I get what you all are saying, because again, as I've said plenty in this topic, there's something to be said for gaining confidence in yourself because ultimate, more confident people are more attractive. But this is being linked with a "men are the strong, earner, and women are the caretaker", which is something that in general society is getting away from, which you have noted, but the thing is, the general unhappiness of the population of this country and the world is not related to that.
The reason divorce is becoming more popular isn't because of feminism, it's because it's becoming more socially acceptable, mostly because people aren't as bound to the religion that frowned upon it. People aren't making less money because women are starting to work jobs that only men worked before, people are making less money because there is a growing gap between the higher and lower class people, and because more emphasis is being put upon finance and the stock market than actual, tangible careers.
And while it's true that generally, in divorce, the man gets the short end of the stick, it's a complete 180 from the way it was 70 years ago, where if a divorce happened, it was immediately assumed to be the woman's fault, and a divorce completely destroyed a woman's stock in life, and she ended up having to raise however many children she had with essentially no support, unless her parents took her side. It's over-corrected too far, but it hasn't always been this way. Sure, people may have been generally happier 60 years ago, but "the feminization of men" is not the cause for the unhappiness. People are getting smarter, technology is getting better at a much quicker rate, and again, the gap between rich and poor grows leaps and bounds every year.
Ultimately, what this is is finding a too-simple (and ultimately misguided) solution for something that is far, far too complicated to only have one answer. I'd argue that the happiness of the nation would be even worse if we hadn't brought women onto an equal ground, but that's not something I could ever prove.
From: TheConductorSix | #163 To be honest I'd be VERY interested in your guys situations.
How many of you have divorced parents? If so which one did you spend your time with?
How many of you have parents are still together? How much do you think it helped you to have both of them in your life?
And lastly, how many of you had stay at home moms? I have both of my parents, theyve been together for like 30 years. To be honest almost never at the same time actually. Its funny to me now knowing exactly why they were so frustrated the months they worked opposite shifts. Thanks to my dads sense of humor i now know its because neither was getting laid.
They both worked the same job as paramedics, and while my dad made marginally more, we're talking like 50 cents more an hour or something. I think I have a somewhat unique raised by a village kind of feel though because for most of my childhood I was hanging out with paramedics while my parents switched shifts, which if you know anything about the field doesn't have really neat 8 hour shifts,( if you get a call in the last few minutes of your shift you may be working an extra hour or two). SO like from really early I was instilled with a sort of working to help people is a great thing kind of mentality and of course seeing that many men and women in their 20s and 30s who were single i got a pretty quick lesson on what adults are actually like.
When my dads back gave out and he started doing office work, its funny he was suddenly making much more money but was miserable. It wasnt until he got laid off and got some crappy hospital tech position that pays WAY less than my mom that he finally became happy again. So Ive always taken from it that its a mans duty to be who he wants to be, because its probably worth making less money to be happy.
I do find it interesting that most of the most alpha/beta obsessed people are natural betas. That makes so much sense to me. Because like I ve never had problems in my social life or with women, so i find it bizarre the way people present the idea of "acting alpha", like they reverse engineered how social situations work from the perspective of someone who doesnt understand them.
But i guess, if it doesnt come naturally, thats how youd have to do it?
For what its worth I dont think my mother staying at home wouldve made me happier or anything. Neither were really around a ton once i got old enough to take care of myself and I feel like it allowed me to start being my own person rather early in life.
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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion
And as for my family situation, I had two parents, both of whom worked essentially the same job, though my dad worked nights so he was able to be at home during the day when me and my sister were around. I honestly don't know who made more money, though I feel like I had a goddamn fantastic childhood. That said, I know plenty of people who grew up with single parents who had great childhoods as well. There is a natural advantage growing up in a two parent household, because you will most likely have two money-earners, and thus, more money, but that's never a certainty. Also, my parents have had a pretty happy marriage, as far as I can tell. Never worried about divorce or any major arguments between them.
Also, I would be incredibly interested to hear how the social acceptance of homosexuality fits into this whole "destroys the nuclear family" thing. Because you'd then have families with two father figures, or two mother figures. How does that change happiness?
The reason divorce is becoming more popular isn't because of feminism, it's because it's becoming more socially acceptable, mostly because people aren't as bound to the religion that frowned upon it. People aren't making less money because women are starting to work jobs that only men worked before, people are making less money because there is a growing gap between the higher and lower class people, and because more emphasis is being put upon finance and the stock market than actual, tangible careers.
marriage was more tied to business than religion. the reason marriage isn't as necessary as it used to be is because women are allowed to partake in monetary freedom and no longer are forced to marry to move up in society.
and yes, men ARE getting paid less to work jobs they used to BECAUSE women are working jobs. It's simple economics: more people working a job the less it pays. the reason NBA players make 10 million is because no one else can do what they do. there's a reason the gap started to widen right around the time women started becoming an economical force. the reason tangible careers went down the tube is because they stopped paying good money. who wants to work a job that doesn't pay enough to feed your family without your wife having to work.
Yoshi, to be honest, you seem like a good guy but one who has been led to misinformation by all the pro-feminist teachings and idealisms that have perverted every inch of our culture.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
My mom does not fit that stereotype of a lawyer chick because I think she anticipated becoming burnt out and unhappy. She moved to Chicago and became a law professor - she has a very humble and caring nature and that job while still demanding is less competitive and more suited to her tastes.
She definitely wears the pants in her relationship with my stepdad, no question about that. He runs his own business as an electrician and didn't finish undergrad. My dad is not the type of person to concede anything in a relationship, and that's part of why their marriage didn't work. For what it's worth, she took my stepdad's last name but not my dad's.
If you feel comfortable answering, whatever happened with your dad to make him stay at home?
marriage was more tied to business than religion. the reason marriage isn't as necessary as it used to be is because women are allowed to partake in monetary freedom and no longer are forced to marry to move up in society.
I don't see what's wrong with this, though. If women weren't allowed this, we'd literally be admitting that they are less than men. Not necessarily in a "they are less strong" manner, but a "they are less people, they need us men to tell them how to live their lives".
and yes, men ARE getting paid less to work jobs they used to BECAUSE women are working jobs. It's simple economics: more people working a job the less it pays. the reason NBA players make 10 million is because no one else can do what they do. there's a reason the gap started to widen right around the time women started becoming an economical force. the reason tangible careers went down the tube is because they stopped paying good money. who wants to work a job that doesn't pay enough to feed your family without your wife having to work.
This honestly feels like the same logic racists use, though. Strong, white men aren't getting paid as much as they used to because those dirty blacks/hispanics/asians/insert race here are getting our jobs. And the gap started to widen because Ronald Reagan is a terrible president. Causation does not equal correlation.
Your parents should be high fived for sticking together through a rough patch without creating a bad environment for you.
As for your theory about the people who read blogs such as this, you are 100% correct. 100%. Some men are born naturally Alpha. They had strong dads who set a good example and bestowed upon them great genes. Talking to women is easy and natural because they just copy the way their father treats their mother. It works and they keep doing it and it becomes a natural thing.
For men who aren't blessed with these situations, they have to learn somehow. Remember: You are who you pretend to be. So if you pretend to be Alpha long enough, eventually, it's going to become apart of you.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
For men who aren't blessed with these situations, they have to learn somehow. Remember: You are who you pretend to be. So if you pretend to be Alpha long enough, eventually, it's going to become apart of you.
Hear that gay people? Pretend long enough, and you too can become straight! You weren't born a woman in a man's body, you just aren't pretending hard enough!
Your parents should be high fived for sticking together through a rough patch without creating a bad environment for you.
As for your theory about the people who read blogs such as this, you are 100% correct. 100%. Some men are born naturally Alpha. They had strong dads who set a good example and bestowed upon them great genes. Talking to women is easy and natural because they just copy the way their father treats their mother. It works and they keep doing it and it becomes a natural thing.
For men who aren't blessed with these situations, they have to learn somehow. Remember: You are who you pretend to be. So if you pretend to be Alpha long enough, eventually, it's going to become apart of you. Yeah its kind of funny looking back on things. When they were together briefly during those months you could just feel the frustration rolling off of them, but they never took it out on us. Almost the opposite really, its like "if weve both gotta work jobs to raise a family wed better make sure they turn out right" kind of mentality.
And yeah that makes total sense "fake it til you make it" it is a real thing. I almost wonder how many ever stop faking. My theory about the high number of rocky divorces and breakups has to do with how readily people put on airs during courtship and then once they finally feel safe, just dropping the facade, giving the other partner buyer's remorse in the worst way. Nothing worse. I have the crazy exgirlfriends to prove it.
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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion
Charisma is for people who need other people to like them. I don't say the things I do to gain approval, I do it so that guys in my former situation know that life isn't always like this. That things can be significantly better.
It's not just about getting laid. I mean it can be if that's what you want, but for most of us it's more than that. It's about removing that constant worry and anxiety of the attracting the opposite sex from our list of things to worry and be anxious about.
