GuessMyUserName posted... worst thing about casualizing smash was that casuals don't even notice or care about the mechanical differences - if they kept smash a good game, casuals would still like it because it's smash which is all they care about, and the hardcore crowd would still like it because it's a good game. everybody's happy
So true. I was never a big tourney guy or anything, but I liked being challenged by it in a non cheap way. When I invited some people over a year or so after Brawl's release and they wanted to play I said it wasn't as good as Melee, but they insisted. They were all about dat cast and wanting to see final smashes and that was about it. They didn't notice the tripping or the absurd amount of explosives or any other setbacks, they just said "it's the same game with more stuff, what's worse about it?"
Words can't express how much I hate Sakurai for killing this.
You wanted that stupid audience?
edit: also, this topic made me realize that, before Brawl came out, nobody was complaining about Melee being only for hardcore players, when in fact it has all the features for casual players as well.
Man I remember the obsession I had when the dojo was around, back when nsider used to exist. It'd be super fun to get to experience that again, even if it creates unrealistic expectations for the game. I will say this, though: anyone who thought brawl was going to be a good competitive game at any point was just deluding themselves.
From: LeonhartFour | #059 Melee was accidentally a good competitive game. That wasn't even really the intention! Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll happen by accident again!
yeah this is true
sakurai nerfed everything broken about 64
throws, z canceling, wall combos etc
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Don't worry guys, I have all the clubs SuperNiceDog barked up the right tree.
From: LeonhartFour | #059 Melee was accidentally a good competitive game. That wasn't even really the intention! Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll happen by accident again!
But then with Brawl he made sure to kill every aspect of Melee that could have had anything to do with its competitive rise. Change the airdash system so wavedash is no longer possible. Get rid of lag canceling completely. Remove hitstun so combos are nonexistent. Let's add tripping! etc.
For all he talks about "playing the game however you want" and all that, I feel like he's one of the ones who comes off the most as the guy screaming "YOU'RE PLAYING MY GAME WRONG."
Characters should never be unlockable anyway. Some of the unlock conditions are way too tedious. Nothing sucks more than being hyped for a new game and then finding out the character you want to use has to be unlocked by playing the game for 20 hours or going through some boring story mode.
Only unlockables should be extra, unnecessary stuff like costumes, profiles, etc.
I love unlocking characters in Smash Bros. For some reason, that CHALLENGER APPROACHING screen is really cool. I found unlocking the characters through Subspace Emissary relatively lame because they didn't come with that screen and that fight.
-- For your SuperNiceDog. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
firefdr posted... From: whatisurnameplz | Posted: 2/22/2012 3:07:17 AM | #055 But didn't Melee also have half-assed clones? Yea.. never said Melee wasn't also rushed
Clones are a fighting game tradition! Fox and Falco are the Ryu and Ken of Smash Bros. And Wolf is the Akuma. And maybe one day Peppy can be the Dan.
Slippy can be Sean.
-- For your SuperNiceDog. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
There's nothing wrong with "clones" so long as they're not actual clones, and so long as the player is still offered a sufficient variety of playstyles among the remaining characters.
Smash Bros. doesn't infringe on either of those two rules.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i52.tinypic.com/5206qe.gif
From: MoogleKupo141 | #067 I love unlocking characters in Smash Bros.
I used to think this too but one of my friends had his memory card wiped recently and wanted to copy my data for unlockables. I told him to let me unlock everything since it was 'more fun'. Yeah... I got like halfway through until realizing that I was just wearing nostalgia goggles and unlocking essential things like characters is stupid, especially when they've got unavoidably long conditions to fulfill like Mewtwo.
And you can't even get some stages (FD, Battlefield, DL64, etc.) until you have all the characters which takes at minimum like five hours (and that's only with 4 controllers). And Kongo 64 condition is just beyond stupid.
From: Rad Link 5 | #069 There's nothing wrong with "clones" so long as they're not actual clones, and so long as the player is still offered a sufficient variety of playstyles among the remaining characters.
Smash Bros. doesn't infringe on either of those two rules.
This. Even if they were rushed, it's not a huge point of criticism since they play very differently from each other/have different properties.
On a personal note, I can't stand two versions of the same character because they feel like such wasted spaces. Ogre AND True Ogre? Wolverine AND Bonerine? Ryu AND EVIL Ryu? Kyo AND EX Kyo? etc.
**** all of them. Except Devil Jin. He can stay since he's hot.
From: blindhobo13 | #061 Remove hitstun so combos are nonexistent.
This is the biggest issue, and it doesn't even have anything to do with making a competitive fighting game. It's about making ANY kind of fighting game. No combos = no fun.
The problem with the next smash is that, since we already experienced the disappointment of Brawl, if he does another Dojo, it won't be even 10% as hype as the last one.
-- _foolmo_ 'Oh please, if foolmo made that analogy you'd think it was picture perfect' - Biolizard28
From: foolm0ron | #072 This is the biggest issue, and it doesn't even have anything to do with making a competitive fighting game. It's about making ANY kind of fighting game. No combos = no fun.
I don't know if you mean literally no combos or not, but the Samurai Shodown series's niche is games where zoning is king and combos aren't important.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i54.tinypic.com/2a5gdux.gif
From: foolm0ron | #072 This is the biggest issue, and it doesn't even have anything to do with making a competitive fighting game. It's about making ANY kind of fighting game. No combos = no fun.
The problem with the next smash is that, since we already experienced the disappointment of Brawl, if he does another Dojo, it won't be even 10% as hype as the last one.
Characters should be unlocked because of something Yahtzee pointed out. If you just want to have fun with the game, and invite some friends over to play, you'll feel compelled to unlock everyone before playing with others. But then you've got so much experience that you can't even play with them.
For as much as I hate Brawl (and I hate most of it other than parts of the soundtrack and the fact that DK is finally viable 'competitively' to some extent), it's hard for me to specifically blame Sakurai for this. Nintendo's attitude toward him has always been particularly harsh, especially since Iwata kind of just forced him onto the project, despite his best efforts to turn away from it. Melee was damn good since Sakurai gave a damn about it, and then a miracle happen that made it even better; hopefully he's giving a damn about this game, as well.
Also aw yeah time to camp out the site for weeks and feel depressed every time that K. Rool isn't the star of the update. Then cry if he's an assist trophy.
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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvb2chGY8D1qm7gfoo1_500.jpg SuperNiceDog? More like SuperChillGuy. Who is better than me at brackets by a mile.
The meat of any Smash Brothers games is it's characters. And you have to select one! You cannot select two, or three, or four. You may only select one. So pick wisely! Selecting a character will be easier than ever!
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See You In Another Life, Brother. New York Giants - The Patriot Slayers
Words can't express how much I hate Sakurai for killing this.
Is it just me or is competitive Smash a bunch of white kids trying to replicate Marvel 2 hype but instead just sounding like idiots saying "son" at the end of every phrase
-- The Temple of Kraden, a forum for fans of Golden Sun: http://z9.invisionfree.com/The_Temple_of_Kraden/index.php?act=site
Great_Paul posted... Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario would be awesome
I agree with this. There are other characters I'd rather see first, but I think Bowser Jr. could be a cool character if Shadow Mario is incorporated somehow.
-- For your SuperNiceDog. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
From: WazzupGenius00 | #087 Is it just me or is competitive Smash a bunch of white kids trying to replicate Marvel 2 hype but instead just sounding like idiots saying "son" at the end of every phrase
That seems like a pretty on-point description
-- _foolmo_ 'Most people at least try to say something funny. See foolmo's post as an example.' - The Real Truth