So, last week I made a topic about building a PC. It died. This week I'm a bit more open to AMD, and have been looking at the FX 8150. Would anyone be willing to perhaps link me to some builds that might meet a few specifications?
-AMD FX 8150/Intel Core i7 3770 (Either route, I'm open to either right now)
-16GB RAM
-GeForce GTX 580 GPU
-1TB HDD
Everything else is open, (case, power supply, etc.) Also, I'm not sure exactly how they include it, but I'd like for it to be able to pick up a wireless signal. Dunno if that's part of the motherboard, or if it's a separate entity. Sorry if I'm asking for much, but I'm still not 100% sure what's compatible with what yet.
the FX, while AMD's latest line, isn't their best unless you're doing servers. if you use windows 8 then it probably will be, but it's not the right one. not sure how the 8150 fairs exactly, but if it can beat the hexacores is another story.
the 3770 and Ivy Bridge in general isn't worth it if you overclock and have a dedicated vid card. if you don't use photoshop a lot then it's also not worth it. if you DO then okay go for an i7, and if you DON'T overclock then okay go for ivy bridge. but those with a K at the end are meant to be overclocked and a good case will allow you to do it well, in which case Sandy Bridge is the superior one.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
Wanglicious posted... the FX, while AMD's latest line, isn't their best unless you're doing servers. if you use windows 8 then it probably will be, but it's not the right one. not sure how the 8150 fairs exactly, but if it can beat the hexacores is another story.
the 3770 and Ivy Bridge in general isn't worth it if you overclock and have a dedicated vid card. if you don't use photoshop a lot then it's also not worth it. if you DO then okay go for an i7, and if you DON'T overclock then okay go for ivy bridge. but those with a K at the end are meant to be overclocked and a good case will allow you to do it well, in which case Sandy Bridge is the superior one.
I picked the 8150 because from what I've been reading it's their newest and more current CPU. Octocore sounds like it'll serve me well for what I need now, and still be a good thing a few years from now. Seriously, I'm just trying to play Guild Wars 2, but I very much want to have the power for the heaviest games right now and down the road a while on max settings. Overclocking sounds like something I might tinker with in the future, but I don't know if it'll be necessary right away with a strong rig.
Any particular reason you're going with a 580 instead of a 680? Price? Availability?
In the last topic, I think Vlado(?) posted a link to several GPUs charted by performance, and the 580 was second highest on the list. <.<
ah, 'k. checked on the 8150 and it was one of their initial FX, which is what i thought.
overclocking is a pretty safe thing now, all these CPUs are meant to be OC'd and a good case will allow you to do it quite easily. just remember that latest and greatest doesnt' mean best just quite yet. as for being future proof uhh.... all of these are.
Ivy Bridge models (the intel one you picked) aren't really any more or less future proof than sandy bridge ones is what we found out. basically means that anyone with an i5-2500K can be safe for another year or two while knowing it's the best intel has to offer if you're looking for price-performance and aren't doing heavily threaded (e.g., photoshop) work.
the FX line is priced down to compete somewhere between the i5s and i7s of sandy bridge. which is fair as if you do need something that needs THAT many cores then it's for a specific task, like servers or photoshop again (FX line is at least moderately competitive in this regard, but they win out on servers easy). worth looking around there are the hexacores AMD has. hell, you can go with the Phenom II X4 and still be fine - that chip line reigns supreme for them and the later ones, the X6, are still their best in a lot of functions while holding fantastic value. AMD's more interesting test will be their upcoming Trinity chips (due this week) to see how well you can tweak it.
but basically, the short version goes both new techs, while they have their specific markets, weren't really any better than the old ones. in Intel's case not at all for heavy use, in AMD's case in most aspects it was a wash.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
So the new trinity chips are coming out this week, like I can get them? Or as in we'll see what they offer but still cant get them for a while?
I feel like there's so much "This will be 'good enough' for X" going on, and I would really prefer a computer that's more than 'good enough'. I want to play demanding games on high settings for years to come. No lagging hangups, no having to turn things down to improve performance. I want a serious games machine. My manager at work tells me to go AMD, but it seems like the selection is smaller and soon to be outdated compared to Intel's fresh core i5/i7 sets. I would prefer not to wait too long to get it because I have to buy a car soon and want to do that after I get my computer. It seems like there's never really a definitive "Go with this, and this and this. You're set." Is this normal? Maybe I'm over-thinking it. o.o;;
we'll be able to get them. and yes, computers are often in the 'good enough for X' tier but that applies for all settings.
playing demanding games is mostly to the vid card, not the CPU. CPUs that are 8 year old can play modern games for example, and it has consistently just not mattered for a lot until you get major new tech. 1-2 year old tech right now ranks equally as high in terms of gaming ability despite new stuff, so yeah. you're overthinking it. everything is "good enough for X" because we don't know what the X is.
if you bought an AM2/AM3 motherboard, you could STILL be on it with modern equipment for example. that socket hasnt' changed for a good 8 or so years and was a miracle to last so long. what happens next? nobody really knows. sockets change, but they're lasting longer. my CPU is a year or two old now but it still performs damn high, well enough to be on benchmark charts and will continue to be there for another year.
i agree with your manager but that's because i vastly prefer to get something for 60% of the price and 90% of the performance, with the other 10% being stuff i don't use much. the processor isn't something you need to worry a lot on a 'serious machine,' i7 isn't needed. not in the sense of 'oh yeah it's not needed because i5 does everything,' but in the sense of 'it's not needed because the performance of an i7 is barely higher than an i5.'
same goes for FX and later Phenom IIs or Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge (this we needed to wait to see). there's nothing outdated about the AMD chips - FX is plenty new and matches up to the i5 damned nicely. Phenom II 1075T, 1090T, 1100T are ALSO all incredible CPUs. nothing outdated on any of that, just different technology with similar performances.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
Wang, you seem to be quite a well of knowledge on the subject. If I were to ask you to show me both an AMD and an Intel build that would top out games for years to come, would you be willing to do it and link it to me? I obviously am a n00b here, and if I can get away with spending $1000 instead of $1300, that would be cool. I just never trust my own judgement and cant shake the feeling that whatever I get won't be good after just a year or two.
oh, and yes. there is NEVER a definitive "go with this and this."
the only good rule to follow is that if you go with AMD for the processor, you should go with AMD for the vid card. as a result, Intel-NVIDIA became a norm. NVIDIA is the only one who can do PhysX, but AMD is working on their own similar technology and you'll see it in the upcoming gen anyway. your answer of "go with this and this" will come down to:
1) what you use it. 2) price.
1 sometimes will give a quick answer - "i need a new server' -> FX line. "i use photoshop professionally" -> i7. "i do gaming" -> Phenom X4, Phenom X6, FX, Llano, Trinity in a week - and yes you can buy the chips -, i5 and i7 (sandy bridge and ivy bridge alike).
2 will also give a quick answer. "I want a processor under $160" -> Phenom X4, Phenom X6, Llano, Trinity in a week, i5 and maybe i7 (Sandy Bridge only) if you have a Microcenter nearby.
AMD has a lot more diversity in this field than Intel, but that's because AMD has 3 different lines going right now. FX was meant to replace Phenom II but since it didn't do a good job it kept some staying power, similar things will happen with Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. Trinity is Llano's successor and seems to be more ambitious by quite a decent amount and it's too new to be abandoned, especially with the massive success the chipset has been (notably more so in laptops, but desktops have been a nice profit for them too). how well it will do on the CPU side remains to be seen, and a dedicated card can and will allow for some crazy stuff within it.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
1) how big a case are you after? the norm for gaming i find is a mid-tower PC which don't exactly come out small, but house most of the stuff you'd need and want. if space is an issue it's still entirely doable, you'll just have less options obviously.
2) though gaming is the primary focus, anything you're after secondary?
3) you got a microcenter nearby? this changes purchases by a decent amount lately. >_>;
and honestly, what you get now probably won't be as good in a year or two. it's unusual that both AMD and Intel didn't make great successors within FX and Ivy Bridge so we just got lucky. however, while it won't be as good, it will certainly still be fantastic. which is basically what you shoot for when you PC build.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
what parts do you have already? if you're typing on a desktop, we can just re-use your keyboard, mouse, and hard drive. depending on how modern it is, other parts too. it saves quite a bit, especially the hard drive as it already has an operating system on it. >_>; now mind you, a lot of people don't include windows in prices because it's... obtainable. but if you want that part to be legal and don't have a hard drive that's usable with it already, then that'd also be added into your costs.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
Wanglicious posted... sure. but to that end gotta ask:
1) how big a case are you after? the norm for gaming i find is a mid-tower PC which don't exactly come out small, but house most of the stuff you'd need and want. if space is an issue it's still entirely doable, you'll just have less options obviously.
2) though gaming is the primary focus, anything you're after secondary?
