Rules: There may be spoilers for all seven books and 8 movies Each match will last for exactly 24 hours. Any votes after that point will not count. Discussion is encouraged but not required. Make sure all of your votes are obvious. I should know who you are voting for, basically don't bury your vote in the middle of a paragraph. No alt-voting. Ties will be replayed the next day with the rest of the matches. No vote-saves or rallying for specific characters. Telling people to vote is encouraged but don't tell them how to vote! Don't complain about the seeds, they were the result of a save-my. Because matches can overlap, results will be in this topic. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/61327435
Round One Results: (1)Minerva McGonagall defeats (16)Bartemius "Barty" Crouch Jr. 19-8 (8)Quirinus Quirrell defeats (9)Rufus Scrimgeour 15-11 (5)Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody defeats (12)Lavender Brown 21-6 (4)Fenrir Greyback defeats (13)Pansy Parkinson 24-3
How on earth did Quirrell get past Scrimgeour? Oh well, that makes this match easy. I'd probably take book 1 McGonagall over book 1 Quirrell, honestly.
(5)Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody (4)Fenrir Greyback
Hmmmmm...what's the most interesting thing about Greyback? Well...the fact that he's not actually a death eater for starters, because that would upset the blood purists in the death eater ranks. Not only that, but he's quite resentful of being left on the outside, and does have a thirst for getting his due (like when he brings in Harry's group to Malfoy manner).
He actively tries to bring people into the werewolf fold with him--particularly liking children. People like the Malfoys love throwing around his name as a threat, but are visibly uncomfortable to be around him. He's taken to mauling people when not at the full moon, which seems more symbolic than anything, but is rather disturbing and creepy nonetheless.
Moody...well the trick is he's not Barty Crouch Jr. Barty does things like flattery and favouratism and turning Malfoy into a ferret to get on Harry's good side. The real Moody is...almost never enjoyable to be around. He just tends to leave people uncomfortable, whether socially uncomfortable or freezing on their broomsticks uncomfortable.
Like...what are his actual scenes? One at the start of book 5 transporting Harry. One in book 7 transporting Harry. I can't remember if he has a single scene in book 6 at all. Hmmmmmmm....oh wait, end of book 5:
Uncle Vernon swelled ominously. His sense of outrage seemed to outweigh even his fear of this bunch of oddballs.
"Are you threatening me, sir?" he said, so loudly that passers-by actually turned to stare.
"Yes, I am," said Mad-Eye, who seemed rather pleased that Uncle Vernon had grasped this fact so quickly.
"And do I look like the kind of man who can be intimidated?" barked Uncle Vernon.
"Well…" said Moody, pushing back his bowler hat to reveal his sinisterly revolving magical eye. Uncle Vernon leapt backwards in horror and collided painfully with a luggage trolley. "Yes, I'd have to say you do, Dursley"
Freaking love that scene. Ok, that scene alone is enough to push Moody above Greyback for me.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
Easy. I'm surprised to see McGonagall as a 1 seed, but she's definitely one of the better tier 2 characters. Quirrell is a pretty weak villain and is completely underdeveloped... I've just been reading the first book again and it's amazing how little he actually does up until the final showdown. I guess it mostly has to do with her writing improving as she went along.
(5)Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody (4)Fenrir Greyback
Battle of meh characters. Sadly the real Moody was way less interesting than Barty Crouch Moody, or at least he didn't show us the same level of coolness on screen. But Greyback is hardly even a character, he's just a vaguely threatening stereotype.
-- I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience
From: metroid composite | #006 Uncle Vernon swelled ominously. His sense of outrage seemed to outweigh even his fear of this bunch of oddballs.
"Are you threatening me, sir?" he said, so loudly that passers-by actually turned to stare.
"Yes, I am," said Mad-Eye, who seemed rather pleased that Uncle Vernon had grasped this fact so quickly.
"And do I look like the kind of man who can be intimidated?" barked Uncle Vernon.
"Well…" said Moody, pushing back his bowler hat to reveal his sinisterly revolving magical eye. Uncle Vernon leapt backwards in horror and collided painfully with a luggage trolley. "Yes, I'd have to say you do, Dursley"
Ah, I forgot about that one. I guess the real Moody was cool after all.
-- I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience
Quirrel is a fool. A clever, conniving fool. He's essentially Diet Peter Pettigrew, only more skilled, and less stupid. You can draw quite a few similarities between the two. Let's see... Are they both... Naïve? Check. Cowardly? Double check. Weak-willed? Checkola. Willing to let themselves be abused by a master who cares nothing at all for them for weak/non-existent reasons? Check-a-roo! So, because I harbor a deep loathing for Peter, I'm already predisposed to dislike anyone that reminds me of him, and wow does Quirrell do so. He starts out well enough: a timid, unopposing man with a pronounced stutter. I actually feel sorry for the guy. However when I get to the crux of his motivation is when his character starts to fall apart.
"I met him when I travelled around the world. A foolish young man I was then, full of ridiculous ideas about good and evil. My master showed me how wrong I was. There is no good and evil... there is only power, and those too weak to understand it... Since then, I serve him faithfully, although I have let him down many times."
This is a great quote...
...
To describe how stupid Quirrell was! Keep in mind this is a grown man, with already established ideals and morals, a supposedly intelligent man (a Ravenclaw), and yet he allows for his own world view to be rocked by one meeting with the Dark Lord? A Dark Lord he actively went seeking himself. Even in his weakest form, Voldemort was able to overcome him and sow the seeds of corruption in this man's mind in one meeting. This speaks a great deal to either Voldemort's strength or Quirrell's weakness and I don't even care to know which. And why did he go seeking out whatever remained of Voldemort after his defeat? To prove himself (oh and I think he failed).
Apparently being teased as a child and laughed at for his stutter was enough to make him develop a wicked inferiority complex. Enough of complex to drive him to track down the instigator of the last Wizarding War and learn from him. Well what he learned was that he was weak, but with an extremely vulnerable unicorn blood-leeching parasite on the back of his head he would become strong... Brilliant! Yeah, his motivations are terrible. >_>
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
I will start out my explanation by saying I take issue with Moody. My main beef with him? Inconsistencies in his character. Not just the obvious Barty Jr -> Alastor inconsistencies (though this did hurt him in my honest opinion as the real deal just couldn't compare to his impersonator), but the actual inconsistencies around Old Al. Throughout the few books he's in we're told Moody has survived so long as an Auror because he's exceedingly cautious, and indeed we're given many examples of this: when well-meaning but clumsy Nymphadora bumps into a raucous object, who's the first to tell her to keep quiet or be more careful? When stepping into potentially hostile territory who's the first to scour the area for curses and jinxes? When entering a safe zone, who's already there fortifying the protective charms while telling you to keep constant vigil? It's Moody. It's always Moody.
So why? Why in the hell would you ever trust Mundungus Fletcher as your wingman on a dangerous mission? First of all, look at how he makes his living. He's a thief and a conman. He can't be trusted. Second of all, the man is giving you every reason to believe he's going to bolt at the first sign of trouble, and that he's not happy with his post:
"Everyone here's overage, Potter, and they're all prepared to take the risk." 'Mundungus shrugged and grimaced...'
"I've toldjer, I'd sooner be a protector"
"Why'm I with you?"
Right... I wouldn't trust this man as far as I could throw him, and yet cautious old Moody put his life into this man's hands, and- shock of all possible shocks- he let him down. This is going to sound exceedingly harsh but Moody deserved that death. That was stupid. He literally implied, not once but twice right before the Battle of Seven Potters that the man could not be trusted:
"Because you're the one that needs watching" "As I've already told you, you spineless worm, any Death Eaters we run into will be aiming to capture Potter, not kill him."
So... he didn't trust him, but went along with it anyway? Was he asking to die? Up until now, Moody had always escaped every battle with his life- not all of his skin, all of his limbs, or both of his eyeballs, but always with his life. Am I to believe he managed to do so by making informed decisions such as this? Why? He wasn't pressed for time, they had weeks to plan for this. Was it because it was Fletcher's idea? Though Fletcher came up with the plan, he clearly wanted no part in its execution. Ah... was it was because he feared Fletcher would reveal his own plot to the enemy as soon as Moody let him out of his sights? Most likely the culprit. HOWEVER... as seedy as Mundungus was, he only dealt with Death Eaters when he had to. Even if he were to betray the group and reveal his own plot, had Moody never discussed the plan with him, he would not be able to identify which Potter was the true Potter any better than the Death Eaters could and the same result would come of the following struggle, only perhaps without an Auror dying.
Unless Moody wanted to die, it just doesn't add up.
Greyback on the other hand, is pretty consistent. He yearns to be something he cannot be because of his accursed blood, but revels in the honorary entitlement given to him by the Death Eaters which allow him to spill others' blood without consequence. And he loves to prey on the young and weak. He turned Lupin as a child, cursed Bill, and threatened so many others. He's pretty damn intimidating.
