mnkboy907 posted... I got a little disillusioned with Grovyle when I realized how crappy it was to raise in White. It's really fragile and has crap attacks until it learned Leaf Blade at level 29.
Fun fact: About 2 years ago, I could never beat Pokemon Ruby with Sceptile in my party. Ever. Literally, my Magneton did Sceptile's job better than it could, and my starter got the PC box treatment.
But since I learned how to experience grind, I never had to face that problem again. Tough(er) for Pokemon but possible.
Anyway, star really is the right man for this job. I really like the depth and breadth that goes into these analyses? How long do these take you, anyway?
Haha, thanks barrel :). That makes me feel pretty good :D.
They don't really take me terribly long... I've never really monitored it, but I think it takes somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes. I have an Excel thing to do most of the calculations somewhat quickly, and since I'm usually thinking about the analysis as I go, it doesn't take terribly long to write.
Yeah, I thought Frisby was a girl for the longest time, too. You have quite the misleading name. Anyway... time for more stats!
Fighting
Winner: Infernape (Generation IV)
Key: Generation | Number in top/bottom ten | Expected | Difference
Yes, I know the expected value of 0 is a bit weird for Gen II, but it’s just how the numbers ended up working. It only had three participants.
Top 10 Breakdown Gen I | 1 (Hitmonlee) | 2 | -1 Gen II | 1 (Heracross) | 0 | +1 Gen III | 2 (Blaziken, Breloom) | 2 | 0 Gen IV | 3 (Infernape, Lucario, Gallade) | 2 | +1 Gen V | 3 (Mienshao, Scrafty, Mienfoo) | 4 | -1
Bottom 10 Breakdown Gen I | 1 (Machop) | 2 | -1 Gen II | 1 (Tyrogue) | 0 | +1 Gen III | 2 (Makuhita, Meditite) | 2 | 0 Gen IV | 1 (Toxicroak) | 2 | -1 Gen V | 5 (Throh, Conkeldurr, Pignite, Timburr, Gurdurr) | 4 | +1
Generation Breakdown
Gen I Top performer: Hitmonlee (9th – 80th percentile) Worst performer: Machop (36th – 13th percentile) Average placement: 18.63 (56th percentile)
Gen II Top performer: Heracross (4th – 93rd percentile) Worst performer: Tyrogue (37th – 10th percentile) Average placement: 21.67 (48th percentile)
Gen III Top performer: Blaziken (5th – 90th percentile) Worst performer: Meditite (40th – 3rd percentile) Average placement: 24.71 (41st percentile)
Gen IV Top performer: Infernape (1st – 100th percentile) Worst performer: Toxicroak (33rd – 20th percentile) Average placement: 16.29 (62nd percentile)
Gen V Top performer: Mienshao (2nd – 98th percentile) Worst performer: Gurdurr (41st – 0th percentile) Average placement: 22.5 (46th percentile)
Yes folks, you read that correctly! Gen I has been indisputably outdone, in a contest where the results weren’t driven by alt voting, by none other than Generation IV! And it wasn’t just a trick of the numbers, Gen IV took this contest in pretty much every aspect. Three in the top ten (tying Gen V for the most, but Gen IV had a higher average and that’s actually considered something of an underperformance for V), only one in the bottom ten, and a fairly good distribution of eliminations outside of those ranges. Gen I’s only saving grace was that it, once again, stayed clear of the bottom. Machop was there, but the next lowest was eleven spots higher (Mankey at 25th). Sure, it only had one in the top ten, but it also took 11th, 12th, and two other top twenty spots. In other words, Gen I’s lack of strong presence at the very top is what hurt it the most. Every other aspect of the contest was business as usual for it. Gen II’s numbers are all kinds of weird this contest because it only had three entrants, one at the top, one in the middle, one at the bottom. So not much to say there. Gen V was plagued with the same ailment as it was in the grass contest. It had a good amount of Pokemon in high placements, but its low tier was not only large, but had very poor performances. This hurt it severely, though Gen V wasn’t really in contention for the top spot like it was last time. Gen III had the worst performance again, though it wasn’t too far off of V. Two Pokemon placed high, but only one Pokemon finished in the middle. The other four were far down the ladder, taking two of the bottom ten spots, as well as the 11th to last and 12th to last. So that hurt it more than anything, but Gen III finally had strong performers to somewhat balance this out.
Fighting is probably the only type where Gen IV would outperform all other Gen's, and with good reason. Lucario, Infernape, and Gallade are all awesome.
I'm so happy Mienshao got proper respect there. Mienshao has a unique style among fighting types that's not just overpower opposition with superior attack stat like most others. Also its design is totally b****in if I don't say so myself...
And with the next set of stats, it appears we're heading back to the usual.
Flying
Winner: Charizard (Generation I)
Key: Genration | Number of Pokemon in top/bottom ten | Expected | Difference
Top 10 Breakdown Gen I | 6 (Charizard, Scyther, Pidgeot, Zapdos, Dragonite, Butterfree) | 2 | +4 Gen II | 1 (Crobat) | 2 | -1 Gen III | 1 (Altaria) | 2 | -1 Gen IV | 1 (Honchkrow) | 2 | -1 Gen V | 1 (Braviary) | 2 | -1
Bottom 10 Breakdown Gen I |2 (Doduo, Golbat) | 2 | 0 Gen II | 1 (Ledyba) | 2 | -1 Gen III | 1 (Masquerain) | 2 | -1 Gen IV | 1 (Fan Rotom) | 2 | -1 Gen V | 5 (Thundurus, Woobat, Tranquill, Landorus, Tornadus) | 2 | +3
Generation Breakdown
Gen I Top performer: Charizard (1st – 100th percentile) Worst performer: Golbat (84th – 0th percentile) Average placement: 32.37 (62nd percentile)
Gen II Top performer: Crobat (7th – 93rd percentile) Worst performer: Ledyba (76th – 10th percentile) Average placement: 35.79 (58th percentile)
Gen III Top performer: Altaria (4th – 96th percentile) Worst performer: Masquerain (5th percentile) Average placement: 43.75 (48th percentile)
Gen IV Top performer: Honchkrow (3rd – 98th percentile) Worst performer: Fan Rotom (77th – 8th percentile) Average placement: 49.5 (42nd percentile)
Gen V Top performer: Braviary (5th – 95th percentile) Worst performer: Tornadus (83rd – 1st percentile) Average placement: 53.22 (37th percentile)
I guess Gen I went into this contest looking to avenge itself… because it completely dominated. It claimed over half of the top ten, and exactly half of the top twenty. In fact, just over half of its participants made the top twenty (ten of nineteen). And since all of the gens had a fairly even participation level, that’s even more impressive. The only reason its average isn’t even more dominant is because it wasn’t able to do its typical thing where it almost completely avoids the bottom. It had two in the bottom ten, including the bottom spot, and had other fairly low performers. It also failed to evenly space its eliminations, with a twenty-spot gap between Farfetch’d (23rd) and Moltres (43rd). This is what prevented Gen I’s performance this contest from being a complete and utter domination. Gen II pulled the usual trick out of the bag, but with better results. It generally avoided the bottom, with only two in the bottom twenty. Apart from those two, its lowest finishers were simply in the lower portion of the middle. It also had five Pokemon in the top twenty, with its method of “you don’t need a ton at the top, you just need to prevent your worst from sucking too badly.” Gen III finished in the middle this time, with nothing really interesting to note. Eliminations were very evenly spaced out, so it finished with close to a 50th percentile average. Gen IV fell pretty hard from there, though. It had a few in the upper portion, but its middle tier performed below-average in comparison to the rest. However, nothing in this contest compares to the utter steamrolling of Gen V. The ONLY thing preventing it from being a catastrophe is Braviary finishing in 5th. It got nothing else into the top twenty. On top of making up half of the bottom ten, it also took three of the bottom four spots, with eight of the bottom twenty. If nearly half of your participants are in the bottom twenty, there’s a problem. I seem to remember Braviary nearly getting eliminated around 20th, so if that had happened, this wouldn’t just rival Gen III’s water performance as the worst so far, it would be the uncontested worst showing a Generation has had in the contest up to that point. So yeah, Gen I was the indisputable winner of this contest, and Gen V took one of the biggest hits we’ve seen.
Then again I can't think of a Gen 1 Flying type I utterly hate. Doduo fam is p boring and Farfetch'd is something I will never understand the love for, but I don't hate them. I can think of a Flyer I hate for almost every other Gen.
Yeah, I'm not terribly fond of Masquerain, but I think it should have been higher than that.
Also, I should clarify my comment about it being the worst performance so far. The fire contest had the worst performances seen so far with Gens IV and V, but I kinda discount that for two reasons. One, Gen I actually DID utterly dominate that one. It was impossible to get a high average, so low percentiles like that don't translate well in direct comparisons, so you kinda have to adjust a bit. Secondly (and this is less significant of a reason, but still kinda valid), that was the contest that we busted the alts. And that was done towards the end (from what I remember, it was an alt trying to eliminate Arcanine somewhere in the top ten that set it off). So those results are a tiny bit skewed (though not NEARLY as badly as Psychic's).
Then again I can't think of a Gen 1 Flying type I utterly hate. Doduo fam is p boring and Farfetch'd is something I will never understand the love for, but I don't hate them. I can think of a Flyer I hate for almost every other Gen.
The Gen I bias in the fire contest was even worse, although it's the same reasoning for that. Gen I's only fire type that I'd say is widely hated is Magmar. The rest are mostly pretty popular.
SuorGenoveffa posted... Starfox I noticed a mistake in your stats:
Gen I | 6 (Charizard, Scyther, Pidgeot, Zapdos, Dragonite, Butterfree) | 2 | +4
Braviary - Very, very awesome Mandibuzz - ...at least it's better than its preevo... but I still want to kill it with fire Ducklett - Meh Swanna - Really don't like this one either Unfezant - Hate the female form, male is a bit better but I still don't like it Sigilyph - Neat, interesting design. I like it.
Key: Generation | Number in top/bottom 10 | Number expected | Difference
Top 10 Breakdown Gen I | 0 | 0 | 0 Gen II | 3 (Houndoom, Umbreon, Tyranitar) | 1 | +2 Gen III | 3 (Sharpedo, Absol, Mightyena) | 3 | 0 Gen IV | 1 (Weavile) | 2 | -1 Gen V | 3 (Krookodile, Krokorok, Hydreigon) | 4 | -1
Bottom 10 Breakdown Gen I | 0 | 0 | 0 Gen II | 0 | 1 | -1 Gen III | 4 (Crawdaunt, Carvanha, Nuzleaf, Shiftry) | 3 | +1 Gen IV | 2 (Skuntank, Stunky) | 2 | +1 Gen V | 4 (Liepard, Pawniard, Deino, Vullaby) | 4 | 0
Generation Breakdown
Gen I had no Dark types, thus had no participants (duh)
Gen II Top performer: Houndoom (1st – 100th percentile) Worst performer: Murkrow (20th – 50th percentile) Average placement: 9.33 (78th percentile)
Gen III Top performer: Sharpedo (5th – 89th percentile) Worst performer: Shiftry (36th – 8th percentile) Average placement: 21.8 (45th percentile)
Gen IV Top performer: Weavile (6th – 88th percentile) Worst performer: Stunky (35th – 11th percentile) Average placement: 21.86 (45th percentile)
Gen V Top performer: Krookodile (4th – 92nd percentile) Worst performer: Vullaby (39th – 0th percentile) Average placement: 22.06 (45th percentile)
It looks like we don’t even need Gen I in the contest to have a complete thrashing. Gen II had a dominating performance that rivals Gen I’s Fire results. There are a few things worth noting that makes this performance look better than it actually is. First, the pool for this contest is pretty small, only 39 Pokemon. Secondly, Gen II only had six participants, three of which happened to be this contest’s top three. When half of your field is entirely at the top, that REALLY pulls up your average. Of course, the fact that its lowest finisher, Murkrow, placed 20th (right in the middle) still says something about how dominant Gen II is despite all of that. Those factors simply make me hesitant to declare this the most dominant performance so far. As for the other three generations, they all performed fairly evenly. III and IV had almost identical averages, while V was extremely close (only .2 off). So this is the first contest that had one generation dominate where all of the remaining generations took the hit evenly (in other contests, usually one generation took the majority of it). Of those three, I’d say Gen III probably had the best performance. It may have had four in the bottom 10, but they were fairly high on that list (and remember that the bottom ten in this contest isn’t quite as bad as in other contests due to the small field. About a quarter of Pokemon wound up in that range). It also had a decent amount towards the higher part of the middle and towards the top. Gen V comes in next. It had more prevalence at the top (3 of the top ten, 6 of the top twenty), but it also had a much stronger presence at the bottom. Namely, it took the bottom three spots. The remainder of its Pokemon finished around the middle, which puts it slightly lower than III. This leaves Gen IV again for the bottom. Only one top ten finisher, two a bit higher up, but the rest were in the lower middle or the bottom. But still, the three performed very evenly, I just had to pick one weakest performer among the three.
Dark contest marks the first time my favorite of any type has ever won one these blasted things. And even that was a hollow victory because I only started rooting for the Doom when my lesser appreciated Dark type favorites all went out. The Doom is a fantastic winner, don't get me wrong. It's just a little expected is all. Bah, even when I win, I lose. V_V
My favorites tend to do pretty well, actually... Latios did the worst in Psychic at 50th, but I think that's going to be redone. Other than that...
Fire: Typhlosion - 4th Water: Empoleon - 1st (though he didn't become my favorite until well after this contest... if you count my favorite during the contest, it'd be Blastoise at 9th) Grass: Grovyle - 3rd Fighting: Lucario - 3rd (I prefer Blaziken, but I think of him more as a fire type, so I wanted Lucario to win) Flying: Charizard - 1st Dark: Houndoom - 1st Poison: Nidoking - 1st (prefer Gengar to him, but thought he shouldn't win Poison) Ground: Excadrill - 13th (second favorite was Marowak, and it won. These two are my second and third favorite Pokemon overall) Ghost - Dusknoir - 12th
Yeah... :(. Then again, all I'm doing is showing a bunch of numbers then throwing a wall of text in your face. That in itself is a deterrent for most people XD.
Alright, so... question for the two or three of you who actually read these... as my writeups are continuing to get longer and longer (it wouldn't even fit in the message this time), I'd like your opinion on it. Do you actually read them? If so, do you like the detail, or should I scale back on that some? Comments/criticism would be nice if you have any. Now... on to Poison!
Poison
Winner: Nidoking (Generation I)
Key: Generation | Number in Top/Bottom 10 | Expected | Difference
Top 10 Breakdown Gen I | 7 (Nidoking, Gengar, Haunter, Beedrill, Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, Venusaur) | 6 | +1 Gen II | 1 (Crobat) | 1 | 0 Gen III | 1 (Seviper) | 1 | 0 Gen IV | 1 (Roserade) | 1 | 0 Gen V | 0 | 1 | -1
Bottom 10 Breakdown
Gen I | 4 (Tentacool, Weezing, Grimer, Weepinbell) | 6 | -2 Gen II | 0 | 1 | -1 Gen III | 3 (Dustox, Gulpin, Swalot) | 1 | +2 Gen IV | 2 (Budew, Stunky) | 1 | +1 Gen V | 1 (Amoonguss) | 1 | 0
Generation Breakdown
Gen I Top performer: Nidoking (1st – 100th percentile) Worst performer: Weepinbell (54th – 5th percentile) Average placement: 26.73 (54th percentile)
Gen II Top performer: Crobat (2nd – 98th percentile) Worst performer: Qwilfish (41st – 29th percentile) Average placement: 24.5 (58th percentile)
Gen III Top performer: Seviper (6th- 91st percentile) Worst performer: Swalot (56th – 2nd percentile) Average placement: 37.4 (35th percentile)
Gen IV Top performer: Roserade (4th – 95th percentile) Worst performer: Stunky (51st – 11th percentile) Average placement: 28.88 (50th percentile)
Gen V Top performer: Scolipede (14th – 77th percentile) Worst performer: Amoonguss (57th – 0th percentile) Average placement: 36.43 (37th percentile)
Holy crap, Poison has one of the strangest set of stats that I’ve ever seen. When I first started compiling the list, I thought for sure I was going to be doing a writeup on how Gen I completely dominated (I mean, just look at that top ten). I never thought I’d be writing on how there wasn’t a single standout performance from any of the gens. To start this weird stat distribution, note how many poison types Gen I has. 33. It has 33 out of the 57 poison types. The next highest is Gen IV at 8, while Gen II only had 4. Kinda sets the mood here.
Anyway, Gen II ended up with the highest average, but I’d hardly call that the best performance. It only had four participants, and it did its usual “just keep them all away from the bottom” routine. So, while it had Crobat at second, its other three places were 20, 35, and 41. Hardly inspiring. That brings us to Gen I, which at first glance would appear to have this in the bag. Then, when you look at it, its presence in the top ten (with seven spots) and top twenty (with thirteen spots) is a slight overperformance at best, as expected numbers were 6 and 12 respectively. Of course, this stems from Gen I having almost 60% of all of the participants in this contest. Throw in the fact that it had four of the bottom ten spots, five of the following eight spots, and those poor finishes completely offset the high performers, which leads to Gen I’s simply mediocre average. Gen IV followed that, with a similar philosophy to Gen II… only it didn’t work as well. It had one top ten finisher, and the second finisher was 19th… but then it started to get a bit more packed towards the bottom, which led to its average being slightly lower than Gen I’s (and also giving it an almost perfect 50th percentile average).
Gen V then got hit really hard, with virtually no presence at the top, getting pretty heavy towards the bottom, though most avoided the lowest of the low (except Amoonguss in last). Then… oh goodness, poor Gen III. Seviper prevented this catastrophe from becoming a TOTAL F***ING ANNIHILATION. Roselia was the next highest finisher, in 17th. After that, Gen III only had three other participants. All three finished in the bottom five. Now THAT is a horrible showing. Because the number of participants was so low, Seviper brings up the average placement a lot… but it still put Gen III’s poison performance right up there with the worst of the bunch, if not being the ABSOLUTE worst we’ve seen. So overall, I’d have to give the victory to Gen I, even though it’s just a mediocre performance. Gen III loses without question.
It's interesting that eve though Gen III's Poison types got higher placements in the top 10 and bottom 10, it still managed to perform worse than Gen V. These two Gen's really are the weakest when it comes to Poison types.
It's interesting that eve though Gen III's Poison types got higher placements in the top 10 and bottom 10, it still managed to perform worse than Gen V. These two Gen's really are the weakest when it comes to Poison types.
Well, the main reason it performed worse was due to the lack of inbetween. Gen V had Pokemon in the 20, 30s and 40s, while Gen III went straight from 17th to the bottom five. The middle Pokemon gave Gen V a bit more cushion. Hence Seviper being the only reason Gen III didn't bomb completely miserably.
Oh yeah I guess Nidoking is technically my favorite Poison type. I was still rooting for others like Seviper, Ivysaur, and Roserade over it because a Nidoking win would've been boring and predictable (and it was).