3) you got a microcenter nearby? this changes purchases by a decent amount lately. >_>;
and honestly, what you get now probably won't be as good in a year or two. it's unusual that both AMD and Intel didn't make great successors within FX and Ivy Bridge so we just got lucky. however, while it won't be as good, it will certainly still be fantastic. which is basically what you shoot for when you PC build.
...oh, and i forgot the obvious.
what parts do you have already? if you're typing on a desktop, we can just re-use your keyboard, mouse, and hard drive. depending on how modern it is, other parts too. it saves quite a bit, especially the hard drive as it already has an operating system on it. >_>; now mind you, a lot of people don't include windows in prices because it's... obtainable. but if you want that part to be legal and don't have a hard drive that's usable with it already, then that'd also be added into your costs.
1. Space is no issue. I'd like the case to look pretty neat, something with a blue light would be gnarly. After that, whatever works. I'm really not picky. I understand ventilation is necessary, and windows on the side to look into are neat I guess, but I have no real quarrel with anything. Honestly, I'll probably scope over the build(s) and maybe swap out one piece for another if I don't like anything for a justifiable reason before putting it back on here to make sure it'd work.
2. Gaming is very much the top priority, but I plan on putting together some videos too. My friends and I make movies every now and again, and i'd like to be able to put that together on my computer, but it really isn't the top focus.
3. I work right by a microcenter, actually. <_<
Right now I think I have an old Dell keyboard and mouse, and those things are kind of back-listed right now. They're kinda old and bulky, but they're not a fortune to replace. I can worry about those things later. My 19" tv will also be my monitor for a while before I buy one from where I work (a distribution center) for fairly cheap wholesale cost.
'k, sorry for the wait here. had to figure things out with microcenter involved now as it changes a LOT of recommendations. fact is microcenter makes an i5-2500K a very, very sexy idea in cost too. so both the CPU and Motherboard should be gotten there, and this goes for AMD too. actually i'll just lead with this because all this REALLY determines is the size of the computer (in that it leaves you to mid tower+, which is fine). those can be decided afterwards, these are the two initial steps that you can work everything else from.
their ad, ends tomorrow, has two nice things on its side (i think you can online for in-store later):
the i5s are what you're looking at. 2500K is the standard now of intel's gaming best (like 95% the same performance, 2/3 the cost), but the 3570 is solid too, and at $20 more, not that big a deal. it beats out its predecessor in most things, but when overclocking comes to down it just gets too hot, so the latter ends up being better at middle to high levels. as a result, i'd go with a 2500K for now because they will fix that in later i5s.
PCI 3.0 is the most important of the new pieces that this thing has. the rest - USB 3.0, SATA III - is fairly standard in any modern build. PCI 3.0 is the new kid, and this board has it.
170 + 170. future proof on the motherboard, and that's really 80% of what matters for future proofing your system. the remaining 20% is the case.
short version goes that for threaded work, 6 cores > 4 cores. however for gaming, 3.4GHz > 3GHz. and as it's a black edition the multiplier's unlocked, so it can and WILL overclock to 4GHz with a good setup. and you can use the same link to compare the 965BE to the 2500K and see it's not really a contest in benchmarks. for real-world performance the benchmarks don't show the most honest picture in the world as it's much closer than it looks, but it's still a fact that the i5 is a better processor.
it's also a fact that it's 1/3 more expensive (100 to 150) and the performance most certainly is FAR closer than that. and then the motherboard deals hit and the price gap becomes HUGE - you've that price you see IS the bundle price. the ASUS at 145, the 160 and 195 Gigabyte ALL allow the FX chips to be used just fine. and while this gen (Bulldozer) didn't come out well, Piledriver (the next) should be amazing. just the way AMD works oftentime. but... you're literally looking at the price that the Intel CPU by itself cost against the price of a lesser, but at least moderately comparable, CPU with a motherboard as well. if your budget counts? AMD wins this one easy.
i'm not sure WHICH of those boards is the best yet. but the price gap is ridiculous between them, and if you think you're okay with the slightly weaker performance, then i can see which is better overall (i mean i'm assuming it's the $200 one yeah, but the others under it are more interesting and hell i'll check the $100 because wow).
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
and no lie - sales like that with AMD stuff is exactly why i say you can build a gaming rig that maxes everything out for 300-500 bucks.
because if you have a hard drive, then frankly just get a new case for 50-70, buy 8GB RAM for $30-40, and get a solid power supply for another 70-100 and... you're done.