It's God damn amazing what you can accomplish and get done when you're not worried about how you look, or if that girl in the desk next to you will find you attractive, or if you'll ever get married, or all that other BS men worry about. The best part: The less you care, the more nonchalant you are, the more women will be drawn to you. It's the world's greatest self fulfilling prophecy.
Doesn't Game encourage a fixation on your attractiveness to women with its emphasis on evolutionary psychology and beta males? In The Mystery Method, Mystery warns readers of having "their genes weeded mercilessly by nature" in a clear attempt at scare tactics. Neil Strauss, for whatever his memoir is worth, admitted in The Game that PUAs become obsessed with their attractiveness.
Game seems like it thrives on exploiting insecurities in men, making them feel worried about being beta males/AFCs who are unattractive to women. This insecurity is strengthened by accusations that only betas worry about this, creating a positive-feedback loop that keeps men stuck in the seduction community.
These complaints might be more applicable to commercial game (Mystery/Strauss/DeAngelo) rather than the seduction community blogosphere, though.
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Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest.
Guys like Mystery preach Machiavellian Tactics that I and the blogs I link to see as outdated. I'm not here to sell books or get you to pay for classes. I don't need to scare you into stepping your Game up.
As for the inherent self-absorption, yes, it happens to alot of men when they realize the power the wield over women. They've spent so long assuming they had no power and that if a woman was so kind as to gift their attentions with sexual gratitfication that they should be appreciative and shower her with praises and diamonds and the like.
Then they learn some game and realize: Wait a minute, she should be showering ME with praise and gifts for being so kind as to sleep with her when I have so many other options. It gets to many a man's heads.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
Like I said, his Machiavellian Tendencies tend to go to far on occasion, but I'm smart enough not to miss the trees. Are women whose husbands/boyfriends beat them the most dedicated, obedient women on the planet? You God Damn Right. Is it worth it? No. Abuse to women is my #1 crime. I'd never advise it. But have I grabbed a girl by her shoulders and shook the crap out of her...you damn right.
I have a little game I like to have every guy new to these ideas pull off. I posted it earlier. Whenever a woman gets out of line, look her dead in the eyes and say "**** YOU", then walk away. Woman respond to chauvinistic dominance better than anything else in the arsenal.
Now, too much of this behavior leads to misogyny, bruised skin and even more bruised egos, and deflated and inflated senses of self worth and importance. If you dominate too much you gain too much power and its no longer a relationship as much as it is subservience. But too little leads to the exact same thing, only you're her servant.
A little over-dominance every now and then keeps her a little scared and a lot turned on. Several studies show that the same men women find attractive are the same men they're afraid of.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
Like I said, his Machiavellian Tendencies tend to go to far on occasion, but I'm smart enough not to miss the trees. Are women whose husbands/boyfriends beat them the most dedicated, obedient women on the planet? You God Damn Right. Is it worth it? No. Abuse to women is my #1 crime. I'd never advise it. But have I grabbed a girl by her shoulders and shook the crap out of her...you damn right.
I have a little game I like to have every guy new to these ideas pull off. I posted it earlier. Whenever a woman gets out of line, look her dead in the eyes and say "**** YOU", then walk away. Woman respond to chauvinistic dominance better than anything else in the arsenal.
Now, too much of this behavior leads to misogyny, bruised skin and even more bruised egos, and deflated and inflated senses of self worth and importance. If you dominate too much you gain too much power and its no longer a relationship as much as it is subservience. But too little leads to the exact same thing, only you're her servant.
A little over-dominance every now and then keeps her a little scared and a lot turned on. Several studies show that the same men women find attractive are the same men they're afraid of.
You should watch Fate/Zero; you'd love Gilgamesh.
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Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest.
It's funny. Everytime I think about the fine line between sex/violence, I see just how obvious and thin that line is.
You will never and I repeat NEVER find a hotter selection of women then at UFC fights. Then I think of personal experiences and how women love having their hair pulled, asses spanked, necks choked, vaginas pounded, etc.
It can be quite confusing to men as to where the line is.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
Hear that gay people? Pretend long enough, and you too can become straight! You weren't born a woman in a man's body, you just aren't pretending hard enough!
Do you really think a gay person is "a woman born in a man's body"?
wat the balls
-- _foolmo_ 'Oh please, if foolmo made that analogy you'd think it was picture perfect' - Biolizard28
From: TheConductorSix | #217 It's funny. Everytime I think about the fine line between sex/violence, I see just how obvious and thin that line is.
You will never and I repeat NEVER find a hotter selection of women then at UFC fights. Then I think of personal experiences and how women love having their hair pulled, asses spanked, necks choked, vaginas pounded, etc.
