Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks the Dark Souls II Bosses and Areas

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, it makes sense that the most divisive game would get a pretty divisive overall ranking. This has been a lot more fun to tally than the previous ones though!
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dark souls 2 review bingo

- calls the game bad but rates it a 4.5/5
- complains about the camera, refuses to learn how to control the camera
Free Space: you take an elevator UP and then get to a CASTLE!!!!!
- enemies ambushed me. BAD! (this does not happen in any of the previous games)
- cites objectively false information to justify arbitrary dislike ("this game was designed for magic using characters" .... what?)
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UltimaterializerX posted...

I know how to control the camera. It's still garbage.

you are just absolutely 100% wrong about this.

there are thousands literally thousands of testimonials and video evidence that disproves what you are saying. go watch speed runs or challenge runs from ANY professional streamer who is playing the game. huh, that's odd... the camera seems to work just fine when they are playing the game. when an extremely skilled player defeats a boss while naked using only their fists the camera never messes up and "causes" them to die. do you think this is just a coincidence? do you think they just HAPPENED to get lucky and were able to complete an insanely difficult challenge because the camera just coincidentally did not mess up for them the one time they succeeded?

or do you think it might be possible that the camera in these games CAN be controlled and you are simply refusing to learn how to do it, because you currently lack the skill and it takes practice to develop that skill. stop claiming that you know how to control the camera. you obviously do not.
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Sent my list in.

I feel like I hated most every area except for my top 10 or so.
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metaIslug posted...

you forgot

- the controls are not analogue, you only move in 8 directions (literally what)

oh I could have gone on for quite a bit, but I only needed 5 for BINGO
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i've just never heard anyone complain about the camera in any souls game ever, so it's weird to me that ulti hates it so vehemently and nobody else even notices.

Yeah I have no idea where camera complaints come from.
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it's basically the equivalent of a person who can't swing a baseball bat correctly complaining about home runs.

sometimes the ball goes over the fence and sometimes it doesn't. there's no way to control it!!!!
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sometimes you swing your bat and it doesn't even hit the ball

after 4 innings the developers still haven't found a way to create a mechanic where the bat swings automatically and puts the ball into play for me
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MariaTaylor posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

I know how to control the camera. It's still garbage.

you are just absolutely 100% wrong about this.

there are thousands literally thousands of testimonials and video evidence that disproves what you are saying. go watch speed runs or challenge runs from ANY professional streamer who is playing the game. huh, that's odd... the camera seems to work just fine when they are playing the game. when an extremely skilled player defeats a boss while naked using only their fists the camera never messes up and "causes" them to die. do you think this is just a coincidence? do you think they just HAPPENED to get lucky and were able to complete an insanely difficult challenge because the camera just coincidentally did not mess up for them the one time they succeeded?

or do you think it might be possible that the camera in these games CAN be controlled and you are simply refusing to learn how to do it, because you currently lack the skill and it takes practice to develop that skill. stop claiming that you know how to control the camera. you obviously do not.

Learning how to control a bad system does not make it good and your analogies are bad.

The camera sucks in DS2 and it's even worse in Bloodborne to the point where some parts are unplayably bad. Metal Gear Solid 4 is the only game to ever get a camera system right.
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We should still use medical equipment and techniques from the 1800s. Sure it's archaic, but if you don't learn how to use it you're obviously a bad doctor.
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Ulti I think you're under the misguided impression that anyone is trying to convince you of anything at this point. pretty sure we've moved on to just making jokes at your expense.
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Oh right, need to remember to remind my friend about this.
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I'm done my rankings, will PM them soon-ish
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Licia, Creighton, and Navlaan are my favorites
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The worst part about ds2 is head tracking. It single handily makes the game feel like you are meant to use cheese strategies versus like actual skill.
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what is head tracking
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MariaTaylor posted...

what is head tracking

In DS2 it refers to the enemy ability to track your movement with attacks, even if said attack would have missed normally.
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oh.

well if you're bad at the game it would make you want to use cheese strategies then, yes.
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dark souls 1 = circle strafe around opponents mindlessly and punish them with instant backstabs = skill!!

dark souls 2 = enemies track you with their attacks so you have to properly time dodges in order to avoid getting hit = unfair!!!!!!!
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No it's just bad design. If the developers wanted to they could make enemies have different attacks that cover different areas at different speeds etc. Not

"Hey lets give this guy two attacks, but no matter where the player moves he'll always get hit because we'll make sure the enemy can move on a point in a circle while actually doing the attack. Oh, and we'll also make sure later in the game to add enemies that attack faster than the player can actually move... and put multiples of them in the same area."
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yeah I'll take advice on game balance and design from the person who can't even dodge attacks in dark souls 2, the slowest game in the franchise. no, really. everyone who can dodge the attacks properly is wrong. you're correct. it's the game that's bad, not you.
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there are a few times where it's really egregious. like, enemy swiveling in an entire circle during the windup of one attack. it looks ridiculous when you see it.

I've never heard the expression head tracking before but for the record bloodborne has this too (vicar amelia's overhand smash winds up slowly but when she launches it it always snaps in the direction of the player, that's just one example). and, funny enough, I'm FAIRLY certain there's at least a few enemies in dark souls 1 that do this as well. although I could be wrong so feel free to correct me if I am (anyone who knows for sure).

by the way, even the PLAYER can do this. it's hard to describe exactly how to do it but basically if you are unlocked and then you lock on while attacking it will snap your character in the direction of the target as far as possible with your equipped moveset. some weapons do have really, really insane snap angles too. maybe there are some NPC enemies who have more ridiculous snap angles than the player does but these aren't exactly games that are built around the idea of fighting enemies that have equal limitations to the player. the entire franchise is about defeating bosses that have massive advantages over you.
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I don't know where you get the idea I'm bad at the game. I have a base character clears for both 1 and 2. I actually think DS2 is easier than DS1.

It's not like I invented the complaint either. I didn't get DS2 until much later after its release (I'm not a huge fan of the series) and it was already a pretty widespread complaint along with hitboxes. Like even on the first boss (well the tree or whatever it was) it's obvious the actual model versus where it has to reach to actually do damage to me is way off.

I mean fight something like The Rotten (which is probably the worst culprit) and then realize that a lot of enemies in the game do something to a lesser extent. Those dragon knights are pretty bad too. If I remember they are the ones that just endlessly attack and it's like "What are you supposed to do against that?" I also think a couple of enemies can do this in midair continuously.

For that matter the Rotten is not really a hard boss. It's just not fun because virtually the only challenge is like not stepping into the poison or whatever it was (fire?) and not getting his by attacks that are very telegraphed, but the telegraph doesn't really matter. IMO the funnest boss in the game was like Chariot or something because it was interesting, made you use items you might not have thought to use before, etc.

Oh, and I'm almost sure strafing was the reason it was put in. But I do think they could have done something better than what they did. Like the main thing is that enemies don't even have to seem to move to track, they just f***ing spin. I would have no issue if they like took steps or maybe had attacks that hit you if you were close to them and moving to their side or something. Not give everyone the same generic thing to counter something the player can do.
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I haven't even mentioned the f***ing Salamanders yet.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

I don't know where you get the idea I'm bad at the game

because I've played the games for over a thousand hours and spent additional countless time watching streamers, challenge runs, speed runs. I've watched good people play the game and I've watched bad people play the game. I know how bad people play, and exactly what kinds of complaints that creates.

you're literally complaining about the difficulty of THE ROTTEN who is piss easy. anyone could infer that you're not very good at the game. the issue is you lack the mechanical understanding to realize that you are bad at the game.. so it's much easier to just complain about "bad mechanics" and say you don't like the game.

I think it's perfectly fine to say you dislike a game if it's too difficult for you.

less fine when people who are bad at the game always have a million and one excuses for why it's the game's fault and not theirs. you get people who are the LEAST QUALIFIED to talk about the game difficulty and design always the ones complaining about it the most.
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I don't know if you even read my post because immediately after I said the rotten isn't really hard.
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yeah that is bad player 101

"this boss isn't really hard these are just all the TOTALLY UNFAIR reasons why it's difficult to fight him"
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Btw you sound basically like every DS fanboy trying to defend blatant flaws in the game. Just because it's possible to beat them in specific ways does not make it good design. Their narrative is "The tracking adds difficulty". And it does... in the wrong way.
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The main problem with Dark Souls II is the ice rabbit enemies. f*** those things.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Just because it's possible to beat them in specific ways does not make it good design.

okay, but just keep in mind who you are right now.

ulti said the exact same thing in this very topic when complaining about the camera in bloodborne and it turned out he was completely wrong and I was completely right. not only was I right, but I accurately predicted exactly what the issue was despite the fact that he kept denying it. not even like 72 hours later it was revealed he did not even understand basic camera mechanics like pressing the lock on button to center the camera behind the player.

so sure. let's see how this one plays out.
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I really like your odds
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Anyway, just a heads-up, THE DEADLINE IS MARCH 28, 11:59 PM.

@WickIebee
@IhatethisCPU
@Axl_Rose_85
@KokoroAkechi
@profDEADPOOL
@catastrophy15
@Johnbobb (Still need areas if you wanna)

That's everyone who participated last time or expressed interest ITT
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prof hasn't played dark souls 2 and I don't think cata is interested in ranking. not sure about anyone else on that list.
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Oh okay, good to know. Sorry about the tags :(

Anyway, we have 9 boss lists and 8 area lists. I think Demon's Souls had 9, so I'd like to get at least 1 more boss list. Think everyone likes those more anyway (Which makes me a sad man).
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My friend knows about the deadline, and I'm going to make sure to remind him, but he's just been busy.
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It's cool. There's not a big rush, as he has a week! Either way I won't be offended if he sits one out, so no pressure.
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BB does punish players for dodging haphazardly and one of the ways they do this is by creating interference when you get too close to walls but also making the areas very wide open. what this means is that a player who is focusing on their surroundings will likely stay in the center of the room where these issues won't become a problem. but if you are panic dodging or trying to constantly circle strafe around the enemy you have surrendered control of your footing -- either the enemy is dictating where you position yourself, because you are orbiting around the enemy, or your wild dodges are landing you in random locations.

when that happens you'll get stuck on a vase or a tombstone that is intentionally put there to catch you and cause you to get stuck. if you twist the camera it might cause unnatural zoom due to a branch looming overhead. bosses also move at rapid speeds and sometimes if you attempt to stay locked on this will cause your camera to snap around. this simulates the feeling of the impossibility that comes with trying to track a beast moving faster than the human eye.

I think if you disagree with those design decisions that is a valid complaint. but I also know that no one actually complains about the camera being bad to the extent that you were unless they are constantly panic dodging into walls and if their manual control of the camera hasn't reached mastery level yet. watching any "X's first time playing bloodborne" type stream or youtube vid reveals the same issues. people rely on dark souls 1 style circle strafing (even though dark souls 2 tried to teach people not to do this, they keep doing it anyway into bloodborne) which causes them to lose control of their positioning. maybe they are too reliant on the lock on. maybe they panic dodge too much and get caught on objects or walls. the symptoms are really easy to recognize. that's how I was able to instantly recognize what was going on.
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heh. you also might not remember this but one of my very first posts in your bloodborne topic was mentioning how I didn't enjoy the game very much at first either. it's difficult for me to really fault you for complaining too much. I just have a tendency to get really argumentative sometimes when it's something that I have 1000 hours of experience in and the other person has like 20 hours of experience but they refuse to listen to reason.

even though, the version of me who had played the game for only 20 hours and was still in the middle of my first playthrough would have absolutely still been b****ing about how Rom is "unfair" and there is "no reliable way to beat it."
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there is a small amount of tracking in dark souls 1 for sure, but they very clearly abused it a bit in dark souls 2. and this is coming from someone who likes dark souls 2 more than dark souls 1.