Board 8 > Surprised no one is talking about the "new Playstation" [ps4] [orbis]

(+) Yeah! (+)

If these rumors are true, it seems like a good time to try to wean myself off video games. I understand the reason for it, but I don't think it's going to help the industry as much as they hope it will. It really seems counterproductive to me.

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"Filthy lawbreaker, unhand that vending machine!" - Casey Jones

It's pretty safe to say that all consoles forward will have digital distribution of pretty much every retail game.



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Ok everyone this is Bartz so just remember.

Because it just plain ain't true.

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The King Wang.
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From: FateStayAlbion | #100
And what about when the systems go down? What happens to your games and your ability to buy them then?

Yeah, that's the ultimate issue. Theoretically it should never be a problem unless something insane happens like the Internet goes down. These games, and their source code, are always gonna be stored SOMEWHERE. You can't really lose them as long as the Internet is alive.

Steam says in their contract that if they ever close down, they will just give everyone DRM free installers for all their games. I dunno about PSN.

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_foolmo_
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I wasn't planning on buying a new system anyway. I'm pretty happy with Steam now.

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Tornadoman78:
tornadoman and tornadogirl like to kick box each other in my tornaolayzers and she dosent even mind getting hit

From: 3DSRage | #457
Blocking out used games isn't too terribly bad.

No, this is never a good thing. It's ****ing astounding that people think this is somehow a good thing. This isn't going to help the industry at all. This will actually damage the damn industry. It's mind boggling that people think this is somehow okay.

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Tornadoman78:
tornadoman and tornadogirl like to kick box each other in my tornaolayzers and she dosent even mind getting hit

Yes it will hurt the industry a ton! Think of all the people who buy used games and like them so much that they go out and buy the game new!

Oh wait

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Ok everyone this is Bartz so just remember.

If it's tied to an account, if your system goes down then you just transfer your account to a new console and redownload what you've lost.

Pretty damn simple.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

More likely that they won't buy the consoles in the first place...

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The Real Truth posted...
From: 3DSRage | #457
Blocking out used games isn't too terribly bad.
No, this is never a good thing. It's ****ing astounding that people think this is somehow a good thing. This isn't going to help the industry at all. This will actually damage the damn industry. It's mind boggling that people think this is somehow okay.

....No, it will help the industry. A lot. Because all that money they would get from games is going straight to the developers and publishers.

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Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Although if this means that you have to be online in order to play games just to verify they're your own game, THAT will be an issue.

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Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

It's an odd debate because buying used isn't an inherently bad thing, but remember that when you do buy used, you're not supporting the developer and/or publisher.

But then again, there's the issue of price. If you don't have enough money to afford X game but at a used price you can afford it, I see nothing inherently wrong with a person doing that.

It's a tough balancing act, cause there's plenty of used markets for items and the companies are still fine.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Early April Fool's Joke?


I don't think anyone in their right mind would force an internet connection to play all of their games. Completely illogical. I can definitely see more companies going the way EA did and force you to buy an online pass if you want to play a used game online.

Hell, it almost completely destroys what PS3 has allowed users to do with the current system by allowing up to 6 consoles to all download the same content from the PSN. My buddies and I all linked our PS3s so we don't all have to download the same things and can share them instead. You have to trust the people you link your system to since they have access to your password and junk, but Sony has no issues with it. Locking a game to your system basically means you can't borrow your friends games to play.

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You can't compare the used game market to any other used market except perhaps used dvds. A used game is unique in that there is no decrease in functionality that is apparent in other used products (such as furniture, vehicles, or dwellings). In fact, I'm surprised used games even has a market, considering that all other software may not be purchased used.

Are people going to stop buying Microsoft, Adobe, or other softwares because you can't get them used? Of course not. People will continue to buy games even without used sales.

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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/bokbokbokpngur.png
Ok everyone this is Bartz so just remember.

I bought NCAA '12 used because I was in a hurry to get it one night and K-Mart (the only store nearby at the time) didn't have it new. Neither did GameStop, but they had it Used.

I then turned around and payed EA $10 directly for an Online Pass.

Since I wanted the game THAT night specifically to play with friends, I probably wouldn't have bought it new if I had to wait, since it was more or less all sudden impulse.

Stuff like Online Passes are a much simpler/more logical way to dealing with used game sales than just... One game = One system.

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KingButz posted...
You can't compare the used game market to any other used market except perhaps used dvds. A used game is unique in that there is no decrease in functionality that is apparent in other used products (such as furniture, vehicles, or dwellings). In fact, I'm surprised used games even has a market, considering that all other software may not be purchased used.