It can be quite confusing to men as to where the line is. Id agree....if physical spousal abuse had a sexual component AT ALL>
Generally it doesnt and thats where this falls apart.
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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion
This is such a good topic. Very interesting. And realo you'll be able to read about all my stories one day in a memoir. I don't share that stuff with board 8 anymore.
-- We can't stop here. This is bat country. Brace for the G's, and fast heel-toe work.
Hear that gay people? Pretend long enough, and you too can become straight! You weren't born a woman in a man's body, you just aren't pretending hard enough!
Do you really think a gay person is "a woman born in a man's body"?
wat the balls
No, those are two separate instances. I just worded it very poorly. Gay people are most certainly not women born in men's bodies.
Though I am very curious, where do gay people fit in with this whole thing? I can't possibly imagine an answer that isn't offensive.
Being gay at birth is not a personality trait one can just change, whereas being a beta male is a fixable learned behavior. Even asking that question at all means you need to go back to the shallow end with the rest of the children.
Haha, not even remotely what I mean. What has been built up in this topic is a world where families are a big strong dad and a mom who stays home and raises the kids, and that's the best way, because that's the way people are happiest and most natural. So, what happens when two guys or two girls want to have a kid? Do they pick and choose who is the mom and who is the dad?
Again, no problems with the confidence boosting, problem with the stale gender roles and thinly veiled misogyny.
Though that does raise yet another interesting question. If you're a guy, how do you change your strategies when going after other guys? Or girls going after girls?
Though that does raise yet another interesting question. If you're a guy, how do you change your strategies when going after other guys? Or girls going after girls?
According to Ogi Ogas' book A Billion Wicked Thoughts homosexual male sexuality is very similar to heterosexual male sexuality; it's very looks oriented with an emphasis on youth. He also argues that tops are in high demand in the predominantly submissive-oriented homosexual male community.
Judging by his research, you probably need to work out and be more assertive to do well there.
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Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest.
And here's the kicker: These are just the problems us as men are having. Imagine what this crap does to the women our age.
I actually know a girl who grew up in a parallel situation - I've seen how she acts around random guys in clubs and bars and yes, her trust issues are like ten times worse than mine.
You're definitely right about the plight of the defeated obsoleted dad figure. Nothing seems to suit a family more than a responsible, proud man of the house, but I don't know that this 'feminization of men' corresponds entirely to a gendered agenda. We've just neutered natural selection, that's all. Men have been feminized for centuries, trek through 15th-18th century men's fashion for instance. Eventually they're wearin wigs and makeup, blouses, and stockings - when it came to a head they actually tried to outdo women on the hourglass waist look, and this is definitely when women had to marry for any power or money.
Upon reflection sharing the fact that I was living with my ex-girlfriend for months and months with my online community wasn't the best decision. Especially when said online community makes up what floor of the house you were living on!
-- We can't stop here. This is bat country. Brace for the G's, and fast heel-toe work.
Well Yoshi, you've reached the point this subject always leads to.
I have NO problem with Gay Marriage. At all. But I am weary with gay people having kids simply because I believe children need a mix of masculinity and femininity. Even though we joke about gay guys being feminine, they're not women. They can't nurture and care and love like women do. Same goes for two gay girls.
Also, as to your other post about "gay people faking it til they make it", there is a HUGE difference between being born a certain way and being raised a certain way. No one is born a Beta.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
every great stationary civilization has a history of men getting more feminine and women getting more masculine. these civilizations are populated with strong men who work hard and make their riches, then have kids who live the easy life.
wanna know a society with very few feminine men: African Tribes. No time to get girly when you're killing things for food. women have no time to get masculine because they're not the ones hunting. why aren't they hunting? because men are physically more powerful and it wouldn't make sense. it's slightly ironic that 3rd world country women are more ok with this truth. not just ok with it but accepting of it.
but this society we currently live in has butchered the strong male through a PC culture that smacks down truth and perpetuates lies for its personal gain. strong father figures are a dying breed which means strong sons are a dying breed. it's a nasty cycle.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
For those unaware, Title IX is the document that says if there is a sport at your school you have to have one for women if there are enough of them who want to participate.
Little known fact: 99% of women's sports LOSE money for their schools. That's right, they lose money but schools have to keep them for equality reasons. You would think that since women demanded this rule they would show up to the event, right? Wrong. Women are only 19% of the audience at WNBA games.
See that's the big problem: Women don't want to be equal to men, they want to cherry pick the best parts. They want equal pay and equal privilege but if the Titanic's sinking they want to be the first ones off the boat.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
Well Yoshi, you've reached the point this subject always leads to.
I have NO problem with Gay Marriage. At all. But I am weary with gay people having kids simply because I believe children need a mix of masculinity and femininity. Even though we joke about gay guys being feminine, they're not women. They can't nurture and care and love like women do. Same goes for two gay girls.
Also, as to your other post about "gay people faking it til they make it", there is a HUGE difference between being born a certain way and being raised a certain way. No one is born a Beta.
I know that, I just pointed that out because you worded it very poorly. You're right, being gay is very different from being charismatic and confident.
That said, I think you're way off-base with gay parents, though people on both sides certainly have evidence to support their theories.
TheConductorSix posted...
@seginus
every great stationary civilization has a history of men getting more feminine and women getting more masculine. these civilizations are populated with strong men who work hard and make their riches, then have kids who live the easy life.
wanna know a society with very few feminine men: African Tribes. No time to get girly when you're killing things for food. women have no time to get masculine because they're not the ones hunting. why aren't they hunting? because men are physically more powerful and it wouldn't make sense. it's slightly ironic that 3rd world country women are more ok with this truth. not just ok with it but accepting of it.
but this society we currently live in has butchered the strong male through a PC culture that smacks down truth and perpetuates lies for its personal gain. strong father figures are a dying breed which means strong sons are a dying breed. it's a nasty cycle.
It's fascinating that you point this out, because you've chosen a culture that is not nearly as far along, much less safe in terms of violence, sexual abuse, rape, and general wellbeing, and pretty wartorn. Africa as a whole is fairly unstable, so pointing it out as something we should strive toward feels very much like you're grasping at straws. I'd rather live in our culture than in Uganda, or Ethiopia, or pretty much any country in Africa, and I can't believe that you think making us more like them would be better.\
TheConductorSix posted...
And what better proof than today: TItle IX Day.
For those unaware, Title IX is the document that says if there is a sport at your school you have to have one for women if there are enough of them who want to participate.
Little known fact: 99% of women's sports LOSE money for their schools. That's right, they lose money but schools have to keep them for equality reasons. You would think that since women demanded this rule they would show up to the event, right? Wrong. Women are only 19% of the audience at WNBA games.
See that's the big problem: Women don't want to be equal to men, they want to cherry pick the best parts. They want equal pay and equal privilege but if the Titanic's sinking they want to be the first ones off the boat.
What you're leaving out is the fact that most college sports period, regardless of gender, lose money. Other than (for the biggest schools) football and occasionally basketball for a few select schools, college sports as a whole are a money loss venture. Hell, 22 schools' football programs made profit, out of over 120. Title IX might be a little overzealous, but it's heart is in the right place.
1. I'm not saying we should strive to be like Africa and nothing in that paragraph should have led you to believe that. I was simply sharing with Seg a few thoughts on how civilizations devolve. Unsurprisingly, it usually starts with men getting weaker. America in the 1900s was a tough, industrial civilization. We MADE things. We won wars with toughness, intelligence, and the luck that comes from such things. Men today are soft chumps.
2. I want gay marriage to be legalized to see if their divorce rates are like ours. That would be fascinating because I think a kid is better off with 2 gay parents than a single mom any day.
3. Do you know WHY people keep college football and basketball around? It brings people TO the university. They get on television, they get to advertise their school, so whatever they lose in up front fees, they make up in free advertising.
The University of Miami numbers before the mid 1980s and its numbers after are proof of that. Connecticut women's basketball isn't bringing people in even when they win 100 games in a row, but their men's basketball team wins one title and attendance goes up.
Title IX was an egregiously mishandled over-reaction to the Post-Civil Rights action. Feminists somehow snuck in this monstrosity that is costing schools tons of money and now they have the nerve to question why education costs are high.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch
"Only when women wield power in sufficient numbers will we create a society that genuinely works for all women. That will be a society that works for everyone. "
Dear everyone,
Feminists are crazy. This statement makes me laugh the same way it makes me laugh when black people complain about the amount of black people on television and I have to explain what "majority viewership" means.
That disposition makes me laugh because I know whenever I read a feminist article they'll always skip around the truth and just admit gender roles have been around for so long because THEY WORK based on our biological setups. They also have super beta husbands who "take on the Lion's Share". Her kids will never love her like they love their dad. It's impossible. She misses too many moments, big and small.
Kids whose mothers aren't around are even worse off than kids whose fathers aren't around. Being a mother is the greatest, toughest, most respectable job on this planet and feminists step all over it.
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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch