Rules: There may be spoilers for all seven books and 8 movies Each match will last for exactly 24 hours. Any votes after that point will not count. Discussion is encouraged but not required. Make sure all of your votes are obvious. I should know who you are voting for, basically don't bury your vote in the middle of a paragraph. No alt-voting. Ties will be replayed the next day with the rest of the matches. No vote-saves or rallying for specific characters. Telling people to vote is encouraged but don't tell them how to vote! Don't complain about the seeds, they were the result of a save-my. Because matches can overlap, results will be in this topic. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/61327435
Road to Division Semi-Finals: (1)Sirius Black defeats (16)Rodolphus Lestrange 16-0 (1)Sirius Black defeats (8)Lee Jordan 21-7
Well...character who I think is overrated, and whom I've gone on rants about before, against character who can die in a fire.
I guess these characters kind-of aren't my type, because I know they're reasonably popular in the abstract.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
Everytime I read through the books again, I like Sirius more and more. Dobby is a pretty good character, but he's also a bit... annoying. He's the cause of a LOT of trouble for Harry, and doesn't really make up for it until around the 6th book. He's a pretty good source of humor. But Sirius is perhaps one of the best things to happen to Harry. And then... he gets ripped away. How different the series would be if Sirius hadn't tried to kill that FILTHY STINKING RAT. And you know... being Harry's godfather, shouldn't he have had a say in where Harry goes? I mean Dumbledore goes all "I get to say because... I'm ****ing Dumbledore" I mean that same night, nobody believes Sirius betrayed the Potter's Dumbledore just goes and puts Harry with the worst family possible, Nobody in the Wizarding world objects? I like how he was mentioned in the very first chapter. I'd say Sirius is one of my top 5 characters in the series. Probably comes in at #4. Maybe #5.
From: Cloud and Squall | #011 And you know... being Harry's godfather, shouldn't he have had a say in where Harry goes? I mean Dumbledore goes all "I get to say because... I'm ****ing Dumbledore" I mean that same night, nobody believes Sirius betrayed the Potter's Dumbledore just goes and puts Harry with the worst family possible, Nobody in the Wizarding world objects?
Well, Sirius should have been the one to object. But it seems like he was more concerned with getting revenge on Pettigrew... and after that he didn't even bother trying to defend himself from what I remember. Kinda lame.
-- I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience
hideto posted... Sirius Black easily. Kreatcher is the superior house elf.
True. Kreacher starts off an abominable yet pitiful character and grows substantially, whereas Dobby's development is static in comparison marked by literal regressions into previous behaviors that should've been abolished. He has one of the nicer death scenes (though it still comes across as a bit rushed), but despite that Dobby doesn't really earn his high rating imo.
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Gen: you voted a second time! Not allowed, so I suggest that second vote being subtracted instead of added. That means +/- Dobby: a bazillion, Sirius: - infinity...
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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ
GenesisSaga posted... hideto posted... Sirius Black easily. Kreatcher is the superior house elf.
True. Kreacher starts off an abominable yet pitiful character and grows substantially, whereas Dobby's development is static in comparison marked by literal regressions into previous behaviors that should've been abolished. He has one of the nicer death scenes (though it still comes across as a bit rushed), but despite that Dobby doesn't really earn his high rating imo.
Even when Kreacher was in his abominable yet pitiful state, I still found him more interesting than Dobby. Up to that point we had gotten the impression that "house elves are probably generally on Harry's side, if they're disobedient at all", because that summed up Dobby. Kreacher showed us that it wasn't that simple, and we get to see the Dobby scenario from the other side, except we're left guessing and wondering if and how he'll betray the house. And just the general dynamic of the Kreacher relationships--where Hermione was the pro-house elf person who was nice to Kreacher, and naturally Kreacher hated her for being a "mudblood", whereas the purebloods in the house are generally nasty to Dobby. It was all so natural for each of the characters, but worked out quite brilliantly.
I mean yes, the good part of his character development didn't happen until book 7. But the "bad parts" were still...at very least competitive with Dobby characterization-wise.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
Well, Sirius should have been the one to object. But it seems like he was more concerned with getting revenge on Pettigrew... and after that he didn't even bother trying to defend himself from what I remember. Kinda lame.
Sirius DID object. But Hagrid had got there first, and refused to let Sirius take him. I'm not sure that he'd go after Peter if he had to look after Harry.
"Give him to me Hagrid, I'm his godfather, I'll look after him."
And what kind of fight was he going to put up? He was suspected of betraying the Potters. He was suspected of killing Peter Pettigrew a 'hero'. He wasn't even given a trial. He was just thrown into Azkaban on muggle testimony.
Sirius Black has some amazing highs in Harry Potter fanfiction. I mean, he really does. Black Comedy by nonjon with him and Harry basically slapping around an alternate universe was truly some amazing stuff. In another humor story when he takes over as head of Hufflepuff it is just amazing. Sirius is there for Harry a lot and he just brings the heat when he is well written, without a doubt one of the better characters in the fandom when he is on his A game.
On the other hand a lot of stories don't even include him if they are post-OotP and the events of said book can lead Harry to being such a whiny ***** and it is so hard to not have that reflect on Sirius. Also every story where Sirius rescues Harry from whatever and starts to call him "cub" or "pup" literally makes me want to take a sledgehammer and smash my own brains out of my head. It is infuriating.
On the other hand Dobby knows how to deliver too. Sure his role in the canon is small but this Sir Chris does not judge based off of canon, purely on fanon. Dobby at the height of his character is as loyal as anyone in any story, can be cruel, hilarious, and just as dynamic as Sirius. There is something, dare I say, magical about the bond between a young Harry Potter and Dobby that gets to me. Every time Dobby dies in a story I am going to cry and I can't help it because Dobby just wanted to do good for Master Harry Potter and sometimes doing good for the people you love means that you can't be with them any more and it is so sad and so emotional and Harry is always going to get revenge on whomever killed Dobby because you know he loved Dobby just as much as Dobby loved him and oh god I am rambling I vote Dobby
I love you Dobby ;_;/
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"intention doesn't matter? clearly your cashier degree did not require a law course." - ND to Joyrock on the legality of drinking a soda before paying
metroid composite posted... GenesisSaga posted... hideto posted... Sirius Black easily. Kreatcher is the superior house elf.
True. Kreacher starts off an abominable yet pitiful character and grows substantially, whereas Dobby's development is static in comparison marked by literal regressions into previous behaviors that should've been abolished. He has one of the nicer death scenes (though it still comes across as a bit rushed), but despite that Dobby doesn't really earn his high rating imo.
Even when Kreacher was in his abominable yet pitiful state, I still found him more interesting than Dobby. Up to that point we had gotten the impression that "house elves are probably generally on Harry's side, if they're disobedient at all", because that summed up Dobby. Kreacher showed us that it wasn't that simple, and we get to see the Dobby scenario from the other side, except we're left guessing and wondering if and how he'll betray the house. And just the general dynamic of the Kreacher relationships--where Hermione was the pro-house elf person who was nice to Kreacher, and naturally Kreacher hated her for being a "mudblood", whereas the purebloods in the house are generally nasty to Dobby. It was all so natural for each of the characters, but worked out quite brilliantly.
I mean yes, the good part of his character development didn't happen until book 7. But the "bad parts" were still...at very least competitive with Dobby characterization-wise.
Truth be told, I even prefer Winky to Dobby! At least Winky has a veritable and identifiable reason for acting the way she does: she actually loved her master and being in bondage. You could almost compare her to a housewife. In her mind, she was divorced (released) because she failed in her duties to her beloved depite trying her best and then becomes a pessimistic raging alcoholic and masochist due to losing her beloved and her purpose in life in one fell swoop.
Dobby on the other hand, hated his masters, only punished himself out of obligation when defying his masters' wills, and longed for freedom. He even had that one badass line: "Master threw [a sock], and Dobby caught it, and Dobby - Dobby... is... free". That line right there should've signified the absolute end of Dobby's mannerisms under his former master, yet that line gets totally wasted since Dobby goes right back to beating himself up whenever he defies orders- not orders from his new master, but orders from his employer, Dumbledore and from Harry, his friend.
He's no longer obligated to do such a thing, and there's nothing to suggest that he enjoys it, so why? Coming from any other House Elf this behavior would make perfect sense, but Dobby is supposed to be "different". Even among other House Elves he's regarded as an outcast, and yet he can't escape from the common trappings of his own species? For all the grandiose claims of Dobby being "special", "different", and "free", he doesn't do anything to exemplify them, except for the one time he defies Harry's wishes and saves his life despite Potter asking him to never do so again (Book 2), but I'd bet my bottom dollar had he lived through this act, he would've proceeded to bash his face in with the nearest heavy stone. >_>
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Dobby punishes himself for failure, because it's what he's been conditioned to do. Up until he meets Harry Potter -- unlike Kreacher or Winky, hes' never met a Wizard who was KIND. How he knows the Malfoys, is how he expects all wizards to be. When he first meets Harry, he expects him to be kind -- but not to the point where he stops Dobby from punishing himself.
I mean look at Kreacher. When he's forbidden to use the word mudblood, he punishes himself after using it. Not because he thinks he did something wrong -- but because he disobeyed an order.
To Dobby, the Malfoy's weren't bad masters because they made him punish himself, they were bad masters because they supported the Dark Lord.
I would say 5 death threats a week may have contributed to the Malfoys being bad masters. But the point is he should know better by that point. In fact because he's known a cruel master or two he should almost immediately recognise the difference between them and Harry or Dumbledore. In fact he refers to both of them kind at least once, and when Harry stops him from disciplining himself on one occasion and asks him why he's done so, Dobby insists that "he must". But why? He's already free at this point. He doesn't need to do so anymore as he's a Free Elf. Like I said, it would make perfect sense for Kreacher or Winky as they've both normal Elves (by House Elf standards at least) who've known at least one kind master who they'd loved to serve and would not find it extremely out-of-place to become despondent upon not living up to said master's expectations, but not for Dobby who had never known such a thing. Such obligations really should have ceased the moment he was released, or if not that, the moment his employer told him that sort of behavior was no longer required or wanted.
But nope, he falls right back into that inexplicable sense of loyalty like any other House Elf would. =/
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Cloud and Squall posted... It's Blue and Grey morality.
To us, and to Harry -- a house elf being forced to punish themselves is bad. But that's not how the House-elves see it.
Remember, it was okay for Dobby to injure Harry Potter if it meant saving his life.
This makes sense, but... while I realize this is a House Elf philosophy, I can't help but think it's a really bad philosophy. Even a very loyal dog will turn on its owner if said owner injures it repeatedly. And House Elves are stated by the MoM to be one of few species of "near-human intelligence". With that in mind, you'd think they'd have the ability to reason more than your common dog, and yet... I really wish just one House Elf would've risen above this entire line of thinking, and considering Dobby was the most unique I had assumed it would be him. In the end he kind of does, but his one act of utter defiance is too little, too late in my honest opinion. That, and it's blown out of proportion. I realize what it symbolizes: complete severance and freedom from the House of Black and all who maliciously align with it, but his death right after feels so cheap to me.
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Cloud and Squall posted... #15 | Kaxon | Posted 1/27/2012 1:54:41 AM | message detail | quote
Well, Sirius should have been the one to object. But it seems like he was more concerned with getting revenge on Pettigrew... and after that he didn't even bother trying to defend himself from what I remember. Kinda lame.
Sirius DID object. But Hagrid had got there first, and refused to let Sirius take him. I'm not sure that he'd go after Peter if he had to look after Harry.
"Give him to me Hagrid, I'm his godfather, I'll look after him."
And what kind of fight was he going to put up? He was suspected of betraying the Potters. He was suspected of killing Peter Pettigrew a 'hero'. He wasn't even given a trial. He was just thrown into Azkaban on muggle testimony.
Well, he could have said he was innocent - as far as i can remember he didn't even bother to do that. Dumbledore probably would have defended him, and he had a lot of influence.
-- I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience