Board 8 > I really wish the poker scenes in casino royale were written better

(+) Yeah! (+)

The direction is good, the scenes are shot well, there's a lot of tension...but the way in which the actual cards play out is so stale and unbelievable it's hard for me to really appreciate.

Like, Rounders was way better.

Really good movie still but...meh.

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Mitt Romney 2012

I really wish just once someone won with a pair of sixes.

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Not so Gr8 anymore.

Have you ever seen the WSOP?! It always ends with a Straight Flush over a 4-of-a-kind over a Full House. That's how Johnny Chan won like 7 of his bracelets.

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Viviff on the go! (or from the toilet)
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Climatic Hand:


Dude #1 has AKQ flush
Dude #2 has eights full of aces
Le Chiffre has aces full of sixes
Bond has 4-to-8 straight flush


What are the odds of all that happening in a single hand? A billion to one?

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Mitt Romney 2012

Wait, were there really six Aces in that hand?

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"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...let's go exploring!" - Calvin
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One of my friends, a big Bond fan, has explained to me that the reason he loves Bond and I dislike it is that it is a franchise of absolute impracticality and "letting yourself just accept it, because it's Bond, and Bond is a badass like that." So, under normal circumstances I'd file this under his explanation to me and move on.

However, if there was someone not named Bond with a hand of six Aces, I draw the line.

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There weren't 6 aces.

2 aces were on the board, one guy had KQ of spades, another guy had A6, another guy had pocket 8s and Bond had 75 of spades.

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Procrastinater - So Good
~*Board 8 Late Night Crew*~

What was the pre-flop betting like, and what was the flop?

I have to know how insane Bond was for still being in this hand. <_<

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Oh, duh. Texas Hold'em.

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"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...let's go exploring!" - Calvin
http://img.imgcake.com/calvinfinalpngpy.png

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Procrastinater - So Good
~*Board 8 Late Night Crew*~

I'm just assuming Bond was the BB because limping with 5 7 suited is improbable.

Now after the flop he gets to see his straight flush draw so if he bet after that it's acceptable, although based on the table I'm guessing everyone checked around.

Now, why Bond takes so long to go all-in after Chiffre raises to 12 million, I don't know, it's not like Chiffre is going to lay down after already raising to 12 million.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Jakyl25 posted...

What was the pre-flop betting like, and what was the flop?

I have to know how insane Bond was for still being in this hand. <_<

Bond had 5 7 suited.

The flop was...ace eight six I think, and he had a flush draw with the eight six, as well as the straight draw.

So staying in the hand made sense, he had about a 35% chance of hitting the flush and an additional...I dunno, 10% chance of making the straight? Plus the 3-4% chance of hitting the nuts.

As for the pre-flop betting...assuming Bond had the BB.

Based on what we see...there's 24 million in the pot on the turn, and the BB is 1 million. So after the blinds you have 1.5 million in the pot.

Dude #1 limps because he has Q K suited, makes sense.

Dude #2 limps because he has pocket eights, makes sense.

Chiffre limps because he has the small blind and gets a half-priced call with ace six offsuit, not a brilliant play but not out of the question with four players left.

Bond checks because he has nothing but may as well hang around.

Flop hits, Ace of hearts, eight of spades, six of spades. Dude #1 is on a strong flush draw, Dude #2 has trip eights, Chiffre has top and bottom pair, and Bond is on a strong flush/straight draw.

At this point, anyone could bet. Since the pot gets up to 24 million before the turn, someone bet 5 million and everyone called it. Either Dude #2 on his trip eights or Chiffre on his two pair, probably. Dude #1 has a 35% chance of hitting his flush, and it's a strong flush with K Q, so he'd stick around. And Bond has about a 50% chance of getting a strong hand, as well as 3-4% chance of cleaning house by getting the nuts on what is clearly a high powered hand.

I guess it works.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Rewatching though, the REALLY stupid part, and really something that's sort of unforgivable, is that Le Chiffre goes all in to match Bond's all in when he's clearly the chip leader.

That's the second time this happened in the movie.

That's not how it works, even my mother knows that.

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Mitt Romney 2012

As a former poker dealer it bothers me that they didn't sort out the main pot from the two side pots before revealing their cards.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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This scene isn't very good either.

I mean, bad guy has pocket kings, good guy has pocket aces. How original. -_-

And like a dealer would go for letting him bet his car.

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Mitt Romney 2012

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Well...Rounders.

IDK whenever I see a poker scene in a kids movie or a movie that isn't about poker but has a poker scene it's always 4 kings vs 4 aces or royal flush vs royal straight or 4 aces vs royal flush or something, so when I see that hand I'm just like...great.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Yeah, it legitimately hurts the movie for me.

I kinda feel petty for feeling that way but I can't help it.

After the hand where Bond is "eliminated", doesn't he go like "MAN I SHOULDN'T HAVE TRUSTED THAT TELL" with like the second best possible hand, like he was going to fold otherwise?

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"i could have a phd in ass studies." -Rusty

AlecTrevelyan006 posted...

Yeah, it legitimately hurts the movie for me.

I kinda feel petty for feeling that way but I can't help it.

After the hand where Bond is "eliminated", doesn't he go like "MAN I SHOULDN'T HAVE TRUSTED THAT TELL" with like the second best possible hand, like he was going to fold otherwise?

Yeah, he had kings full of aces, and JJ was the only thing he would have lost to...probably a 99.5% chance of winning that hand and ending the game.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Like in Rounders, in the first scene, you had nines full of aces lose to aces full of nines, which is a pretty meaty hand but completely believable and it works.

And the climatic scene, trip aces loses to a middling straight.

That's poker!

This is...uh...I dunno, I'm not asking them to show Bond folding thirty straight sets of rags but don't have four players enter the final hand with hands that would win 93% or more of the time.

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Mitt Romney 2012

From: the7joker7 | #017
Well...Rounders.

Yeah, I deleted my post because I realized that it was the same Bond movie.

The grainy footage had me thinking that this was some 70s bond flick with Texas Hold 'Em in it.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg

Yeah that scene was filmed with a potato I guess.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Not much of a Poker guy, but this topic was an interesting read anyway.

Now, can we get some poker experts to weigh in on this game from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure??



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One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

From: the7joker7 | #013

Rewatching though, the REALLY stupid part, and really something that's sort of unforgivable, is that Le Chiffre goes all in to match Bond's all in when he's clearly the chip leader.

That's the second time this happened in the movie.

That's not how it works, even my mother knows that.

actually, the really stupid part is that bond should have showed first, not last

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Don't worry guys, I have all the clubs

From: Psycho_Kenshin | #023

Not much of a Poker guy, but this topic was an interesting read anyway.

Now, can we get some poker experts to weigh in on this game from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure??

poker doesn't work that way

joto could call with what he has, he's not forced to come up with money for the hand, just because the other guy raised more

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Don't worry guys, I have all the clubs

The stupid part is that it's Texas Hold'em instead of Baccarat.

and the entire movie

SpeedYoshi posted...

From: the7joker7 | #013

Rewatching though, the REALLY stupid part, and really something that's sort of unforgivable, is that Le Chiffre goes all in to match Bond's all in when he's clearly the chip leader.

That's the second time this happened in the movie.

That's not how it works, even my mother knows that.

actually, the really stupid part is that bond should have showed first, not last

Eh I wouldn't fault a poker novice for not knowing the Order of Operations for a showdown.

But not understanding how to match an all-in bet...that's pretty bad.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Also according to YT comments the asian guy had the BB.

So basically...asian guy checked with KQ suited, makes sense. Black guy calls because he has pocket eights, fine. But...

Le Chiffre limps one million with A 6 offsuit and Bond limps 500k with 7 5 suited.

I don't think much of those decisions.

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Mitt Romney 2012

I LOOOOOOOOOVE CR, but in any other movie, the story would be about that card game. That's freakin' insane kind of luck

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You know who's sexy? Black Turtle, the 2010 Games Contest Guru Winner, that's who!

From: the7joker7 | #027

SpeedYoshi posted...

From: the7joker7 | #013

Rewatching though, the REALLY stupid part, and really something that's sort of unforgivable, is that Le Chiffre goes all in to match Bond's all in when he's clearly the chip leader.

That's the second time this happened in the movie.

That's not how it works, even my mother knows that.

actually, the really stupid part is that bond should have showed first, not last

Eh I wouldn't fault a poker novice for not knowing the Order of Operations for a showdown.

But not understanding how to match an all-in bet...that's pretty bad.

Unless everyone at the table was a poker novice, which is a ridiculous assumption. Not to mention the dealer and the people running it could have asked for his hand.

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Don't worry guys, I have all the clubs

SpeedYoshi posted...

From: the7joker7 | #027

SpeedYoshi posted...

From: the7joker7 | #013

Rewatching though, the REALLY stupid part, and really something that's sort of unforgivable, is that Le Chiffre goes all in to match Bond's all in when he's clearly the chip leader.

That's the second time this happened in the movie.

That's not how it works, even my mother knows that.

actually, the really stupid part is that bond should have showed first, not last

Eh I wouldn't fault a poker novice for not knowing the Order of Operations for a showdown.

But not understanding how to match an all-in bet...that's pretty bad.

Unless everyone at the table was a poker novice, which is a ridiculous assumption. Not to mention the dealer and the people running it could have asked for his hand.

Yeah, I just mean meta-wise. If you assume the director and people working on the movie doesn't know poker at all, they should still understand you don't need to call a 40 million all-in bet with your...80 million or whatever. I'd understand not knowing that Bond has to go first in a showdown. It's still stupid but the all-in thing sounds like something even a 9 year old would know.

Anyway, based on this website I just found...odds of a straight flush in holdem is 0.00139%. Full house is 0.144%. Flush is 0.197%. So, the odds of all four happening in one hand...I may be doing this wrong but...I think it would be...

.000005678. So one out of every eighteen million hands will produce those four plays, and that's not even accounting for how good the hands were (AKQ, aces, etc).

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Mitt Romney 2012

Do you guys really care that they didn't bother with side pots and didn't make Bond go first?


That **** would be incredibly tedious and possibly ruin a dramatic scene that is supposed to make Bond look awesome, they are not going to do that.

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CoolCly posted...

Do you guys really care that they didn't bother with side pots and didn't make Bond go first?


That **** would be incredibly tedious and possibly ruin a dramatic scene that is supposed to make Bond look awesome, they are not going to do that.

You could have written a situation where you don't need to fudge the basic rules of the game.

Or, better idea, have the asian dude throw down his hand as soon as the bets all get pushed in with no prompt for a showdown. IIRC that's legal and would be a reasonable method to get the point of the scene across.

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Mitt Romney 2012

Or howabout how it's supposed to be a dramatic Baccarat showdown but they changed it to Hold'em to be more mainstream, and thus they had to make up a ridiculous round that would never happen in real life.

It would have almost been a good movie if they kept baccarat in. Almost. There's still the problem of that cowboy calling himself Bond.

Forbirol posted...

Or howabout how it's supposed to be a dramatic Baccarat showdown but they changed it to Hold'em to be more mainstream, and thus they had to make up a ridiculous round that would never happen in real life.

It would have almost been a good movie if they kept baccarat in. Almost. There's still the problem of that cowboy calling himself Bond.

In fairness Baccarat is basically completely luck.

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Mitt Romney 2012

From: Forbirol | #034

Or howabout how it's supposed to be a dramatic Baccarat showdown but they changed it to Hold'em to be more mainstream, and thus they had to make up a ridiculous round that would never happen in real life.

It would have almost been a good movie if they kept baccarat in. Almost. There's still the problem of that cowboy calling himself Bond.

From: the7joker7 | #035

Forbirol posted...

Or howabout how it's supposed to be a dramatic Baccarat showdown but they changed it to Hold'em to be more mainstream, and thus they had to make up a ridiculous round that would never happen in real life.

It would have almost been a good movie if they kept baccarat in. Almost. There's still the problem of that cowboy calling himself Bond.

In fairness Baccarat is basically completely luck.

This. It wasn't changed for mainstream reasons (check the Martini recipe online - it specifically is not done that way anymore but was kept because it was a very Bond thing). It was changed because Baccarat couldn't carry the dramatic tension of the scene in a movie.

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Parent Trap has the best poker scene.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.