Are people going to stop buying Microsoft, Adobe, or other softwares because you can't get them used? Of course not. People will continue to buy games even without used sales.

There's plenty of used items that don't decrease in functionality by becoming used, and technically if you get a game that's slightly scratched its technically possible to suffer from a decrease in functionality.

I mean, want examples? Jewelry comes to mind as one of the biggest examples.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

From: OctilIery | #510
....No, it will help the industry. A lot. Because all that money they would get from games is going straight to the developers and publishers.

No, it really won't. The only way used games work are if everyone starts having deals as low as what Steam has. There's an attempt at too much control here, and it's going to backfire. What about people who want to borrow a game? What about a game which doesn't sell too well, but does much better with the sequel? Typically this is from word of mouth/borrowing/purchasing the game on a whim at a cheap price (which is when it tends to be a used game). You know what? Whatever. I had a similar argument a few years back about where DLC would go and people called me dumb. I hope you guys get what you want.

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Tornadoman78:
tornadoman and tornadogirl like to kick box each other in my tornaolayzers and she dosent even mind getting hit

No, this is never a good thing. It's ****ing astounding that people think this is somehow a good thing.

I am not waving my arms up and down and saying this is a great thing. I am simply saying that there are positives to it on one side of the board or another. I choose to avoid looking at it with foggy or traditional eyes.

The Real Truth posted...
From: OctilIery | #510
....No, it will help the industry. A lot. Because all that money they would get from games is going straight to the developers and publishers.
No, it really won't. The only way used games work are if everyone starts having deals as low as what Steam has. There's an attempt at too much control here, and it's going to backfire. What about people who want to borrow a game? What about a game which doesn't sell too well, but does much better with the sequel? Typically this is from word of mouth/borrowing/purchasing the game on a whim at a cheap price (which is when it tends to be a used game). You know what? Whatever. I had a similar argument a few years back about where DLC would go and people called me dumb. I hope you guys get what you want.

Those people were right. DLC right now for the most part is fine, and this is going to be a good thing for the industry overall.

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Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Arguing that used games benefit the industry is a little crazy. You can say it limits consumer choice, but it does not help the industry, or the people who make the games, because the money only goes to places like GameStop. Regardless of the price a game is, buying new is always going to help the industry over buying used, especially nowadays where sales are such an important thing.

Also, 'tied to your PSN account' doesn't mean 'must be online to play.' It means it's tied to your account, online or offline, and can't be played by someone else with a different account. That point should be clarified, unless I missed a part where it said 'must be online.'

In any case, "rumors." I would put as much into these as the Xbox won't have a disc drive rumor.

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

ZFS posted...
Also, 'tied to your PSN account' doesn't mean 'must be online to play.' It means it's tied to your account, online or offline, and can't be played by someone else with a different account. That point should be clarified, unless I missed a part where it said 'must be online.'

http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-playstation-to-lock-out-used-games-report-6368582

"Players will not be able to circumvent the system by remaining offline, as the source said users will be forced to be connected to the PSN to boot up their games."

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Yeah, that won't be true.

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ZFS posted...
Yeah, that won't be true.

And you know this because?

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Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Because Sony will not make it a standard feature of the console. There are numerous issues with such a thing, with almost no upside, and there would be a smart group of people within the company that would bring that to attention. There are better ways to get around used games, keeping it limited to a single account, without requiring an Internet connection all the time. It was likely an idea that was floated around at Sony, but it will be implemented in a different way, if at all.

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Will lock new games to a PSN account as an anti-used games measure.

done

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case you people gave love a bad name-ertyu

From: The Real Truth | #106
No, this is never a good thing.

Why?

No one is actually attached to the concept of used games itself, they just like getting games cheaper than full price. Sure, collectors like getting the physical box, but that won't change if you get rid of used games... you'll just buy the used box.

But anyone who talks about used games is talking about cheaper games. There's nothing inherently special about a used game that makes it desirable. If you went to Gamestop and they were selling FFX new for $10 and used for $20... you would get the new one, right? I can't think of any situation in which you would want the used one.

So now that we have established that used games themselves aren't what's important to consumers, then we can understand how getting rid of used games can THEORETICALLY be a good thing for consumers and publishers.

There's a huge problem with requiring people to be connected to the internet to play games. What if your internet dies while planning a game? Does the console kick you out of the game because your internet isn't reliable enough?

I'm not even sure how that would be handled. Not everyone is going to have reliable internet, as some ISPs are known for being unreliable at times.

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Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~
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this is a lot of posts for something that obviously won't happen.

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iphonesience

although, regarding used games, it's pretty damn clear where all the money goes

During the course of the year Gamestop made $1.6 billion from sales of new hardware, and $113.6 million in gross profit; $4.04 billion from new game sales, of which $839 million was profit; and $2.6 billion from second-hand sales, of which $1.2 billion was profit.

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add the c and back away
iphonesience

Hopefully not true. Only really care bout the BC though cause whatever on hte locking to a PSN account. If you want to play the game at a friends house you can just log onto your PSN on their system.

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transcience posted...
this is a lot of posts for something that obviously won't happen.

Really? I'm surprised its not more post seeing as how its the major gaming news right now (even the poll of the day is about it).

Anyway, I don't see why people think this is far fetched. Its been rumored for a while that both Microsoft and Sony want to get rid of used games, and they do hurt their bottom line significantly... People will be pissed off, but in the end I doubt it'll get enough people to refuse to buy the systems to hurt them. People will still want to play the new games and they'll have to suck it up and accept stuff like no used games to be able to do so... Its really all up to Microsoft and Sony if they want to go this route.. especially if they both do it. Then you have no choice.

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It's worth remembering that a large percentage of console owners never go online with their consoles. I doubt either Sony or MS want to give up that market.

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Kotetsu534 posted...
It's worth remembering that a large percentage of console owners never go online with their consoles. I doubt either Sony or MS want to give up that market.

I think that has more to do with laziness since they don't play online games than anything. The people I know that don't go online just feel its not worth it since they play single player games.

If it was forced, they'd get online.

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I'm a PC player first, that has a console for when I feel it's warranted. I'm going to feel a lot less warranted by these measures. And I rarely buy used.

I don't like that Steam has a semi-obligatory online component, but there's two major differences. The first is that Steam goes on a computer. If you have a computer that isn't on the internet, you're missing out on just about anything you can do with it short of typing Word documents. The only real reasons to want your console online is to play with friends or obtain DLC, which doesn't even matter that much to me any more. (It did when I avidly played GH and RB.) The second reason is that Steam's internet is NOT obligatory -- there's an offline mode and it works fine for games that have no online component inherent to the game itself. Both of those points were sniggling issues sticking in my craw before I started using Steam, and while my concerns have been assuaged regarding Steam usage, they're for reasons that don't sound like they would extend to console usage.

I'm also a big believer in physical copies of things. It's easy to say "I just download my music," but what would happen if (hypothetically speaking) something happened to iTunes? Either directly to it, or your account gets suspended or something. What then? I've still got my CDs, and they aren't going anywhere. I can still rip them for a digital copy. Is this an archaic mode of thinking? Perhaps. But I like getting a "thing" when I spend money.


I understand the need to curb the used game market. It's money not going into the pockets of the creators (of the game, the distribution of the game, or of the platform it was created on,) but is it really necessary to take such Spartan measures? There's gotta be an easier way than literally forcing everyone to pay for the game new. Frankly, there's some games that I will just never play if I have to pay $60 for them -- I only pay full price for games that I will get $60 worth of enjoyment out of. The last full-price game I got was Skyrim, and the next will be Diablo. I've found a few games between Skyrim and now, but not things I would have enough interest to buy full price.

From: FateStayAlbion | #133
I think that has more to do with laziness since they don't play online games than anything. The people I know that don't go online just feel its not worth it since they play single player games.

If it was forced, they'd get online.

Not really. There really are tons of people who just don't have a wireless router, or are in places where internet isn't available.

Anyways, I don't get why you think these rumors are so iron-clad. I know you like kotaku and all, but seriously. The anti-used games stuff is likely, sure, but the always-online thing? Definitely not likely at all. Ubisoft already did that experiment.

From: azuarc | #134
There's gotta be an easier way than literally forcing everyone to pay for the game new. Frankly, there's some games that I will just never play if I have to pay $60 for them

See, this is the problem with saying something like "PS4 will have no used games". Everyone knee-jerk assumes a worst-of-all-worlds scenario.

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_foolmo_
'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods

There is no way they would force you to always be online to play any type of game, there would have to be some type of offline mode that you would be able to play after you registered a game to your account. You probably will need to have it connected to the internet to register the game, but having some type of internet connection to do that should not be a problem for anyone that is buying a $500+ next gen console and if it is then they really are doing things wrong. Getting rid of used games shouldn't be a huge deal if they are adding an online store as well since I'd fully expect a steam type system of them having sales or at least making older games around the price that used games sell at anyway. The only thing that really affects are the people who sell their games after they play them......and yea i guess that sucks for them.

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