Board 8 > So liberals are called communists and scoialsts these days...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Does that mean I can now start calling Conservatives Fascist or Social Darwinists?

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Fascism is a left-wing ideology, so no


I dont mind being called a Social Darwinist though

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Isn't this getting into the same sort of territory that says it's okay to call people you disagree with nazis?

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

There was an article carried in major papers recently that current day conservatives are in fact social darwinists, and are making no attempt to hide it. They bear a lot of similarity to the politics of the American Gilded Age. So that wouldn't even be an issue.

Fascism is a left-wing ideology, so no

what what what

What

Fascism is about as far to the right as you can go.

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Chrono1219

From: Hello10000 | #001
Does that mean I can now start calling Conservatives Fascist or Social Darwinists?

Yes, you can. If you want to sound as stupid as them.

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As far as calling them fascists, that'd be incorrect usage. Conservatives might be in favor of something resembling a corporatocracy, but not a fascist state.

From: OmarsComin | #007
As far as calling them fascists, that'd be incorrect usage. Conservatives might be in favor of something resembling a corporatocracy, but not a fascist state.

Eh, I think that there are at least three different factions within the extreme right wing: corporatocracy, theocracy, and fascist police-state.

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Very few people (Smuffin) actually call liberals communists. I was joking in the freedom/equality topic, because I think that question is fairly good test of whether Smuffin would say you are a communist. For most people, "liberal" is enough of a smear already!

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For most people, "liberal" is enough of a smear already!

Pretty sure that's only a smear if you've been watching too much Fox News!

"Liberal" and "Conservative" are pretty neutral terms from a value perspective for people who aren't polarised politically, I'd say.

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Facism is more about nationalism than anything else; it's not restricted to left-wing or right-wing politics. IMO, if facism is the opposite of anything, I'd say it's the opposite of libertarianism -- facism is about the nation, libertarianism is about the individual.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

Facism is more about nationalism than anything else

sounds like how the right wing operates here when they have power

"if you don't like our bull **** wars and the fact that we're tapping your phones without warrants and sending people to overseas prisons without trial you're unamerican scum and you can geeert ooouut"

Liquid Wind posted...
Facism is more about nationalism than anything else

sounds like how the right wing operates here when they have power

The left, too.

"If you're against our environmental reforms, our health care reforms, and our economic reforms, you're against progress and either part of or a pawn for the 1%!"

Which is why I said it's not restricted to the left or right wing. BOTH sides are capable of it.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

that isn't nationalism, but it's true that all of politics is just appealing to peoples base tribal instincts, it's kind of disgusting to watch.

this seems like a non-argument

wikipedia copy/paste

Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.[3] To achieve this, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[3] Fascists advocate the creation of an Authoritarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics). Fascism is generally not considered Totalitarian, since there are arguments discussing the actual private property liberties that the Italians had still incorporated into their regime. Thus since the definition of Totalitarianism is an authoritarian regime which takes away private property rights, fascism is not Totalitarian.[4][5] That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.[7]

you can argue about what it means in the American Republican-Democrat thing but that's about as far from classical left as you can get.

Liquid Wind posted...
that isn't nationalism

I'd say it is, since the argument is less "this stuff needs to be taken care of" and more "it needs to be taken care of OUR way, or else!"

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

OmarsComin posted...
this seems like a non-argument

wikipedia copy/paste

Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.[3] To achieve this, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[3] Fascists advocate the creation of an Authoritarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics). Fascism is generally not considered Totalitarian, since there are arguments discussing the actual private property liberties that the Italians had still incorporated into their regime. Thus since the definition of Totalitarianism is an authoritarian regime which takes away private property rights, fascism is not Totalitarian.[4][5] That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.[7]

you can argue about what it means in the American Republican-Democrat thing but that's about as far from classical left as you can get.

Since you want to use Wikipedia, also on that page:

There is a running dispute among scholars about where along the left/right spectrum that fascism resides.

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Pokemon White FC: 3267 4497 6644 Name: Ash

Just curious, where does Libertarianism lie on the spectrum?

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izNotPerfect posted...
Just curious, where does Libertarianism lie on the spectrum?

Up.

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FashnQueenEtna posted...
What

Fascism is about as far to the right as you can go.


Right = individual freedom and liberty

Left = government control


The only difference between fascists and communists are what the government uses its total power to accomplish

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LMFAO I love how you're so wrong all the time.

The left is based on the equality of people,civil liberties, etc. Yes, at times at the expense of things well and good like profit. Why do you think most civil rights movements are considered to be to the Left? It's also why Communism, Socialism, and some forms of Anarchism fall into the list. All of them try to promote the equality of all people, with Anarchism being that in its purest form.

The right is based on like someone being in charge, people under him, people under them, etc. The right believes more in the "natural order" if you will rather than making changes to what that order is (of course they will push to change things back to that "natural order") which is why groups like the Reactionaries also fall onto the right. Typically, the more extreme the rule of an individual(s) the further to the right you get.

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Chrono1219

No

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SephirothG, channeling awesomeness from Mershiness.
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Can't believe I'm saying this, but I have to side with Sephy here. Rightists are for a government that protects the liberties of people, and fascists are for a government that limits the liberties of people. So it seems weird to call fascism a right-wing ideology.

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Protecting civil liberties only goes as far as maybe Oligarchy. Unless you completely reject the idea of Oligarchy, Monarchy, Tyranny, and forms of Nationalism being to the Right you have to put Fascism to the right also.

Even those "civil liberties" that the right supports is only limited to commerce too. Do you really think the right supports things like Pro Choice or Gay rights? Both sides (until you get to the middles) have a lot to say about civil liberties the difference is that The left often pushes to promote the liberties of minorities to gain equality while the right pushes to protect the liberties of those who have it.

This of course pretty much vanishes by the time you get to far down the either side (really some forms of radical socialism/Communism for the left and Oligarchy/Monarchy for the right) where then it starts to focus a lot more on where a person stands in reference to others.

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Chrono1219

ChichiriMuyo posted...
izNotPerfect posted...
Just curious, where does Libertarianism lie on the spectrum?

Up.

Actually, down. Up is Authoritarianism.



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From: RevolverSaro | #105
Actually, down. Up is Authoritarianism.

I'm pretty sure it depends on which one your using. I've seen it both ways.

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Chrono1219

From: Mershaaay | #020
Right = individual freedom and liberty

Left = government control

what?

I'm usually partial to the right, but what?

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izNotPerfect posted...
From: Mershaaay | #020
Right = individual freedom and liberty

Left = government control
what?

I'm usually partial to the right, but what?

Yeah, I'm with izNot on this one. The way I understand it:

Right = Economic Liberty, Social Control

Left = Economic Control, Social Liberty

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

actually You Americans are pretty bad at politics

It's Up is Liberal
Right is Corperationism or something like that
Left is Socialism
Down is Totalitarianism

Democrat/liberal (canada) are more center-left Up
Conservatives are right and a lil Totalitarianism Republican is like far right/more Totalitarianism.
And NDP Is more left than Liberal and up
Communism is Far Left and Down to Totalitarianism
Anarchy is Top up and all the way left
fascism is all the way right and all the way down

so yeah Today we learned politics.

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VitalVI posted...
It's Up is Liberal
Left is Socialism

Anarchy is Top up and all the way left

So you think Anarchy is Liberal Socialism. Wow.

Just... WOW.

so yeah Today we learned politics.

Sadly, you seem to have missed that class.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.

So you think Anarchy is Liberal Socialism. Wow.

Just... WOW.

Considering Chomsky identifies as an Anarcho-Socialist, that really doesn't sound weird to me. That's often used interchangeably with libertarian socialism as well. That only sounds weird in the US where we've used words like socialism to mean exactly the opposite of what they're supposed to mean for propaganda reasons.

Silly Altimadark not knowing anything

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big rigs is game of the ever

I think Anarcho-Socialist is very close, if not the same thing, to the Marxist society's economic structure. But the funny thing about that is for it to function would require both the most intricate bureaucracy and none at all.

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Facism is denying individual liberty for the sake of the state; Corporatism is the merger of state and corporate powers.

Not that you can't have both at the same time.

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There never was a post. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus.