Poll of the Day > Do you support the estate tax?

(+) Yeah! (+)

.....what are your thoughts on this tax?
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No, I'm not sure why anyone would.
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Zangulus posted...

Nothing like taxing money twice.

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I've got no problem with taxing inheritances, but if they're taxing it twice like you guys are saying, than repeal it.
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I hate all taxes, but estate taxes really are bad. It is basically the government asking for money for the privilege of dying in this country.
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If Trump's going to repeal it, I support him, for once.
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Yes
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Hell no

Get rid of that backwards ass shit right now

VapeMassTree posted...

Hell no

Get rid of that backwards ass shit right now

yeah well the u.s. govt makes a lot of money off of the estate tax
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Sure, it is basically income for the people getting it.
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slacker03150 posted...

Sure, it is basically income for the people getting it.

It was income for the original individual that earned the money. It was already taxed as their income.
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Estate tax is a good tax. First off, they don't even tax the first several million dollars, so it only even hits the ultra wealthy. The estate tax will never effect 99% of this board, and that's an underestimate, if anything. And it helps limit how much of a giant leg up wealthy families can pass on to prevent a permanent nobility (well, restrict it...we definitely still have a permanent nobility).

Also, nearly all money is taxed multiple times, stop acting like the estate tax is special. I get taxed on my income. Then that money, which has already been taxed, gets taxed again nearly any time I buy shit (sales tax), earn on my savings (and that's taxed at income rates, not capital gains, so that's a double fuck you), or do anything else other than keep the damn money in a mattress.

streamofthesky posted...

First off, they don't even tax the first several million dollars

Every state is different. In NJ for example, I believe the exemption is somewhere just above $600K.

But you're right..Nearly all money was and will be taxed multiple times. If it could only be taxed once, then there would be nothing left to tax.

That being said, I don't like the estate tax
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streamofthesky posted...

Also, nearly all money is taxed multiple times, stop acting like the estate tax is special. I get taxed on my income. Then that money, which has already been taxed, gets taxed again nearly any time I buy shit (sales tax), earn on my savings (and that's taxed at income rates, not capital gains, so that's a double fuck you), or do anything else other than keep the damn money in a mattress.

All that does is help support the case - changes from "I don't want my money taxed twice" to "I don't want my money taxed three times!" (or thrice if you wanna go that route)
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Bill earns 5 million dollars. He pays income tax and has 3.5 million left.
Bill dies and leaves his money to his good friend Fred the hobo.
Fred has done no work to earn any money, but gets an income of 3.5 million dollars from the late Bill.
Fred then pays the estate tax and is left with 2.5 million.

Both Bill and Fred were only taxed a single time on their new income.
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slacker03150 posted...

Bill earns 5 million dollars. He pays income tax and has 3.5 million left.
Bill dies and leaves his money to his good friend Fred the hobo.
Fred has done no work to earn any money, but gets an income of 3.5 million dollars from the late Bill.
Fred then pays the estate tax and is left with 2.5 million.

Both Bill and Fred were only taxed a single time on their new income.

Fred put up with Bill's bullshit for years
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i don't agree they're basically saying you don't own your own money
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The estate tax may be stupid given the absurd number of times that money has already been taxed, but how do you make up for the shortfall?

streamofthesky posted...

Estate tax is a good tax. First off, they don't even tax the first several million dollars, so it only even hits the ultra wealthy. The estate tax will never effect 99% of this board, and that's an underestimate, if anything. And it helps limit how much of a giant leg up wealthy families can pass on to prevent a permanent nobility (well, restrict it...we definitely still have a permanent nobility).

That's a lot more than just the super wealthy. Most estates are larger than people assume. The only way you'd have a really tiny estate is if you never owned property or if you died really young.

streamofthesky posted...

The estate tax will never effect 99% of this board, and that's an underestimate, if anything

I find that claim dubious. I know I'm impacted and, depending on your state, the threshold is a lot lower so a lot of other people are likely affected. And keep in mind that most inheritances are split multiple ways.

streamofthesky posted...

And it helps limit how much of a giant leg up wealthy families can pass on to prevent a permanent nobility (well, restrict it...we definitely still have a permanent nobility).

Except that's not a realistic concern in the least. Hereditary wealth is mostly lost by the end of the second generation and almost entirely gone by the end of the third. I know that your knowledge of history is nonexistent, but this was even a problem with ACTUAL nobility which led to laws being passed where the sum of the inheritance had to be left to the eldest son rather than divided among the children. However, even when the entire estate was left to one heir, nobles STILL lost their fortunes.

Also keep in mind that the state tax didn't exist in this country -- at least not in its current form -- until about 100 years ago so this was never the intention of the founding fathers.

streamofthesky posted...

Also, nearly all money is taxed multiple times, stop acting like the estate tax is special. I get taxed on my income. Then that money, which has already been taxed, gets taxed again nearly any time I buy shit (sales tax), earn on my savings (and that's taxed at income rates, not capital gains, so that's a double fuck you), or do anything else other than keep the damn money in a mattress.

Which is also bullshit, but slightly bullshit. In this case, you're STILL hitting those other taxes so you don't need an additional tax on top of it. Plus with the other taxes, there are semi-valid reasons for it (well, although federal income taxes exist because we stopped doing tariffs so Americans hurt twice by the lack of tariffs)

slacker03150 posted...

Both Bill and Fred were only taxed a single time on their new income.

But the money has been taxed multiple times... It's the same pile of money and no transactions have taken place.
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streamofthesky posted...

Estate tax is a good tax. First off, they don't even tax the first several million dollars, so it only even hits the ultra wealthy. The estate tax will never effect 99% of this board, and that's an underestimate, if anything. And it helps limit how much of a giant leg up wealthy families can pass on to prevent a permanent nobility (well, restrict it...we definitely still have a permanent nobility).

Also, nearly all money is taxed multiple times, stop acting like the estate tax is special. I get taxed on my income. Then that money, which has already been taxed, gets taxed again nearly any time I buy shit (sales tax), earn on my savings (and that's taxed at income rates, not capital gains, so that's a double fuck you), or do anything else other than keep the damn money in a mattress.

This. And who better to tax than dead rich people?
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Claude_Frollo posted...

streamofthesky posted...

Estate tax is a good tax. First off, they don't even tax the first several million dollars, so it only even hits the ultra wealthy. The estate tax will never effect 99% of this board, and that's an underestimate, if anything. And it helps limit how much of a giant leg up wealthy families can pass on to prevent a permanent nobility (well, restrict it...we definitely still have a permanent nobility).

Also, nearly all money is taxed multiple times, stop acting like the estate tax is special. I get taxed on my income. Then that money, which has already been taxed, gets taxed again nearly any time I buy shit (sales tax), earn on my savings (and that's taxed at income rates, not capital gains, so that's a double fuck you), or do anything else other than keep the damn money in a mattress.

This. And who better to tax than dead rich people?

yeah but that's like saying it ain't me so screw them, that tax doesn't apply to me
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The money was already taxed
they're just going to tax it again when someone buys something with it
wake up people!!!
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Smallville posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

streamofthesky posted...

Estate tax is a good tax. First off, they don't even tax the first several million dollars, so it only even hits the ultra wealthy. The estate tax will never effect 99% of this board, and that's an underestimate, if anything. And it helps limit how much of a giant leg up wealthy families can pass on to prevent a permanent nobility (well, restrict it...we definitely still have a permanent nobility).

Also, nearly all money is taxed multiple times, stop acting like the estate tax is special. I get taxed on my income. Then that money, which has already been taxed, gets taxed again nearly any time I buy shit (sales tax), earn on my savings (and that's taxed at income rates, not capital gains, so that's a double fuck you), or do anything else other than keep the damn money in a mattress.

This. And who better to tax than dead rich people?

yeah but that's like saying it ain't me so screw them, that tax doesn't apply to me

I like to think that I wouldn't care if I had that much.
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Won't somebody think of the rich!?
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Lightning Bolt posted...

Won't somebody think of the rich!?

It's not even the rich, it's also countless working class Americans. The rich who will be affected by this are a drop in the bucket (in terms of numbers) compared to everybody else.
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Lightning Bolt posted...

Won't somebody think of the rich!?

Won't somebody think of those spoiled brats who have had mommy and daddy pay their way through life? Now they're getting less of an inheritance! The horror!
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Claude_Frollo posted...

Lightning Bolt posted...

Won't somebody think of the rich!?

Won't somebody think of those spoiled brats who have had mommy and daddy pay their way through life? Now they're getting less of an inheritance! The horror!

Again, the people most affected aren't the rich, but instead working-class Americans. Pretty much every new tax is advertised as trying screw the rich but instead it hits the everybody else a lot harder because they haven't as much money to throw around in the first place. However, the myth of going after the rich is popular because it taps into innate envy and jealousy. "How dare they have that money! They couldn't possibly have done anything to earn it!"
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Zeus posted...

Lightning Bolt posted...

Won't somebody think of the rich!?

It's not even the rich, it's also countless working class Americans. The rich who will be affected by this are a drop in the bucket (in terms of numbers) compared to everybody else.

I thought estate taxes specifically were mostly on the rich. Could be misremembering.
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Zeus posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Lightning Bolt posted...

Won't somebody think of the rich!?

Won't somebody think of those spoiled brats who have had mommy and daddy pay their way through life? Now they're getting less of an inheritance! The horror!

Again, the people most affected aren't the rich, but instead working-class Americans. Pretty much every new tax is advertised as trying screw the rich but instead it hits the everybody else a lot harder because they haven't as much money to throw around in the first place. However, the myth of going after the rich is popular because it taps into innate envy and jealousy. "How dare they have that money! They couldn't possibly have done anything to earn it!"

Most working-class Americans don't have a 5.5 million dollar estate.

And no, the children receiving the inheritance didn't do anything to get the money. They just had the good fortune of spawning from the genitalia of a wealthy person.
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I generally think any government process that discourages you from saving money is bad.
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The estate tax (also known as death tax) is a good system. It only taxes the extremely wealthy and isn't exactly prohibitively high. Rich children can afford to lose a portion of what their rich parents leave them. In exchange, the country has to take less tax from other sources.

Good system.

Also, I doubt even a single person here is affected by it. Zeus said he was. I don't believe that.

Claude_Frollo posted...

Zeus posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Lightning Bolt posted...

Won't somebody think of the rich!?

Won't somebody think of those spoiled brats who have had mommy and daddy pay their way through life? Now they're getting less of an inheritance! The horror!

Again, the people most affected aren't the rich, but instead working-class Americans. Pretty much every new tax is advertised as trying screw the rich but instead it hits the everybody else a lot harder because they haven't as much money to throw around in the first place. However, the myth of going after the rich is popular because it taps into innate envy and jealousy. "How dare they have that money! They couldn't possibly have done anything to earn it!"

Most working-class Americans don't have a 5.5 million dollar estate.

And no, the children receiving the inheritance didn't do anything to get the money. They just had the good fortune of spawning from the genitalia of a wealthy person.

I don't give a shit how many people are effected by it or who. It is a tax for dying. That is gross.

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?
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This isn't a thing anywhere in Canada. It doesn't make any sense why it would be a thing and I have no idea who would ever support it.
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faramir77 posted...

This isn't a thing anywhere in Canada. It doesn't make any sense why it would be a thing and I have no idea who would ever support it.

My understanding of it is that there sort of is, it is just paid by the estate as an earned income tax rather than the family inheriting the estate. So in canada you are actually taxed twice on it rather than it being treated as income and taxed to the family.
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It's unfortunately tricky. On the one hand double dipping on taxes is annoying as hell, on the other hand generational wealth is bad for society.

RoboXgp89 posted...

The money was already taxed
they're just going to tax it again when someone buys something with it
wake up people!!!

And depending on what you buy with it, they'll tax you again just for owning the thing that you spent that money on.
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They tax money every time it changes hands, tax property annually just for owning it, and we have a massive deficit

Nothing wrong with this picture
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Dikitain posted...

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?

My father does not have anywhere near five million dollars and if he did I'd understand the law and accept some of my inheritance being taken in tax. I'm not entitled to every last penny of money that I didn't even earn.

I guess it's possible I'd see it differently if I was due for millions in inheritance, but it'd be more out of greed than any rationale.
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Zeus posted...

The estate tax may be stupid given the absurd number of times that money has already been taxed, but how do you make up for the shortfall?

That's the biggest thing. Whatever gripes you may have with the concept, if it didn't exist, that tax revenue would still be needed, and other taxes would be raised or added to make up for it.
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Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?

My father does not have anywhere near five million dollars and if he did I'd understand the law and accept some of my inheritance being taken in tax. I'm not entitled to every last penny of money that I didn't even earn.

I guess it's possible I'd see it differently if I was due for millions in inheritance, but it'd be more out of greed than any rationale.

So you are fine with people being charged money for having a relative die?

You are a truly sick and selfish person.

edit: And I guess by your logic all millionaires should be thrown into concentration camps and gassed to death, since they obviously don't have emotions.
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Dikitain posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?

My father does not have anywhere near five million dollars and if he did I'd understand the law and accept some of my inheritance being taken in tax. I'm not entitled to every last penny of money that I didn't even earn.

I guess it's possible I'd see it differently if I was due for millions in inheritance, but it'd be more out of greed than any rationale.

So you are fine with people being charged money for having a relative die?

You are a truly sick and selfish person.

See, the constant use of this kind of misleading framing is one of the reasons I so fervently support it. The opposition has to resort to such shitty tactics because their arguments don't stand.
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Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?

My father does not have anywhere near five million dollars and if he did I'd understand the law and accept some of my inheritance being taken in tax. I'm not entitled to every last penny of money that I didn't even earn.

I guess it's possible I'd see it differently if I was due for millions in inheritance, but it'd be more out of greed than any rationale.

So you are fine with people being charged money for having a relative die?

You are a truly sick and selfish person.

See, the constant use of this kind of misleading framing is one of the reasons I so fervently support it. The opposition has to resort to such shitty tactics because their arguments don't stand.

How else is there a way to explain it? You are forcing people to pay money because someone they cared about died. Doesn't matter if that person has 1 dollar or 1 trillion, that is exactly what an estate tax is.
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Dikitain posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?

My father does not have anywhere near five million dollars and if he did I'd understand the law and accept some of my inheritance being taken in tax. I'm not entitled to every last penny of money that I didn't even earn.

I guess it's possible I'd see it differently if I was due for millions in inheritance, but it'd be more out of greed than any rationale.

So you are fine with people being charged money for having a relative die?

You are a truly sick and selfish person.

See, the constant use of this kind of misleading framing is one of the reasons I so fervently support it. The opposition has to resort to such shitty tactics because their arguments don't stand.

How else is there a way to explain it? You are forcing people to pay money because someone they cared about died. Doesn't matter if that person has 1 dollar or 1 trillion, that is exactly what an estate tax is.

No it isn't. The way you're talking is misleading. It paints the picture that these people are going to have whatever money they've earned that's sitting in their bank accounts taken from them because a relative happened to die. That's not the case. Some of the money from the FIVE MILLION dollar inheritance that they will eventually receive is being taken. You act like they money they actually worked for is being taken. It's not.

And you think I'm sick and selfish? Because I could certainly frame being so adamant about profiting every last cent off of your loved one's death is the sick and selfish thing. People who eagerly wait for their rich relatives die to be handed their entire fortune for nothing is what's sick and selfish.
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Claude_Frollo posted...

You act like they money they actually worked for is being taken

someone did work for that money though. estate taxes are fucked because its a literal penalty for living a successful life and trying to pass that on to those who are important to you.

as was earlier said in this topic, it only affects the middle class who dont have the means to find a way around the tax. not to mention the government is crazy inefficient with the money. the only ppl who support estate tax are jealous poor ppl lol

Dikitain posted...

So you are fine with people being charged money for having a relative die?

But they aren't being charged money for having a relative die. If they were charged money, then they'd have less money after the relative died than before (which funeral expenses actually do, but that's another discussion). Instead, they're being paid money for having a relative die. Having the estate taxed just means they get paid less than they would if not for the tax.
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I'm a fan of the concept, no idea how well the current laws support that.
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Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

Claude_Frollo posted...

Dikitain posted...

When your father dies, would you like someone to come up to you and say "Pay me money, your father died"?

My father does not have anywhere near five million dollars and if he did I'd understand the law and accept some of my inheritance being taken in tax. I'm not entitled to every last penny of money that I didn't even earn.

I guess it's possible I'd see it differently if I was due for millions in inheritance, but it'd be more out of greed than any rationale.

So you are fine with people being charged money for having a relative die?

You are a truly sick and selfish person.

See, the constant use of this kind of misleading framing is one of the reasons I so fervently support it. The opposition has to resort to such shitty tactics because their arguments don't stand.

How else is there a way to explain it? You are forcing people to pay money because someone they cared about died. Doesn't matter if that person has 1 dollar or 1 trillion, that is exactly what an estate tax is.

No it isn't. The way you're talking is misleading. It paints the picture that these people are going to have whatever money they've earned that's sitting in their bank accounts taken from them because a relative happened to die. That's not the case. Some of the money from the FIVE MILLION dollar inheritance that they will eventually receive is being taken. You act like they money they actually worked for is being taken. It's not.

And you think I'm sick and selfish? Because I could certainly frame being so adamant about profiting every last cent off of your loved one's death is the sick and selfish thing. People who eagerly wait for their rich relatives die to be handed their entire fortune for nothing is what's sick and selfish.

Again, stop saying how much money it is because that is entirely irrelevant. The point is that they are being forced to pay money because someone died. You are literally steeling from someone who is suffering from the death of a loved one.

And it is funny that you mention profiting off the death of a loved one when you want the government to do that exact thing. "Hey, congratulations that you happened to have someone die while they lived inside your borders, TAKE THEIR MONEY!!!"

And I haven't even begun to argue the fact that this tax literally only accounts for 1/1000 of the national revenue per year, or that there are so many loopholes that they don't even get money from anyone smart enough to hire a good accountant to handle the assets of the estate (Like the Walton's) costing them upwards of 5 billion per year in lost revenue (which is the same amount that they make from it).
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Ditkain you're making an emotional appeal that can be stretched a lot further. Why does this man have to pay property taxes on the house he inherited from his parents?? They just died!! He only has it because they died and he's in grieving, stop coming after his property taxes!

It's income that's taxed, end of story.
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Unfernal_Server posted...

Ditkain you're making an emotional appeal that can be stretched a lot further. Why does this man have to pay property taxes on the house he inherited from his parents?? They just died!! He only has it because they died and he's in grieving, stop coming after his property taxes!

It's income that's taxed, end of story.

Property taxes at least make sense on the surface though, it is property they own (granted through terrible circumstances) so they have to pay money for it. Plus that property exists within the borders of a town or municipality so of course you have to pay taxes on it. If that property didn't exist on this plane of existence, you wouldn't need to pay taxes on it.

Estate tax is literally "Someone died now pay us money!" The whole philosophy behind that is disgusting. At least with a funeral you are paying for services and there is no one forcing you to pay it, you don't NEED a funeral. With this it is taking advantage of someone while they are in morning for personal gain.
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