<__<;
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
There are a variety of options. Depending on your motherboard, you can choose different kinds of connections. You can also have an externally mounted USB device, which would allow you to easily move to another computer.
My experience with the USB cards is that they are unreliable, and unsuitable for gaming. I have an internally mounted PCI card and have had no problems.
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"What if you just eat vegetarians?"-neonreaper "^ You are what you eat. ^_~"-Koiji
I just bought a computer and I am loving my performance so far.
For cost effectiveness the 570 is actually pretty awesome still. The thing about GPUs is that honestly they are ahead of the gaming market right now for all but the most try hard settings. Things optimize super well.
Just my take. I love my machine so far, although I opted for another processor than that one that's comparable.
Oh, and I don't trust AMD right now at all, and while the processor I gave you is pretty expensive in comparison it is going to rock the floor with a lot of stuff. For gaming right now a lot of them can be very CPU intensive, don't be a hero and go cheap on your CPU imo.
Also: Wang is giving pretty solid advice depending on your budget and how long you want this build to last you. I spent about 1950 on brand new everything and I am very, very confident it will literally max everything for five years. I really don't like AMD though from everything I've researched in processors. Intel in similar price ranges seems to tear them apart.
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http://firsthour.net/screenshots/suikoden-2/suikoden-2-luca-blight.JPG The Cult of Personality.
definitely not, no. in certain fields Intel does kill AMD - pretty much the high end desktop market. nothing touches 2600K and very little touches the 2500K. likewise however, AMD's generally better for heavy duty servers (which nobody here uses anyway so it's a moot point) and kills Intel at the low end as well as dominating the middle. another field is laptops - AMD is king thanks to their APUs. they're just ridiculously better for price-performance to the point where it ain't even funny. AMD is 2 gens behind Intel on the high end desktops, Intel's 2 gens behind on laptop gaming with their month old tech. the solution of "well get a good dedicated card!" is one that applies in both areas... and a field where AMD goes "good idea, let me crossfire that to a high level desktop performance."
i mean the i5-2500K isn't really a mid-range processor, it's ridiculously good and almost as good as an i7 for 90% of things, making it a fantastic price-performance player that, if you're with a nearby Microcenter, becomes a very, very real player, if it's still at that price (haven't seen the new ad). if you aren't however, or if it's back to its usual $200-230~ level? then... AMD only really has the high end FX line up there, and it doesn't fare too badly against the i5 and beats it in some tests (mainly encryption and conversions where it beasts everyone). still, FX line just ain't worth it, and the Phenom IIs are just pound for pound the best guys at their price range - they're really just competing with i3s. and while i3s aren't bad, they don't match up. the Phenom II X4s are just dirt cheap - when you can get the chip AND the motherboard for a good 70-80% of the performance of what you'd get in the 2500K, you've got easily the best deal. and of course the vid card's gonna be the main player here, but Intel has nothing to SLI there so it doesn't work out as well.
for a $1000 budget, sure an i5 is the one to IMMEDIATELY look at, especially if it's $170 and can get a very future proof motherboard at a solid discount. however if you're okay with cutting your budget by half for 70% of the same performance, then you're still not gonna have a problem. and if you don't want to cut THAT much there are other options too - trim down $1000 to $700 and lose some 15%. that's mostly the field AMD exists for, and it's hardly being cheap at it because the CPU can be upgraded without too much hassle. what's important is having a motherboard that allows a lot of future usage, a power supply that's reliable and will last, and a case that lets you play. the rest, CPU included, are all tweakable parts and losing a bit of performance at a lot of saving is perfectly reasonable.
and being confident in maxing everything for 5 years is a terrible idea. optimization will continue to improve and it'll look good, sure, but max in 5 years can (and frankly, likely will easily exceed this) literally be a machine 4x stronger than whatever's out there today. we're right on the corner of major breakthroughs again and there's gonna be plenty of R&D going into PCs.
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The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.
Seriously just get the 2500K... the ivy bridge CPUs are just sandy bridge with a new coat of paint, nothing special has been upgraded.
Also I would highly recommend a Lian Li case. I got this one: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112154 And it's so nice. Extremely solid design, but still light. Has a removable motherboard plate, and some wire management inside, and feels like it has way more space than a mid tower should have. The built-in fans run so quietly and effectively, too. I like the simple black one, but I think they have some transparent and glowy ones.
personally i'm a bigger fan of NZXT cases, but... if you're gonna go with a Lian then you're probably better off with one of the ones on a very nice sale.