Board 8 > SeabassDebeste ranks the Game of Thrones arcs [spoiler]

(+) Yeah! (+)

... mayhaps.
---

I hope it's Oberyn. I love that guy. He was excellent in the show, but I remember talking my brother's ear off so much when I read the books (long before the show was even announced) about how much I loved the Red Viper. Then I was super excited when it was finally his time to join the show.


I actually don't remember him whatseover from the books at this point. I have no idea what he was like, it's been so long. I just remember him being my favourite character in the series (until Reek Theon in ADWD). I'm actually looking forward to your book section about him just to get insight into what I liked about him so much, haha.
---

I absolutely would not have guessed that arc but I can't even disagree. Tywin is probably the best villain on the show.
---

Theon, at this point, is certainly someone to root for, lol. His redemption arc is so great.
---

I think the show certainly takes that POV, currently.
---

You don't think the books take that POV?
---

Good q. I'm not trying to draw a distinction between book and show there - I'd say the book is even more sympathetic to Theon by the end of ADWD - but between viewer and show.

I think Season 2 Theon surpasses ACOK Theon in portrayal and arguably sympathy, while Seasons 5-6 Theon are distinctly lesser than ADWD Theon in both. See my problems with S3-S6 Theon, the subjugation of Sansa in Winterfell, and my opinion on the S6 Ironborn arc for basically why I don't feel the show has exactly turned Theon into someone I actually find myself rooting for.

More succinctly: what the show wants you to feel is not necessarily what you should feel as a viewer. Case in point: the show wants you to be high-fiving when Brienne executes Stannis.
---

speaking of the books I can't wait till I turn 40 and the next one comes out
---

3. The Wolf and the Hound (Seasons 3-4)

Key points: Arya Stark flees the Brotherhood without Banners and is almost immediately abducted by Sandor Clegane, who has been robbed by the Brotherhood. Clegane plans to ransom Arya to her family, but Robb and Catelyn are massacred just as Arya arrives at the Twins. Arya and the Hound wander the Riverlands toward the Eyrie, subsisting off robbery and murder, but when they arrive at the Bloody Gate of the Vale, Arya's aunt Lysa is dead. Collapsing from infected wounds and a broken leg, Sandor begs Arya to end his life - and she denies him this. Arya sets sail from Saltpans to Braavos.

I'm trying to imagine the excitement of the Game of Thrones showrunners when they found out that they got to produce this arc. 'Wait, so you're telling me two of the best actors on the show are coming together instead of separating? And we've got more than a whole season to explore them? And we're almost entirely unconstrained by book guidance?'

What can I say? It's pure fireworks the entire time. Sandor Clegane is a champion in quite the literal sense early in his run, despite working for the Lannisters. He prevents his brother from murdering Loras (and thus wins the Tourney of the Hand), and he rescues Sansa from the riot in King's Landing when no one else is there for her. He's gigantic and fierce in battle. But he's also a coarse motherf***er. His face is scarred; no 'Ser' adorns his name; he demands a kiss from a teenage girl; he drinks entirely too much wine; and he threatens to 'rape the corpses' of the battlement under his command... before turning tail and running from the battle. Never exactly a POV character, the fear we see in his eyes when he faces the Wildfire is our first unfiltered glimpse into Sandor's psyche.

The version of the Hound that kidnaps Arya is worn down and disgraced. No longer in the employ of the Lannisters and penniless, he's got a sad dream of ransoming Arya for money. Doing so is of course hardly a simple kidnapping - Arya is incredibly strong-willed and resourceful. Sandor's struggles to contain Arya reveal a lot about himself. Steadfastly, as he did with Sansa, Sandor refuses to pretend to be good. He wants things told as they are. Among the most important truths to the Hound involve his lack of title and the scarring on his face: that when it comes to conduct, being 'Ser' means absolutely jack s***. It's something we all know intellectually, of course, from the actions of Jaime and Gregor, but it's striking that a character internalizes that contradiction as part of his identity.

Making him even more tragic is that you can see Sandor's human heart in conflict with itself. He so desperately wishes that life were a song, that righteousness begat power, that his brother would face justice. The Hound exhibits learned helplessness - he rejects that he could be a good person and survive, with deliberately bad manners and deliberately evil behavior. His low points are naturally kidnapping Arya and robbing the farmer who takes them in (a seriously WTF moment that wasn't in the books). Yet even with his bad intentions, the Hound can't suppress all of his humanity. There's an obvious, genuine fondness for the both of the Stark girls, and he feels absolutely compelled to keep it real with them. Shrouded in insult are the messages of wisdom and cynicism that Sandor Clegane has accrued throughout his life.

As for Arya, the girl has been badass as hell since her first display of unlikely archery skills, and that never once changes here. Part of what makes Arya so compelling in the first four seasons is that she always manages to elevate - and be elevated by - the powerful men in her life. Whether it's Eddard, Syrio, Yoren, Jaqen, Tywin Lannister, or Beric Dondarrion, Arya spends her time under the influence of variably admirable male role models. And the lessons she absorbs from each are different, but they trend toward the ugliness of life.
---

Of course, the reason that this arc is here is obvious. These are two extremely badass characters, with fiery chemistry, performing badass feats. I'm not sure there's a single bad scene in the entire run from the Hound and Arya's POV. They march for the Twins, and we witness the horrific, dark reprise of King in the North. The two wind up stranded together, and Arya decides to start exacting a little vengeance on the Freys - with Joffrey's former lapdog supplying the muscle. In my personal favorite scene, Arya gets Needle back extremely triumphantly in a scene where we happen to discover the Hound's affinity for chicken. The Hound tries his very best to crush Arya's hopes by demonstrating the worthlessness of her water dancing - 'Meryn Trant had armor - and a big f***ing sword!' - and only succeeds in stoking her fire and reminding her how to stab the heart. There's heartbreak for everyone when Sandor robs the farmer. And when they hear that Lysa is dead, the utter hysteria of Arya's laugh is amazing - it's like a psychotic break, but you realize... of course this happened. That's life as a Stark.

The end of the arc is dispiriting, but it makes sense. The constant trekking and skirmish takes its toll on the Hound, and he's worn down when they come across Brienne. From her perspective this is one of the worst scenes, but from Arya's, of course this happens. A stranger claims to know what's best for Arya, and decides to demonstrate it by brutalizing the person who has been her most reliable protector. Arya drops the Hound from her infamous list and skips town on the maniac woman and retreats to her previous guardian. It's an incredible payoff and a beautiful outro for Season 4 as Arya sails from Westeros: Valar morghulis.

Book notes: Not much to say here. Very little of Season 4 here is actually scripted from the books. This arc is a massive triumph for the showrunners. It's proof that Game of Thrones's showrunners can do it while deviating from GRRM's script. It's also obvious evidence that you don't need copious special effects or surging plotline to make for incredibly compelling television on this show. I wish other character-driven arcs could have been shown as much love or affection, but then, it's not easy to have this type of 'free time' for 'filler,' and few character sets are as charismatic as Arya and the Hound.

I hope these two are united in Season 7.
---

MariaTaylor posted...

speaking of the books I can't wait till I turn 40 and the next one comes out

This is one of the real sad things about the slowness of the writing process. Not only have people literally already died waiting for the series to finish, but also by the time the next book(s) come out - if they do - many people will have moved on so far in their lives that it's not really the same experience anymore.

Not to mention that it's incredibly dispiriting that TWOW isn't even going to be the final book. I'm glad we're getting the show to wrap things up, even though it'll inevitably be much worse. I'm envious of the people being born right now who will get to grow up and watch HBO's remake of Game of Thrones in 30 years with fresh eyes, based on the actually completed text!
---

yeah. I can't remember exactly when I first started reading the novels but I know it was well before A Feast for Crows came out. so at the minimum I've waited11 years to read two books. I'm definitely not the same person I was 11 years ago.
---

Loved the Wolf and the Hound traveling together. My favorite part of it was when she tried poking him with needle. Hilarious.
---

I would've watched an entire show of just Arya and the Hound tbh
---

Retag
---

MariaTaylor posted...

yeah. I can't remember exactly when I first started reading the novels but I know it was well before A Feast for Crows came out. so at the minimum I've waited11 years to read two books. I'm definitely not the same person I was 11 years ago.

For comparison's sake, many people started reading Harry Potter at about age eight or ten or so with just a few books in the series. They were seventeen when Harry turned seventeen in Book 7.

yazzy14 posted...

Loved the Wolf and the Hound traveling together. My favorite part of it was when she tried poking him with needle. Hilarious.

life lessons! loved the hound s***ting all over meryn trant.

Johnbobb posted...

I would've watched an entire show of just Arya and the Hound tbh

one of the greatest parts of S4 right here.

Anagram posted...

Retag

might i recommend the 'track topic' feature!
---

so i think everyone knows what #1 and #2 are

open to guesses on the ranking, i guess
---

#1 involves Tyrion
---

the only harry potter book I've read is the one with the basilisk

I can't remember much about it. I was in 6th grade? maybe a little younger? went on some kind of vacation on a person's boat and they happened to have the book there. I found standing around on a boat all day to be pretty boring so I just sat down and spent the day reading the book.

it was... okay.
---

that was book 2. it's probably the weakest of the 'young harry' books. definitely a series that deserves to be read from book 1!
---

yeah harry potter is not something I'd object to reading if given the chance but it's also not high on my list of priorities right now. I have very little free time for reading. or maybe it's more accurate to say I'm not as enthusiastic about it as I was in the past. as hobbies like video games have been more effective at entertaining my inferior brain.

it would have to be something huge like the next ASOIAF book to really get me to set aside time and make it a priority. I'd probably breeze through it in 24 hours or less like I did with the winds of winter.

right now I'm reading through a collection of short stories by Ray Bradbury. it has taken me about two weeks to get through I think 6 of them. although to be fair for one of those entire weeks I did not read at all. aside from that I read between 0-5 minutes a day.
---

you breezed through the winds of winter in 24 hours or less?

WHAT HAPPENED

DID THEON SAVE THE NORTH
---

er sorry I meant a dance with dragons
---

and the answer is yes

then they defeated sauron and jon snow reigned happily ever after for 300 years
---

'What... what game?'

'The only game. The game of thrones.'
---

I just want you to know that I don't have a ton of time, but I read this every few days when I remember about it before going to bed and I'm on page 4 so please keep bumped for as long as possible I'm enjoying the write-ups! I only discovered it a week or so go, though

edit: I just scrolled up and it appears that you're not done yet, so hopefully I have nothing to worry about!
---

#1 is something to do with Bran isn't it?

J/k. Pretty good rankings overall, interested to see which one does get #1 though.

Was the second last topic, so thought I would save it for you.
---