happen again :(

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Doompa posted...
Goku is strong, but Nagato can change the laws of physics which outclasses even a planet destroyer like Goku.

Nagato wins.



Yeah, try AT LEAST Nebula destroyer


Truly, SSJ4 Goku is no doubt a Universe buster, but I'm not going to argue that now).


Vegeta at 18,000 could destroy a planet.


SSJ Broly destroyed a quarter of a galaxy in seconds.
Super Perfect Cell fired a Kamehameha wave that would have destroyed the galaxy had SSJ 2 Kid Gohan not over come it.
Kid Buu has destroyed 3/4 of the universe.


None of these character even hold a remote candle to peak Goku.

Power doesn't matter when it's stolen, which is way beyond what Goku or anybody else tanked. Nagato, unlike Shenron, doesn't need to be more powerful than her targets in order to alter it.

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NEXT TIME!

Yuki Nagato

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SSJ Broly destroyed a quarter of a galaxy in seconds.

Oh he did not. He did bust up the Southern Galaxy, but he did it bit by bit, planet by planet. This is expressed in a sped up timelapse scene, which Broly fanboys somehow interpret as 'ZOMG HE TOOK DOWN DA HOLE DURN GALAXY IN TEN SECONDS'

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Power doesn't matter when it's stolen, which is way beyond what Goku or anybody else tanked. Nagato, unlike Shenron, doesn't need to be more powerful than her targets in order to alter it.

How long does Yuki's power drain take? Also, what showings does she have of actually draining powerful enemies?


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Drakeryn posted...
Power doesn't matter when it's stolen, which is way beyond what Goku or anybody else tanked. Nagato, unlike Shenron, doesn't need to be more powerful than her targets in order to alter it.

How long does Yuki's power drain take? Also, what showings does she have of actually draining powerful enemies?


Yes, how long does it take. Because this handy video shows what happens to people who fight DBZ characters and steal energy from them, but take a few seconds, instead of instantly.







If she takes even 1 second to steal energy, Goku will have killed her like 500 million times

meh she still shouldn't have beaten GL considering one of its weakest forms PUNCHED A HOLE in the space time continuum

now imagine STTGL (plus it could just get stronger)

but ah well people have shown their idiocy of that match. Also is this match over or isn't it (people have been arguing about it) so I know if I should continue arguing for / against Goku or Nagato

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Pirateking2000 posted...
meh she still shouldn't have beaten GL considering one of its weakest forms PUNCHED A HOLE in the space time continuum

now imagine STTGL (plus it could just get stronger)

but ah well people have shown their idiocy of that match. Also is this match over or isn't it (people have been arguing about it)



She's now been in 3 matches (apparently), I was only here for 2 of them.


She has now gotten votes in all 3 matches, when she should have been mercied in everyone.

Look, it is not a big secret that I think the everyone on this board almost is clinically ******** and should not be allowed to breed to save our gene pool, but let me understand this?




SHE BEAT ****ING SARDA?

Absolutely no one should beat Sarda. (there are few exceptions, (maybe) but they are very few. In addition to having limitless power, he also can rewrite canon, which is just so much further than standard reality warping. It is a mix of time distortion and reality distortion. And this worthless chick beat him?

Anything she can do, Sarda can top.
She doesn't have the defenses to do anything against GL, let alone STTGL
And she doesn't have the offense to deal with SSJ4 Goku.


I know I say it alot, but you suck at this KK.

The thing with Sarda that I can see is that he is arrogant as hell and not especially tanky by himself

he is just overly hax offensive wise etc (at least thats what was mentioned before I believe)

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Pirateking2000 posted...
The thing with Sarda that I can see is that he is arrogant as hell and not especially tanky by himself

he is just overly hax offensive wise etc (at least thats what was mentioned before I believe)



Pretty sure he survivied being hit by every single attack in the history of the universe.....simultaneously.


That seems pretty impressive to me.

wasn't that something with temporary power ups or him having defenses up

I don't know not an expert on Sarda I think someone mentioned how someone hit him / hurt him with a regular attack because he wasn't expecting someone to do it

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/06/16/episode-1141-how-deep-does-the-a-hole-go/
And it works. Sarda does not anticipate their plan. Sarda can do anything he wants to space-time, but that's his limit. He cannot manipulate that which is outside it.