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
It's not like Moody had another choice right? He knew that Mundungus was a long shot, so he took the risk himself rather than putting it on someone else's neck. If he was able to find someone else to play a potter, he for sure would have taken him instead of Mundungus, but well... yeah... he didn't...
But he did have another choice. Molly Weasley wasn't even there, unless guarding her house was somehow more important than guarding the chosen one. Do protective charms no longer hold around a finite area if there's no one inside to protect, or was she perhaps there fortifying the charms? If so, they could've got Charlie to Disapparate from Romania to help. Surely he could spare one day off of work to assist an escort mission. I mean Bill's job is more important and he's taken at least a month off at this point.
Neville, Ginny, and Luna are out as they're the same age as or younger than Harry and wouldn't be granted the opportunity. Augusta was probably already on the run at this point and I don't think the Polyjuice Potion would work on a Squib like Figg, but what about any of Harry's former Quidditch teammates, who he'd developed a pretty strong bond with over the years? Hell Lee Jordan wasn't even on the team, but he might've been willing to help. You mean to tell me no one could've dropped a line to Wood, Bell, or Johnson? Or, here's the big one: Minerve McGonagall. Though she's too professional to show it openly, she was quite fond of Harry. She would've assisted for sure and her whereabouts are known. As a professor, her summer is free. So why wasn't she trusted with this mission?
Moody's options were limited, but not non-existent. They had several weeks to plan for this. If you'll remember Polyjuice is a complicated Potion and takes a long time to brew properly. It's not like Fletcher dropped the "Hey, there should be six decoy Harries" bomb 10 minutes before the party arrived at Privet Drive, unless Moody just happened to have enough Polyjuice brewed for six people to consume (highly doubtful). So it follows that he just might have wanted to die.
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ
GenesisSaga posted... Augusta was probably already on the run at this point
No way.
They were trying to take her prisoner to get Neville under control at school--kind-of the reverse of what they did to control Xenophilius Lovegood. Hence they had no reason to even pursue her until AFTER Neville returned to school and started misbehaving in front of the Carrows.
At the time of the 7-potters moment, the ministry hadn't even fallen, and the Carrows hadn't even been appointed as schoolteachers. Augusta was definitely not on the run.
On the other hand, I don't recall her being a member of the Order of the Phoenix, either. I don't think anyone in the group was in regular contact with her, which would make her a liability (if a death eater had her under the imperius curse or was impersonating her with polyjuice potion, there would be nobody in the group to say "you're acting strange").
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
But he did have another choice. Molly Weasley wasn't even there, unless guarding her house was somehow more important than guarding the chosen one. Do protective charms no longer hold around a finite area if there's no one inside to protect, or was she perhaps there fortifying the charms? If so, they could've got Charlie to Disapparate from Romania to help. Surely he could spare one day off of work to assist an escort mission. I mean Bill's job is more important and he's taken at least a month off at this point.
Neville, Ginny, and Luna are out as they're the same age as or younger than Harry and wouldn't be granted the opportunity. Augusta was probably already on the run at this point and I don't think the Polyjuice Potion would work on a Squib like Figg, but what about any of Harry's former Quidditch teammates, who he'd developed a pretty strong bond with over the years? Hell Lee Jordan wasn't even on the team, but he might've been willing to help. You mean to tell me no one could've dropped a line to Wood, Bell, or Johnson? Or, here's the big one: Minerve McGonagall. Though she's too professional to show it openly, she was quite fond of Harry. She would've assisted for sure and her whereabouts are known. As a professor, her summer is free. So why wasn't she trusted with this mission?
A. None of those people aside from McGonagall joined the Order, everyon knew about it, didn't join. B. Relying on a spells alone to protect a location probably isn't a good idea. That includes Hogwarts and especially Harry's eventual destination. And really? "you were on a sports team with Harry a coulpe of years, interested in being a human shield against the Dark Lod for him?" You kidding?
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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ
Yeah, the Order of the Phoenix had to be pretty light on people that night.
Two people escorting the Dursleys. Seven people waiting at seven different headquarters. Thirteen people escorting Harry.
They literally took Kingsley away from his post protecting the Minister because they needed more bodies.
Where was McGonnigal indeed, though--this would fit right in with the "McGonnigal is a death eater" theory that many people had proposed after book 6...except absolutely nothing came of that. I suppose you could argue that she can't be seen openly supporting the Order, because she might lose her teaching position when Voldemort takes over...but Aurthur Weasly doesn't lose his position at the Ministry even though he was present. Puzzling.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
A. None of those people aside from McGonagall joined the Order, everyon knew about it, didn't join. B. Relying on a spells alone to protect a location probably isn't a good idea. That includes Hogwarts and especially Harry's eventual destination. And really? "you were on a sports team with Harry a coulpe of years, interested in being a human shield against the Dark Lod for him?" You kidding?
A. Charlie joined the reformed OotP (perhaps after this event, but the point is he joined) B. I was implying that if Charlie were there, both Molly and Charlie wouldn't have needed to stay at the Burrow. One could've stayed and the other could've escorted Harry. And yeah. Really.. I don't know if you've heard this, but Harry Potter is the Chosen One as in the only one who could actually destroy Voldemort. It might not be common knowledge to anyone outside the Order, but maybe in that case it's high time to find some new recruits! I just don't buy that Fletcher was the best sixth "volunteer" Moody could come up with in a month when the man didn't even volunteer. Also moving target isn't exactly equivalent to stationary meat shield.
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
GenesisSaga posted... And yeah. Really.. I don't know if you've heard this, but Harry Potter is the Chosen One as in the only one who could actually destroy Voldemort. It might not be common knowledge to anyone outside the Order, but maybe in that case it's high time to find some new recruits!
It's not a known fact to most people inside the order, either. Literally Dumbledore, Ron, and Hermione are the only ones who know.
And new recruits? You don't bring new recruits into a top secret mission where you're hoping the death eaters don't even figure out which day you'll be moving. Just...no--every new recruit whom you're not sure is able to keep their mouth shut is a massive leak potential. (The death eaters wouldn't have figured it out, either, if Dumbledore's painting didn't put more value on the life of Severus Snape than Moody).
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
metroid composite posted... GenesisSaga posted... And yeah. Really.. I don't know if you've heard this, but Harry Potter is the Chosen One as in the only one who could actually destroy Voldemort. It might not be common knowledge to anyone outside the Order, but maybe in that case it's high time to find some new recruits!
It's not a known fact to most people inside the order, either. Literally Dumbledore, Ron, and Hermione are the only ones who know.
Ah.
And new recruits? You don't bring new recruits into a top secret mission where you're hoping the death eaters don't even figure out which day you'll be moving. Just...no--every new recruit whom you're not sure is able to keep their mouth shut is a massive leak potential.
To be fair, a new recruit couldn't have possibly done a worse job than Fletcher. He Disapparated the exact moment he saw Voldemort, blowing his cover instantly, and killing the Order's leader in one fell swoop. As for leak potential, it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Snape was onto both the date and the plot from the jump since Snape was the one who magicked Fletcher into suggesting the Seven Potters idea in the first place.
(The death eaters wouldn't have figured it out, either, if Dumbledore's painting didn't put more value on the life of Severus Snape than Moody).
Wait, what?
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
GenesisSaga posted... To be fair, a new recruit couldn't have possibly done a worse job than Fletcher. He Disapparated the exact moment he saw Voldemort, blowing his cover instantly, and killing the Order's leader in one fell swoop. As for leak potential, it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Snape was onto both the date and the plot from the jump since Snape was the one who magicked Fletcher into suggesting the Seven Potters idea in the first place.
(The death eaters wouldn't have figured it out, either, if Dumbledore's painting didn't put more value on the life of Severus Snape than Moody).
Wait, what?
Dumbledore told Snape to reveal the time that the Order was planning to move Harry, so that Voldemort would put even more trust in Snape. That's literally the only reason the Death Eaters knew what day Harry was leaving. The only other source of information the Death Eaters had--Yaxley--was wrong: he picked up on a false trail planted by the Order.
So yes: if not for the outside interference by Dumbledore's painting, the plan probably would have gone off without a hitch.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
Kaxon posted... I need to read the later books more, I didn't remember any of that. I've read the first four 6-7 times but I've only read DH twice.
I actually needed to read book 7 a few times before I understood all of it. Well...mostly the last 200-300 pages or so--that's the part where a crazy amount of information and theory gets crammed into a rather small space.
Only other book where I can remember missing important details on first read was book 5 (first time through I somehow missed the part where we find out Umbridge sent the Dementors). Well...and it took me a while before I picked up on just how fishy Snape's Worst Memory was. (The thing he doesn't want to show Harry is...that James was a jerk? I somehow fell for that on my first read). That scene is meant to be a bit misleading though, so I'm not embarrassed to have misunderstood it on first read...unlike the Umbridge reveal where she explicitly admits to sending Dementors.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
I always suspected there was something more to Snape's Worst Memory, considering the man pulled Harry away with that much force and vitriol before the thing even reached its completion, but I wasn't expecting Book 7's reveal at all. Plus the man had said nothing of James but how arrogant and obnoxious he was. Why would he get so angry with Harry witnessing a Grade A example of this? But in that scene's defense, if he had actually managed to uh... reveal Snape in front of all those people that'd be a pretty terrible memory worth trying to forget....
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
Yeah, to be fair I was pretty obsessive, and eventually found almost all the hints.
Bad memories you want to hide are usually things you do to others, not things that other people do to you. The only action Snape took in that entire scene was call Lilly a mudblood.
Snape and Lily were both star potion makers, and both in the slug club.
When Harry makes the comment that Dumbledore's rock solid reason for believing Snape was on his side related to feeling remorse over Harry's parents dieing, Lupin says "but that doesn't make sense; Snape hated James". (And then Harry makes a comment about how Snape called his mother mudblood and...conspicuously the room is just silent, nobody agreeing; nobody disagreeing either, but yeah).
Speaking of which, Dumbledore is completely obsessed with love. Dumbledore having a rock-solid reason for believing someone is reformed...what else COULD it possibly be but love. The dude won't shut up about the stuff.
The appearance of snape's allegiances seemed to change once per book. Book 4: critical in the capturing and interrogation of Crouch, shows disgust, is whitefaced at the idea of returning to Voldemort. Book 5: on the side of the order, but we can't help but be suspicious that he's really not. Book 6: On the side of the Death Eaters...but we can't help but be suspicious that he's really not. In particular, the explanations he gives Bellatrix has a number of holes. He first says that "nobody can lie in Voldemort's presence", but last book he said to Harry "only the most accomplished legimens can lie in his presence". He makes no mention about his capture and interrogation of Crouch. He makes no mention of the fact that he's the one who tipped off the Order of the Phoenix that Harry was in the department of Mysteries. He doesn't mention that he saved Dumbledore's life from the horcrux curse (when he could have easily let the man die). Bellatrix appears to not know these facts.
Hence it really made sense that because there was one more book Snape would have one extra layer, and be a quadruple agent.
The fact that Dumbledore begs Snape in the tower scene. Dumbledore is the guy who said "to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure". There's no way Dumbledore would be begging for his life--he just had a sociable conversation where he was upbeat and polite with about six people who came here to kill him. So...what is Dumbledore begging for if not his life? The next obvious answer would be his death. In fact, Dumbledore told Harry several times to take him to Snape, not madam Pomfrey. He obviously wants something from Snape.
And...one extra detail I didn't figure out on my own but that other people knew: apparently there was an interview where fans asked JKR about Petunia's Dementor "I heard that awful boy telling her" line, and JKR very quickly admitted that "her" referred to Lily Evans, but refused to confirm who the "awful boy" was.
Speaking of which, Snape lives in a "Muggle dunghill". Decent place to meet a muggle-born. (Although admittedly, I don't think I made that connection before book 7. Or at least, I had been thinking Snape and Lily met each other through school, not before they even turned 11).
I also didn't figure out on my own, but found other people mentioning that the form of Snape's patronus had not been revealed. (Then again, neither had Dumbledore's and there were theories about that, too).
So...yeah, to me there were like...almost zero Snape twists in book 7. Like...the only surprises were Snape knowing Lilly before Hogwarts, and his patronus being a doe (although it was obvious as soon as I saw the doe whose patronus it was; especially when it didn't speak).
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
Speaking of Snape's alliances, I noticed something wonky going on in Book 1. Snape very quickly picks up on what Quirrell is trying to do and stops him or attempts to stop him at every turn. But... why is he so intent on doing so? Later we learn that Snape believed Voldemort to be dead, despite Dumbledore proclaiming that he would return. So... does he just sense Voldy's presence? If so, why couldn't Voldy sense his? I realize he's in a weak state, so his ally-sensing skills might have been at a low, but shouldn't he have recognized Snape's voice and if so wouldn't he know Snape's loyalty lay elsewhere since the man intentionally kept him from immortality? I'm confused by this.
Was this ever explained?
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Arcanine: The best pokemon ever. Dewott: The cutest pokemon ever.
It was partially explained. Voldemort said he couldn't reveal himself to Snape in his weakened state since he didn't know which side Snape was on. I don't remember exactly what Snape's explanation was, he might have claimed he thought Quirrell just wanted the philosopher's stone for himself.
-- I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience