From: AlecTrevelyan006 | #053 Damnit, I want to hear feedback from the non-book obsessed people.
thought it was a pretty decent episode even though not a whole lot happened because they had to introduce a bunch of people
tyrion pretty much made it
i like stannis and melisandre, although i don't quite get what happened with the poison
who poisons a chalice and then drinks out of it first? worst plan ever
i also didn't quite understand how they have a comprehensive list of all of robert's bastards, didn't they say last season that gendry didn't know he was robert's son or something?
i also might be an extreme minority but i think joffrey is the best thing about this show
-- TimCop*courtesy of punny* http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2826/timcop.png
From: TimJab | #101 who poisons a chalice and then drinks out of it first? worst plan ever
That's actually kind of the point. It was to show that the wine 'was not' poisoned by him drinking it first (even though it was) <.<
It wasn't very well explained in the show for sure, though.
EDIT: Also I think it was something like he was going to kill himself for going against his king as well or something. Been a long time since I read the books. It's not amazingly important anyway.
From: tcaz2 | #103 That's actually kind of the point. It was to show that the wine 'was not' poisoned by him drinking it first (even though it was) <.<
well yeah i get that but usually you don't poison the wine until after you take a sip
and you certainly don't do it with a poison that kills you instantly
did melisandre actually take a sip? does she have some kind of power?
-- TimCop*courtesy of punny* http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2826/timcop.png
From: TimJab | #101 i also didn't quite understand how they have a comprehensive list of all of robert's bastards, didn't they say last season that gendry didn't know he was robert's son or something?
Didn't they have a list last season? That's how Ned found Gendry I thought.
And as far the poison, the book has the maester poison the cup and then proposes to share the wine with Melisandre to celebrate the Lord of Light. She agrees and then says, "It is not too late to spill the wine, Maester." The maester whispers no and then she drinks it and offers it back. She ends with, "He does have power here, my lord, and fire cleanses."
Less rushed and introduces the Lord of Light's power that I believe she neglected to mention right after.
-- Menji+ What Will Never Be the Greatest. http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8184/ffxiii.gif
Like I said, Joffrey is Commodis. They're bad guys but you feel for them because you see exactly how they turned that way. We live in a world so quick to demonize because humanizing people is much more difficult and terrifying because people are scared to death that we are just that: human. And if you can humanize Joffrey or Commodis than it means you could easily be like them if you were in their position.
Joffrey had a mother and entire family that bred itself off if power, narcissism, and regality. They trained him to look down on others because they were beneath him. But they weren't done ruining this kid. Turns out his uncle is his dad and his real dad is a womanizing alcoholic. And not one of those behind closed doors kinda guys; Robert had so many bastards they made a list.
Gladiator is my mothers favorite movie and she hates Commodis. Even when I explained to her his father is the true villain. She understands and agrees with me but my mother, like most people, just find it easier to cheer against him than understand him.
Anywho Joffrey the best. Him and Dany would have hate sex and kill everyone.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
I just think he should have been more subtle about actually poisoning the cup, like do it under the table so only Davos could have seen it, and the poison shouldn't have been so quick acting. Like Melisandre should have drank before it started acting on him, yet still had that knowing look like she knew she was drinking poison. I think they were trying to make it clear she knew she was drinking poison yet was unafraid, but it just looked awkward with the guy dying so fast.
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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG
i don't even think you need to look at his upbringing to explain his behavior as king
how old is he, 13? he seems to be acting like almost any 13 year old would when given unlimited power
he might be a little (or a lot) more bloodthirsty than average, but i don't think that's a result of him being spoiled. there's just something wrong in his head to begin with i think
From: Menji76 | #104 Didn't they have a list last season? That's how Ned found Gendry I thought.
I thought Ned found Gendry by retracing what Jon Arryn did before his death. He was looking at the book with the descriptions of the Baratheons, and he knew Jon Arryn visited Gendry... seemed like he pieced it together independently.
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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.
There's nothing wrong with people from the beginning. Some people are born mentally challenged or with certain diseases but no one is born total dick.
It takes a special kind of upbringing to make a kid like Joffrey. That's the unique blend of being better than everyone else but hating yourself kind of spite. He showed Sansa her dead fathers head. That's not just sadistic but shows how spiteful he is towards someone whose father actually cared about them.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
that's a very interesting point regarding him showing her ned's head, and pretty impressive if that's what martin actually intended
but i think you're way off on your assessment that people can't be born with something "off" that makes them a psychopath
richard chase killed people and drank their blood because he thought nazis were trying to turn his blood into powder with a poison they injected into his soap
My main problem with Joffrey is that he has absolutely no business having that kind of power. It feels like Ned was completely cheated by being killed by such an unworthy foe, making his death that much more distressing than if he had been cut down by someone like Jaime. Joffrey is a petulant child that was handed the world.
On the other hand, I do recognize that Joffrey killing Ned probably leads to a better story; the indignation we feel at Eddard's death drives us to care more, and someone like Jaime wouldn't be stupid enough to kill him. I can understand why that would make some people feel like Joffrey is a good character, but I just can't stand him.
-- No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE
(Warning: there may be very, very, very small spoilers about characters we haven't met yet. As in: you'll know how these new characters look like. If that's something that bothers you, I would maybe avoid looking too deeply, but seriously, it's really nothing.)
And yeah, Joffrey's not really 'evil' per se. A monster, perhaps, but I've always seen him more as a pathetic, despicable creature than an evil character, really.
-- When you have nothing to say, quote yourself ~ Solfadore
Joffrey is definitely one of the best characters written in the series. To the naked eye, he's cruel and just rotten, but underneath it all, he's really just a boy who longs to please his father.
All this reminds me of a thought I had rewatching the first season. If though some extremely twisted and impossible scenario that Joffrey could have turned out alright. Like if Ned decided to honor his Roberts last wish and try to bring up Joffery to be a great king and if the Lanisters could stop being poison for one damn second and...well this is where I get to before I realized that kid was doomed from the start.
From: LordoftheMorons | #118 My main problem with Joffrey is that he has absolutely no business having that kind of power. It feels like Ned was completely cheated by being killed by such an unworthy foe, making his death that much more distressing than if he had been cut down by someone like Jaime. Joffrey is a petulant child that was handed the world.
On the other hand, I do recognize that Joffrey killing Ned probably leads to a better story; the indignation we feel at Eddard's death drives us to care more, and someone like Jaime wouldn't be stupid enough to kill him. I can understand why that would make some people feel like Joffrey is a good character, but I just can't stand him.
I think that's intended. You're supposed to hate Joffrey, and just in case there were people out there that didn't hate him yet, you have him make a rash decision to kill one of the most popular characters on the show, who happens to be an innocent (well, technically not but still) man. And if you already hated him and wanted him dead (which I assume most people did after the business with the butcher's boy), now you hate him even more. He's a remarkably well written (and acted) character. His comeuppance will be bittersweet.
Most serial killers have the same things in common and it isn't being born "psycho". Sadists like Joffrey are made. They very clearly point out his cause.
Joffrey killing Ned was so perfect for the EXACT reason you hated it: Ned was the better man. He was a better man than everyone else and that's exactly why he lost. You don't want good soldiers running your kingdom, you want good kings.
To be a king you can't relate to the common people you just have to seem relatable. Joffrey gives the people what they want; he whips them into a frenzy and gives them blood.
Anywho,, tonight's gonna be great. I'm on West Coast Time Zone so I'll post thoughts and such tomorrow.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
it's a real sign of how great Jack Gleeson is doing with the role when you see discussions like this. honestly I've rarely ever seen this kind of discussion into the depth of the character on any of the forums for the books that I've been to, just people saying Joffrey is one of the most awful characters in the series. yet for the tv viewing audience it only takes 1 season to generate this kind of polarizing opinion on him.
Joffrey's caricature is one of my all time favorites in media.
I loved malfoy. Commodis is Probably my favorite movie character of all time. These guys are so conflicted and butchered by years of pompous regality.
Having no expectations seems hard until you meet someone with every expectation in the world. Yes, knowing you're goin to rule is great but it's also tragic. Joffrey had no other choice, He was born and bred to be this person. Hes also a little kid as Tim pointed out. A little kid who never learned empathy or understanding, aka the real differences between good and evil people.
Gleason plays it with a robust fervor that becomes palpable with each action. Having knights fight to the death. Drowning a drunken knight before he gets killed. Everything he does with Sansa. The way he threatens his mother and then spitefully kills babies.
Think about that. A teenage boy is willing to show his future wife her fathers head on a stick and then kill babies that might be his fathers bastards. This isn't Heath ledger making you hope the Joker wins; Gleeson makes you hate his guts because he understands the character.
Plus he has a face you just want to DESTROY.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
From: Theon_Greyjoy | #132 Felt like this episode was weaker than the S2E1
You're the first person I've seen say that!
But they're both basically set up episodes so it's no big deal.
I... might agree with that, if only because I'm not sure yet how I felt about a few scenes here compared to the books. Nothing huge, but there were a few things that just seemed a bit out of place for some characters to me. Then again, I think this episode also had better scenes than S2E1 had at times, so who knows.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
I've said he has a very punchable face and people always look at me like I'm crazy.
It's just one of those faces you see and your fist is just drawn to it like a magnet.
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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE] http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif
From: KamikazePotato | #136 At times I feel like Joffrey deserves to be called the best actor on the show. Then someone else has a scene. So many good actors.
I'd give it to Littlefinger, but then I'm pretty biased in that Littlefinger is my favorite character. Joffrey's acting is excellent though.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
Cersei Lannister best actor on the show. Not really close right now. She plays the part with this cruel indignation that only works because of those moments where she opens the armor and shows the scars.
The most memorable non Dany scene from Season 1 was when she truly empathized with Neds Wife. At first you think it's a ruse but then you see her face and she is really upset. Not because of what she did but because she knows how a mother feels.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
I'd probably give best actor to Littlefinger but it took him an episode to warm up. Eddard and Robert Baratheon are up there...no one seems to mention Robert much but I definitely think he was one of the best actors. Tyrion is great in serious scenes but when he's being loud and boisterous I kind of cringe. Jorah Mormont is great too.
On that note realo: Viserys did a great job with his small time last year. Not as good as Joff, but even though there is some insanity in his family, so much of him is clearly from his upbringing.
Basically at six years old he becomes the last heir to a great but overthrown dynasty, and he spends a decade wandering around, always having to fear assassins or being sold out to Robert's men, just trying to find a way to survive and with the pressure to return and achieve his birthright.
(still waiting for that blog link, I want to add you to my reviews to read after episodes)
I think realo is both right and wrong. Nurture definitely has a big impact on a person and it's clear that the Lannisters and Roberts whoring have shaped Joffrey into what he is, but that doesn't mean a person is defined by how they were raised and their experiences. They can make their own choices. Joffrey certainly isn't a victim for how he's been raised, he's embraced it. His mother didn't tell him to drown that fool in wine, he desired it for his own twisted amusement.
Case in point, Tyrion Lannister. Tyrion shouldn't have a spark of kindness in him with the lot he was dealt, but he's possibly the most moral character in the show.
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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG
Some men of the Night's Watch do mention to Sam or Jon that Craster sacrifices his sons to the Others, but it is never shown or confirmed to be true. This scene really bothered me. The entire time reading the books, the Others are this mysterious force that hardly ever show up, and are truly terrifying if they do. You don't know what they are, where they are, or where they come from. But in this scene, they're just hanging out near Craster's house. It kind of lessons the threat, honestly.
*end spoilers, though I don't think there were any, really*
Also, the way they portray Stannis is just... ugh. He's supposed to be the most honorable man in Westeros, but here we have him dropping his pants after like 8 minutes of screen time. Yes, he does have sex with Melisandre in the books, but that's never described and only hinted at, and you could easily miss the implication.
From: xp1337 | #137 From: KamikazePotato | #136 At times I feel like Joffrey deserves to be called the best actor on the show. Then someone else has a scene. So many good actors.
I'd give it to Littlefinger, but then I'm pretty biased in that Littlefinger is my favorite character. Joffrey's acting is excellent though.
Huh, that's strange. Based on Season 1, Aidan Gillen/Littlefinger is actually the only actor who really disappointed me (along with Shae). Maybe because LF is a top 5 character for me (probably top 3, even), but I really didn't like the way he portrayed him. In the book, Littlefinger is very charming, very affable, and though you know he's sneaky and probably shouldn't be trusted, you can't help but go along because he's really upfront about it and he has this weird charm. The mockingbird does fit him really, really well.
Gillen's portraying him like a weasel. A weasel which likes to make quips, sure, but a weasel nonetheless.
Haven't seen tonight's episode yet, though, so maybe my opinion of him will improve.
-- When you have nothing to say, quote yourself ~ Solfadore
Honestly, this season is the one that has me more uneasy about Littlefinger so far. As mentioned, in the first episode there was the scene with Cersei that just struck me as... not something Littlefinger would start, not sure I was much happier with this episode either.
Definitely think they need to get him more into exchanges like the ones he had with Varys in Season 1, those were some of my favorite scenes in the entire series so far.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX