Board 8 > So do anime characters count as superheroes or are they just a western idea?

(+) Yeah! (+)

My firm is planning an office visit for university students with a superhero theme. We've been asked to provide our three favorite superheroes and I'm wondering if going GUTS GOKU VEGETA is just too much.
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Some are certainly superheroes.

Guts is probably not one of them.
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I think in the united states superhero is a word that is generally understood to mean western comic book character, whether they possess actual super powers or not.
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SupremeZero posted...

Some are certainly superheroes.

Guts is probably not one of them.

This, but I wouldn't stress the definition too much. Just put those three and if nobody else puts anime, then they probably won't get picked.
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Honestly, Sailor Moon is easily more of a Superhero-class character than Goku/Vegeta/Guts are.

Nothing to do with power levels or anything, it's more just that it's closer to the aesthetic and writing style. Goku and Vegeta are martial arts class characters, Guts is more Conanesque.
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I wouldn't say western, but super heroes have a much stricter definition. The relationship with society and other tropes are what make them super heroes and not...regular heroes.

I mean you can argue it, but in most contexts it means something specific. Even manga is starting to produce stories based on western superheroes, like My Hero Academia and One-Punch Man, which are very clearly differentiated from the Gokus and Kenshiros and Luffys.
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BowserCuffs posted...

Honestly, Sailor Moon is easily more of a Superhero-class character than Goku/Vegeta/Guts are.

GOKU GUTS TUXEDO MASK

And I thank you sir.
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and then there's Tiger and Bunny, which is an anime about superheroes

They (and maybe Sailor Moon and her ilk) are about the only ones I'd count, though.
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Oh yeah sentai stuff is basically the original eastern super hero
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

Honestly, Sailor Moon is easily more of a Superhero-class character than Goku/Vegeta/Guts are.

GOKU GUTS TUXEDO MASK

And I thank you sir.

Why Tuxedo Mask over Sailor Moon?
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Cuz all I remember him doing was showing up with a rose and leaving.
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Superheroes are generally considered to be a sub-genre character in western comics only. An individual creator outside of that sub-genre would need to explicitly state their character is a superhero otherwise.
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I would say that superheroes implies a very specific western style of character. However, if you're doing something that's "superhero themed" with no other specifics, you probably have more than enough leeway to think outside the box. Someone like Goku is well-known enough that it probably wouldn't get many second looks (and at a university people would probably think you were awesome).

wheres ariel and solid snakes ass
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do you consider Power Rangers to be superheroes

this will answer the question for you
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I don't think anyone would have a problem counting Goku as a superhero
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Cuz all I remember him doing was showing up with a rose and leaving.

that's all you remember because that's all he did

well he did drive a bus carrying other buses into a portal once too

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcha3bjLVz1qdultl.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NSO5quziDno/U5eEjY6wZlI/AAAAAAAAASc/Lj8DvTsVEJU/s1600/10-8.png
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Menji posted...

I don't think anyone would have a problem counting Goku as a superhero

I do. Because he's not a superhero. Super powers do not a superhero make.
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Goku can't be a superhero because he's s villain or so I hear anyways. Piccolo is totally a superhero though. I mean he's got a cape and is a good family role model and stuff.

Just put down the Great Saiyaman instead!
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Menji posted...

I don't think anyone would have a problem counting Goku as a superhero

Letting someone who is threatened to destroy the Earth and was barely stopped, and he broke every bone in your body easily before he was stopped, just so you can fight him again, is not something a superhero does.
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I like a superhero that isn't afraid to kill the villains. If you think about it arresting supervillains if pointless as fuck since they basically always get out and cause terror again, but it's also probably hard to come up with good villains on a regular basis and once they become HUGE you probably can't really kill them off for good either. I mean logically there is like no reason to not execute Joker on sight

I'd only consider characters explicitly called superheroes to be such

so basically, only in stuff like One-Punch Man and My Hero Academia
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KingButz posted...

I think in the united states superhero is a word that is generally understood to mean western comic book character, whether they possess actual super powers or not.

so is jughead a superhero
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MrGreenonion posted...

KingButz posted...

I think in the united states superhero is a word that is generally understood to mean western comic book character, whether they possess actual super powers or not.

so is jughead a superhero

https://i0.wp.com/majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CaptainHeroCover.jpg

really only magical girl or sentai kinds of characters

guts is certainly not a superhero.

goku and vegeta would be a stretch
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Great Saiyaman is a superhero, Goku is not. It's really pretty cut and dry. >_>
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Does Mr. Satan/Hercule count?

for your intended purposes goku is fine

Went with Goku/The Tick/Rogue. Think it'll go over fine.
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there's some kind of difference to me but I honestly can't quantify what it is

like I wouldn't even consider HEROMAN or One-Punch Man to be superheroes
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MariaTaylor posted...

there's some kind of difference to me but I honestly can't quantify what it is

like I wouldn't even consider HEROMAN or One-Punch Man to be superheroes

What why

They're actually superheroes
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what about emiya shirou
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Natwaf_akidna posted...

What why

MariaTaylor posted...

I honestly can't quantify what it is

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I think to be a superhero you have to fight crime and/or save the world while wearing a costume. That said, a lot of battle shounen is extremely similar thematically.
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I'd say to be a superhero you have to be in a modern city setting. So not GUTS. But Goku or Great Saiyaman (even more), One Punch Man, Sailor Moon, Tiger and Bunny, even someone like Yusuke Urameshi or Shinichi Izumi. They all have the trappings of a superhero, most of the tropes of a superhero. Fighting crime/saving the world, a secret identity that must be protected, etc..

i've got no issue calling Goku a superhero. being a martial artist doesn't change that - Iron Fist, Batman, etc fit the bill for that too. the sailor moon situation's a bit interesting since that... would mean basically all magical girls are superheroes. i'm not sure i'd really fit that there but the point basically comes to "transformation obtains power," which is basically the premise of superheroes like Green Lantern or Shazam.
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I would consider all magical girls as superheroes.

Wanglicious posted...

i've got no issue calling Goku a superhero. being a martial artist doesn't change that - Iron Fist, Batman, etc fit the bill for that too. the sailor moon situation's a bit interesting since that... would mean basically all magical girls are superheroes. i'm not sure i'd really fit that there but the point basically comes to "transformation obtains power," which is basically the premise of superheroes like Green Lantern or Shazam.

Goku isn't a superhero, though. Not because of his being a martial artist, as you're correct in that not prohibiting him from being one. Rather it's his very nature that stops him from being one.

Superheroes don't live for fighting, Goku does. And as I stated before, no superhero would allow an enemy who threatened to destroy the Earth, and who helped in killing tons of people & half of the only people who regularly defended the planet, to escape to safety even while he's vowing to get revenge.....just because said "superhero" wants to fight the guy again, while laying immobilized because the villain crushed every bone in your body & someone else had to defeat the guy.

Superheroes also don't throw people to the slaughter hoping that that person's hidden power kicks in to beat the villain that you cannot beat.....except the person you threw to the slaughter A)has a history of not being able to reliably access said hidden power, and B)had no clue how to unlock the max hidden power that you just knew he possessed. So, all the while you were standing around watching this little 9 year old boy get curbstomped while he doesn't understand & wants you to make the hurting stop. Piccalo even called Goku out on that shit.
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Gundammike posted...

Superheroes don't live for fighting, Goku does.

there's plenty of superhero mercenaries in Marvel and DC, so that can't be right. we've got people who literally became superheroes because of fighting, that goes down to Captain America. X-Men have multiple teams entirely around fighting, some more extreme than that and straight into black ops with people who quite like to fight.

then we've got anti-heroes, a group who would still generally be put under the "superhero" label if broken down. all in all, this can't be a qualification. i'm pretty sure there's martial artists that seemingly only exist to fight or train who are superheroes, though i'm not sure how much backstory randomly is in there for the few that come to mind.



Gundammike posted...

no superhero would allow an enemy who threatened to destroy the Earth, and who helped in killing tons of people & half of the only people who regularly defended the planet, to escape to safety even while he's vowing to get revenge.....just because said "superhero" wants to fight the guy again, while laying immobilized because the villain crushed every bone in your body & someone else had to defeat the guy.

well the first half is factually incorrect - X-Men and Magneto are a clear example. or Dr. Strange and Hulk during World War Hulk. Batman with countless villains and that one's with Batman not only fully knowing they're gonna fight again but Batman's known to get some pleasure in that. not quite to the same level that Goku does mind you but... it's there.


i mean Goku's got some dumb shit on him yeah but your objection to him being a superhero or not lies entirely in your objection to him being a hero or not. and for that you can cite the original Dragonball as a pretty clean record that'd 100% work.
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goku ain't no hero
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I'd say the only thing disqualifying Goku from being a superhero would be that a character in his universe actually dresses up like a superhero (Great Saiyaman), which suggests that Goku isn't viewed as such by the rules of his own universe

That's gettin' kinda meta, though.
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Shouldn't being a superhero have an "intention" component? I mean, Goku isn't running around trying to make existence a better place, he's training for the next strong fighter to come along so he can fight them. It doesn't seem to matter if that person was up to good or bad, just as long as Goku can fight them.
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that would depend on how many x-men you're willing to not call superheroes or supervillains. many of them don't have much of a "make the world a better place" drive, including Wolverine. that one's more of just "we're alive and want to keep living our lives in peace."

that's without getting into how they play up their intentions, as you'd then get into "is Dr. Doom a hero?" or "is Magneto a hero?" type questions. then there's the Fantastic Four to play off that too, Reed pretty much just wants to do science all day and night and he's Mr. Fantastic. or Namor, who just wants to enjoy being king.
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as of the current arc Goku would now be classified as a supervillain
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Goku is not a superhero because the definition of a superhero in his universe is already defined, and it's not him.
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hey now in the current arc they've repeatedly stated that everyone should be happy goku did what he did because otherwise they'd all be dead.
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Wanglicious posted...

there's plenty of superhero mercenaries in Marvel and DC, so that can't be right. we've got people who literally became superheroes because of fighting, that goes down to Captain America. X-Men have multiple teams entirely around fighting, some more extreme than that and straight into black ops with people who quite like to fight.

then we've got anti-heroes, a group who would still generally be put under the "superhero" label if broken down. all in all, this can't be a qualification. i'm pretty sure there's martial artists that seemingly only exist to fight or train who are superheroes, though i'm not sure how much backstory randomly is in there for the few that come to mind.

These characters work because they have context in a world where heroes exist. And within that world, they're not even always referred to as heroes. We just refer to them as superheroes because of the context since it's easier and more of a genre than anything else. For example if I was describing Suicide Squad to someone who had no idea who they were, I'd describe them as a superhero team because they are in the genre even though they aren't heroes.

I would lean towards Goku not being a superhero since his motivations are neutral at best, but he's close enough to what I'd consider one because of the setting and style. But people like Guts or Edward Elric are not. They'really just fantasy protagonists.
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They had the Great Saiyaman to contrast Goku vs Superheros (Gohan stopping petty crimes, which Goku doesn't, or at least not since DB, which judged by that standard would make him a superhero). They've also got their parody Superman character who shows up to fail. It usually contrasts the costumed heroes as simply not being up to the task like Goku is, like a distinction between Batman and Superman, not that he isn't a superhero. He destroys world destroying threats and saves the universe all the time. He has his own reasons, but so do many heroes. His origin is even a direct reference to Superman.

Your description of the Suicide Squad would be wrong because they are in way shape or form superheros. They're a supervillain team controlled by the government. People would be even more confused by describing them as superheros.

And I agree, like I said before, you need a modern city setting for an anime character to be considered a superhero because that's the only place superheros exist. Elric or whatever need not apply. In a fantasy world they're just legendary heroes, more akin to mythology and legend types or just in general fantasy tropes.

so what about Future Trunks?
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