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LlednarTwem posted...
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/06/16/episode-1141-how-deep-does-the-a-hole-go/
And it works. Sarda does not anticipate their plan. Sarda can do anything he wants to space-time, but that's his limit. He cannot manipulate that which is outside it.


You're ignoring the fact that that is a one time use, non replicable attack that no one else in the bracket can do (as they don't have the knowledge to destroy Sarda, and therefore can't).

Which again, points out the incredible sheer idiocy of anyone who has voted for this girl.


Also......THAT DID NOT KILL HIM. They literally did something impossible, that you can only do once you have the knowledge of the entire multiverse that said knowledge said would kill him, and it still didn't.

WTH argued this guy was not a tank?

...I don't think you quite understood the point there. That strip is an example of Sarda being unable to perceive or interact with that which is outside the space-time continuum. Yuki exists outside the space-time continuum. The rest of their plan is irrelevant to that point.

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Dying breath, light my blade and sing in shadow! Omega!

Yeah thats something I wasn't sure of

So is the entity outside of the spacetime continuum named Yuki Nagato

I always thought that was just the name given to the physical interface (aka the girl)

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

...dude. you do realize that's mwc right. as in "stop talking because this conversation will only hurt your brain" right?

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

As far as Goku vs Yuki is concerned

Does Goku have any physical limitations at all? For instance, is there any, and I mean any, limit to how much he can carry? Then Yuki can just set his body to be that weight. If he cannot, for instance, escape from a black hole, then as far as Yuki is concerned he's the same as any other organic. Just change the variables of his existence to something that suits her better.

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Goku struggles to carry a car in the Buu saga.

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You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

Goku struggles to carry a car in the Buu saga.


lol seriously? Granted the explanation would be "oh he had just gotten the **** kicked out of him" but considering the stuff he has been through beforehand...lol

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

yeah there's a physical limit in him. base was around 40 tons, SSJ didn't have a problem with that but nonetheless, a physical limit's on him in the first place. there really isn't a whole lot that shows difference from humans - outside the tail, transformations, and more specific design for combat (including a 'get stronger if you get your ass kicked' card) they really weren't any different. so yeah, he's mostly the same as any other organic.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

LlednarTwem posted...
...I don't think you quite understood the point there. That strip is an example of Sarda being unable to perceive or interact with that which is outside the space-time continuum. Yuki exists outside the space-time continuum. The rest of their plan is irrelevant to that point.

I know what you wre showing with that one. But the rest of the plan is in fact not irrelevant, Yuki can do whatever she wants in her own pocket universe, it doesn't matter. She still can't hurt Sarda. To go beyond that, it is more than just creating your own universe. As Red Wizard put it, the only way this could work (it still didn't) was if you...

Created something the size of the real universe, out of nothing.
Then did it again, still out of nothing mind you.
Then put the two of them together with actual reality.


Explain to me how this worthless chick is doing that.

She's not, Sarda wins, god stomp.

GANON1025 posted...
Goku struggles to carry a car in the Buu saga.


I'm going to guess this was filler, but I don't even remember it happening period during Buu.

EmDubyaSee posted...
I know what you wre showing with that one. But the rest of the plan is in fact not irrelevant, Yuki can do whatever she wants in her own pocket universe, it doesn't matter. She still can't hurt Sarda. To go beyond that, it is more than just creating your own universe. As Red Wizard put it, the only way this could work (it still didn't) was if you...

Created something the size of the real universe, out of nothing.
Then did it again, still out of nothing mind you.
Then put the two of them together with actual reality.


Explain to me how this worthless chick is doing that.

She's not, Sarda wins, god stomp.

...What? The three steps you're referencing there are Red Mage's inane plan for getting back, where they drop the universe into a pair of universe sized portable holes that they somehow made with no materials. It has nothing to do with where they are while discussing their plan, which is simply "outside the universe".

Edit with source:
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/07/09/episode-1150-stuck-in-the-middle-with-you/
The idea was that they would bring reality to them. >_>

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Dying breath, light my blade and sing in shadow! Omega!

Well creating universe sized portable holes out of nothing does sound kind of magical to me, and the anti-Sarda plan *did* call for casting every single spell in existence simultaneously because that was the only thing that could actually take up enough of his attention to get him distracted <_<

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

hey MWC, tell me how Sarda can do anything to Yuki when she's in a place he has no control over

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