Board 8 > Possibly the dumbest news story I've read in awhile

(+) Yeah! (+)

I noticed that article, but I didn't click on it.

I didn't feel it was worth it and the kid may as well go change his gender already

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Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.

Emporer_Kazbar posted...
Why even call it the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts if the other gender can join? Why not just merge them and call them the People Scouts?


To be fair, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts aren't really equal in activities... At all, so it's not really like they took the same thing and just made a male and female component of each.

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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there's no alternative, so no reason they shouldn't join. and kinda ignores the most obvious piece that htis is the girl scouts. it's not an issue of 'well you don't accept girls/boys!' because that's self-evident. they're just trying to go 'well he identifies himself as girl sooo' as some kind of excuse when really, stick with biology. it's clearcut, there's no debate or issues. go by the sex of the kid as the standard. it's not the cleanest analogy basically.

and it definitely wasn't 'situations like this.' it was the case of chicks who wanted to play football or wrestle. not chicks who went 'so i think i should've been born with a dick now gimme a helmet and pads. no not those.'

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
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Silly nerds and their intolerance!

Have some empathy. Just because you can't personally understand something doesn't mean it's not real.

--
It's iubaris, not Lubaris.

From: StealThisSheen | #053
Emporer_Kazbar posted...
Why even call it the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts if the other gender can join? Why not just merge them and call them the People Scouts?


To be fair, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts aren't really equal in activities... At all, so it's not really like they took the same thing and just made a male and female component of each.

That's irrelevant. The names of the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts should not be what they are if they're going to include different genders. I don't care if they DO have mixed genders in them; just change the name.

And don't pretend they couldn't very easily merge the two and make craploads of money off cookies still.

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Wanglicious posted...
there's no alternative, so no reason they shouldn't join. and kinda ignores the most obvious piece that htis is the girl scouts. it's not an issue of 'well you don't accept girls/boys!' because that's self-evident. they're just trying to go 'well he identifies himself as girl sooo' as some kind of excuse when really, stick with biology. it's clearcut, there's no debate or issues. go by the sex of the kid as the standard. it's not the cleanest analogy basically.

and it definitely wasn't 'situations like this.' it was the case of chicks who wanted to play football or wrestle. not chicks who went 'so i think i should've been born with a dick now gimme a helmet and pads. no not those.'


They were situations like this. Regardless of the REASON, it was somebody of the opposite gender wanting to get in on an activity that was exclusive to the opposite gender.

The Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are not "alternatives" to each other. The activities they do aren't really all that similar at all. It's like football and baseball. Yeah, they're both sports, but, uh...

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

...man, if you're just plain killing the name and letting any boy or girl join them regardless, then this issue still doesn't happen. as it wouldn't matter what he thinks he is (or what his parents think he is) since it wouldn't come to play. it's only an issue if you make the divide in the first place AND start using what people feel they are as the basis for it instead of a straight dividing line.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Meow1000 posted...
and the kid may as well go change his gender already

Whoa, hold up, The kid is 7.

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

From: Emporer_Kazbar | #056
That's irrelevant. The names of the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts should not be what they are if they're going to include different genders. I don't care if they DO have mixed genders in them; just change the name.

And don't pretend they couldn't very easily merge the two and make craploads of money off cookies still.

They aren't including different genders in this case, since the child identifies herself as a female, regardless of her anatomy.

This isn't like Butch McManly wanting to take up selling cookies, it's about a kid who believes they are female wanting to work and associate with other females.

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I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

activities don't really matter there. one's boys, one's girls.
if you open the gates to either one then besides butchering the name you never run into this issue.
you only run into it if you stick to what the name says and somehow start trying to expand the definition.

and the reason is exactly why the situation is different.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

From: metroid composite | #059
Whoa, hold up, The kid is 7.

So can he be a girl or not?

Or is it that he can decide to be a girl mentally and socially, just not physically? At what age is he "mature enough" to switch physically?

--
_foolmo_
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From: foolmor0n | #063
So can he be a girl or not?

Or is it that he can decide to be a girl mentally and socially, just not physically? At what age is he "mature enough" to switch physically?

Is this where you draw the line?

If your junk was crushed underneath a cinder block and you had to be castrated, are you no longer a man?

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

From: foolmor0n | #063
So can he be a girl or not?

Or is it that he can decide to be a girl mentally and socially, just not physically? At what age is he "mature enough" to switch physically?

I don't think he was attacking the kids rights to choose his/her gender. I think he's saying that at such a young age, changing his/her gender might not be something they wish they'd done in two, five, or even ten years. That's a lot of change to have to reverse.

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If anyone wants to better understand the 'phenomenon' of transgendered children, there's a This American Life segment that I found very interesting. It's 28 minutes into this episode.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/374/somewhere-out-there

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Canada's had a law since the mid-80s that any sport needs to be either co-ed, or have a male league and a female league. So...you literally can't say "Girl parts = no".

that makes sense to me. so you can either go "the most talented will be on the team" in which case it'll be rare for females to join predominantly male teams (at least by the age that it matters) or you have separate leagues altogether. I guess I'm in favor of the first mostly, though. Having male and female leagues leads to stuff like the WNBA. Better to just take the few really physically talented females and have them mix into the team.

Wanglicious posted...
activities don't really matter there. one's boys, one's girls.
if you open the gates to either one then besides butchering the name you never run into this issue.
you only run into it if you stick to what the name says and somehow start trying to expand the definition.

and the reason is exactly why the situation is different.


So then girls shouldn't have ever been allowed to play football, since they had sports like softball.

I mean, you just said girls can play football because there isn't an alternative. But now you're saying it doesn't matter. So, by your current logic, girls should have never been allowed to play football, since it was strictly a male sport. After all, they had stuff like softball, right?

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

Wanglicious posted...
you only run into it if you stick to what the name says and somehow start trying to expand the definition.

Nah, it's not necessarily expanding the definition; it's arguably just changing it.

If they're being consistent, then a kid who considered themselves a boy, and dressed and acted as such but had girl parts would not be allowed into the girl scouts.

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

hm. point, expand or change definition then.
which is just entirely weird to me. like the LAST thing you want to judge any classification on is 'so what do you feel you are.' biology's simple if you're gonna have a divide, and if you don't want one that's fine too. though at that point i gotta agree with just call 'em the scouts.

though really i don't blame that kid for the presents he wanted either. ponies? hell yeah ponies when you're 3. what's the male equivalent of that. puppy? nope that's girls too. a toy car? doesn't come close to a friggin' pony. a princess party? what's the guy equivalent. oh, the same as a sweet 16 - there isn't any.

fact is chicks get better presents early on and FAR greater celebrations than guys ever do. it starts balancing out as he gets older in terms of presents (hers drastically decrease in value, his increase until the two meet in a nice in between) though like i said, sweet 16 hits and she gets a huge party for something he'd get squat for. birthdays totally favor females more.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

my god the ****ing ignorance in this topic

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Mer

you would expect board 8 to be less terrible but i guess that's a poor expectation to have given that people like mwc populate this board

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I wish I would get ponies for MY birthday... need dat Rainbow Dash

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_foolmo_
'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods

activities don't really matter there. one's boys, one's girls.

But they're not the same activities. Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts do different things. Or at least that's the way it's always seemed to me.

--
"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka
Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!

What do the boy scouts and girl scouts do anyways? All I know about them is like girl scouts sells cookies and stuff.

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Chrono1219

boy scouts is all about merit badges, camping, outdoor skills, knots, merit badges, survival, camping, and merit badges.

the only thing i know about girl scouts is cookies.

though seriously...you guys are awfully lulz with regard to transgendered people. there are very clear cases when a person gets the anatomy of a boy and the brain wiring of a female and vice versa. sexuality in nature is a scale and not strictly an absolute.

with regard to this specific case....i am unsure what i would really call this kid. either way, the issue will likely resolve in a number of years one way or the other *shrugs*

--
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From: StealThisSheen | #053
From: Emporer_Kazbar
Why even call it the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts if the other gender can join? Why not just merge them and call them the People Scouts?


To be fair, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts aren't really equal in activities... At all, so it's not really like they took the same thing and just made a male and female component of each.

Though there does exist for teenagers something called the Explorer's and the Venture Scouts which is basically run by the same people and allows both genders. They mostly backpack, hike, and do adventury stuff like whitewater rafting.

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edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously?

From: LOLContests | #074
activities don't really matter there. one's boys, one's girls.

But they're not the same activities. Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts do different things. Or at least that's the way it's always seemed to me.

Girl Scouting focuses a lot more on domestic skills and general citizenship. Its basically junior social club with an education aspect. The education is life skills stuff like cooking, balancing a checkbook, etc.. They also do a lot of community service- probably more than the boy scouts since they don't camp as much.
As they get older, they have the option of joining the Venture scouts if they want to do more outdoorsy adventure stuff.

Boy Scouting is basically ALL about the outdoors, with skills like citizenship required, but also covers many of the same life skills as girl scouting like public speaking, managing your personal finances, how to maintain your personal health and provide first aid,etc. Just in a more independent way and generally done while camping or getting ready to camp. They also do community service, and in order to become an eagle a boy must perform at least 100 hours of service on a project of his own design.

/ Assistant Scoutmaster

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edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously?

I really feel sorry for transgender people in how it's still completely unaccepted in most parts of the world like this topic does a fine job of demonstrating.

to be honest I thought b8 would be more open minded to things like this, as this place always seems pretty liberal for a (mostly) american community, but I guess not.

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DON~!

Emporer_Kazbar posted...
Why even call it the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts if the other gender can join? Why not just merge them and call them the People Scouts?

not a bad idea, really

merge them and let the kids decide what they want to learn about

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Ginhyun
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From: Mega Mana | #002
Someone wants to be a Pawnee Goddess...

topic over

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Senjougaharaism posted...
to be honest I thought b8 would be more open minded to things like this, as this place always seems pretty liberal for a (mostly) american community, but I guess not.

B8 has always had a mix. Gay rights topics usually start an argument, for instance. Now we're on a more complex and newer issue.

Wanglicious posted...
hm. point, expand or change definition then.
which is just entirely weird to me. like the LAST thing you want to judge any classification on is 'so what do you feel you are.' biology's simple if you're gonna have a divide,

Simple for you, agonizingly distressing for the small number of kids who want to be a girl/don't want to be a girl. (Incidentally, you say "biology"--I think most doctors would agree that brain biology exists, and there is a measurable difference between female-identification brains and male-identification brains).

And...incidentally, you say "easy". What's easier: asking a kid "do you consider yourself a boy or a girl?" or asking a kid "ok, please take off your pants so that I can inspect your genitals."

Yeah, with the former I guess there's some risk with like...13 year olds that they might lie because they have a sexual motivation. But we're talking about a 7 year old. 7-year-olds don't have a motivation to lie (unless it's like "I'm jealous of my big sister and want to do that stuff"--which you can find out really fast). Really, if you can't figure out whether or not a 7 year old is sincere in 2-3 questions then you're not very good at interacting with 7-year-olds.

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Iubaris posted...
Silly nerds and their intolerance!

Have some empathy. Just because you can't personally understand something doesn't mean it's not real.

Iubaris put it best.

Girls' sports teams aren't a good analogy here (at least at the high school level and up) because a male would have an unfair advantage there.

The GLAAD statement in the article (anyone who identifies as a female should be able to join) makes a good deal of sense.

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Black Turtle shoots the lights out

sn't this the same thing as a girl wanting to join the football team?


Um, no. Football is a sport. Girlguides is a group for girls
Girlguides is for girls
Girlguides
Girl

Football is not called Boyball.

Next thing you know we'll have a boy want to enter the Female olympics teams, and roll them all.

BUT SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION

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Man, I'm totally going to just declare to everyone that I consider myself a female, and bam, instant access to women's changing rooms AND washrooms.

mirite?

From: wg64Z | #086
Man, I'm totally going to just declare to everyone that I consider myself a female, and bam, instant access to women's changing rooms AND washrooms.

mirite?

This is legitimately like claiming to be retarded just so you can ride the short bus.

IE: Ludicrously disrespectful, and making yourself look bad.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

If the kid feels like a girl instead of a boy, then she may as well be considered a girl.

This isn't some malicious plot, the kid just wants to have fun.



On the other hand the needs/wants of the many outweigh the needs of the few, so there might not be a "perfect" solution to this.



Not surprised at the close mindedness though.

Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer posted...
my god the ****ing ignorance in this topic

Naye745 posted...
you would expect board 8 to be less terrible but i guess that's a poor expectation to have given that people like mwc populate this board

In all fairness to the board, I think everyone except wang simply misunderstood the issue at first and changed their minds when they realised she was transgendered. Now maybe I'm missing something else, but don't hate the board because Wang's being insensitive, I do think most of us understand the issue.

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This is legitimately like claiming to be retarded just so you can ride the short bus.

IE: Ludicrously disrespectful, and making yourself look bad.


Oh, without I doubt I agree. But if we don't stop somewhere, then anyone who is convincing enough can get away with stuff like this.

Also, aren't there a series of psychological tests and possibly other tests to determine if one IS mentally handicapped or not? If so then that argument is moo

Man, I'm totally going to just declare to everyone that I consider myself a female, and bam, instant access to women's changing rooms AND washrooms.

But women's changing/washrooms are identical to men's. Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are not.

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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka
Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!

If there were girl scouts for 19-year olds, damn yeah I would want to be in it.

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Emporer_Kazbar posted...
From: StealThisSheen | #047
And in America, sports like football and wrestling WERE exclusive to a gender until situations like this happened. >_>
Why even call it the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts if the other gender can join? Why not just merge them and call them the People Scouts?

Bobby is of the gender the Girl Scouts target. You're confusing gender with sex.

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senorhousemouse

Bobby is of the gender the Girl Scouts target. You're confusing gender with sex.

I think you're confusing facts with wishful thinking.

From: metaIslugg | #093
If there were girl scouts for 19-year olds, damn yeah I would want to be in it.

It's called a sorority

--
_foolmo_
'so I can potentially win the guru without getting the final right?' - BlAcK TuRtLe

I wonder what's next. A white child applying for African-American scholarships? "Yeah ever since I was 2 I thought I was black"

>_>

wg64Z posted...
Next thing you know we'll have a boy want to enter the Female olympics teams, and roll them all.

5-second Google search for "olympics transgender":

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SPORT/05/17/olympics.transsexual/

So...apparently they've already got that figured out.


But it is a different situation regardless. They have male and female versions of most sports. It's not like one gender is being denied delicious cookies. Olympics is a setting that has to worry about competitive advantage and fairness. How would you go about winning at Girl Scouts, and who would care if you did?

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Oh noestrans people what are we going to do

I'm all for equality, but either do it across the board or don't at all is my stance. Either we are all "Humans" or we divide amongst our differences.