Poll of the Day > every other month we get some notice our weeds are too long in the front

(+) Yeah! (+)

Muffinz0rz posted...

This is America.

you keep saying this like this means anything

do you think america is some lawless wasteland?

Muffinz0rz posted...

Why does it exist? If the house itself is mine, I should be allowed to express myself with it however I please within reason.

because people seem to have liked them and they grew

probably because people like you would let their homes go to shit just because "this is america"
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Is muffinz a teenager or an adult that is this clueless?

SkynyrdRocker posted...

Is muffinz a teenager or an adult that is this clueless?

Probably just a troll.
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You could always pour salt water on your gravel. Basically makes it so nothing can grow.
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Jen0125 posted...

do you think america is some lawless wasteland?

Course not. But it kinda goes against the whole "land of the free" thing when you start forcing me into gardening or pay up. It's hard to take the HOA seriously anyways since they can require you to have cable.

Jen0125 posted...

probably because people like you would let their homes go to shit just because "this is america"

Yeah, because not wanting to garden means I'm letting my entire house go to shit. Makes sense.

J_Dawg983 posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

Is muffinz a teenager or an adult that is this clueless?

Probably just a troll.

Could be all 3. Nobody knows!
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Muffinz0rz posted...

Course not. But it kinda goes against the whole "land of the free" thing when you start forcing me into gardening or pay up. It's hard to take the HOA seriously anyways since they can require you to have cable.

welcome to america where you get fees and fines for everything

are you even an adult yet?
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Muffinz0rz posted...

It's hard to take democracy seriously

Bonafide millennial.
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Yes, it's the home of the free, you're free to move somewhere else
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Veedrock- posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

It's hard to take democracy seriously

Bonafide millennial.

most millennials are already out there owning and renting houses, so that's doubtful. probably a gen z-er, if we're going to stereotype.
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jamieyello3 posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

In northern areas you also get watched for whether or not you shovel snow. If your walks are not shoveled within 48 hours of the end of a snowfall (this varies based on your area) you can be fined. Oh, and the postal delivery people will refuse to deliver if your walks/steps are obstructed with snow or may be icy.

I think it's so dumb how people shovel before it's stopped snowing.

I had really unreasonable parents that would have us shovel every 3 hours, sometimes right after it started sticking. Shovel the driveway, what do I care, just don't slack off. Snow on driveway = shovel

If it's going to be snowing for a while, I shovel before the snow stops. Better to shovel 6" twice than to shovel 1' once. Also, invariably someone will leave the driveway before it stops, making nice, packed tire tracks to shovel.
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Jen0125 posted...

welcome to america where you get fees and fines for everything

Just giving my opinion brah. I think it's dumb and I don't know why the rest of America is okay with being nickeled and dimed to death.

Jen0125 posted...

are you even an adult yet?

Up to you. You can see my account's creation page, which was in 2006. So, ~10 years ago, with a minimum age of 13, I would have to be at least 23 at this point. Of course, it's certainly possible I wasn't 13! But I'd never tell of any rulebreaking ;)

Veedrock- posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

It's hard to take democracy seriously

Bonafide millennial.

Not sure why it's a "millennial" characteristic to question why I have to pay random-ass things with what little money most of us millennials have. But hey, if "because that's the way things are" is fine with you, then keep pissing your money away.

MrMelodramatic posted...

most millennials are already out there owning and renting houses, so that's doubtful. probably a gen z-er, if we're going to stereotype.

Google "millennial homeowner rates" and educate yourself on why "most millennials" are, in fact, NOT homeowners (Renting is a different situation - if I'm renting a room from some homeowners, I'm not going to be the one responsible for HOA fees or weed-trimming fees or whatever).
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I'm with muffin on this one.

It's pretty fuckin' dumb that because jackasses buying homes don't want to buy a home nearby a person who doesn't mow their lawn every other week so we have to make actual fucking laws against it.

That's stupid.

That's why I'm looking at property that isn't the middle of the bumfuck suburbs with an HOA. I'm getting me some land so I can murder my prostitutes in peace without having to deal with noise complaints and nosy neighbors.
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Smarkil posted...

I'm with muffin on this one.

It's pretty fuckin' dumb that because jackasses buying homes don't want to buy a home nearby a person who doesn't mow their lawn every other week so we have to make actual fucking laws against it.

That's stupid.

That's why I'm looking at property that isn't the middle of the bumfuck suburbs with an HOA. I'm getting me some land so I can murder my prostitutes in peace without having to deal with noise complaints and nosy neighbors.

If you don't want to mow a lawn don't have a lawn
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Smarkil posted...

It's pretty fuckin' dumb that because jackasses buying homes don't want to buy a home nearby a person who doesn't mow their lawn

It makes sense though. Typically you don't want to live in a neighborhood full of eyesores. You want to know that your neighbors care about maintaining their property and the values of said properties. It's a huge problem where I live, landlords rent out their places and let them go to shit because all they care about is collecting a rent check, not about keeping things nice. Then when their tenants move, they clean it up just enough to get a new set of tenants in there.
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Smarkil posted...

I'm with muffin on this one.

It's pretty fuckin' dumb that because jackasses buying homes don't want to buy a home nearby a person who doesn't mow their lawn every other week so we have to make actual fucking laws against it.

That's stupid.

That's why I'm looking at property that isn't the middle of the bumfuck suburbs with an HOA. I'm getting me some land so I can murder my prostitutes in peace without having to deal with noise complaints and nosy neighbors.

I actually don't have an HOA in my neighborhood. This is the city doing it. So even if you don't have an HOA your city may still fine you.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

DarkwingDidi posted...

things like that get checked?by who?

Most towns actually have a housing department that checks homes and yards, and neighbors can always call in and complain.

On one level it's a property value issue (someone with garbage strewn across their yard or 5ft high weeds bring down the value on the entire area just the same as someone whose house has peeling paint or boarded over windows), but it can also be considered a health issue - ie, high weeds can breed insects or encourage other vermin. You can also theoretically get hassled for having "standing water" in your yard (buckets, garbage cans, or other lids that can collect stagnant water), because mosquitoes and other insects can lay eggs in the water.

This is actually a huge deal for me locally, because of both West Nile and Lyme's Disease being local issues. People get paranoid about unkempt yards even above and beyond the aesthetic issues. If I go more than 2 weeks or so without mowing during the summer people start getting a bit twitchy.

What about laws that don't allow you to park on the grass even though it's your property?

What about them?
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Doctor Foxx posted...

If you don't want to mow a lawn don't have a lawn

That'd be great, but some places won't even allow that. I know my cousin's HOA won't allow him to landscape his yard into...whatever you call it a planter box thing.

Rasmoh posted...

It makes sense though. Typically you don't want to live in a neighborhood full of eyesores. You want to know that your neighbors care about maintaining their property and the values of said properties. It's a huge problem where I live, landlords rent out their places and let them go to shit because all they care about is collecting a rent check, not about keeping things nice. Then when their tenants move, they clean it up just enough to get a new set of tenants in there.

Why does the eyesore matter to you though? Does it make any difference in the end?

As far as I'm concerned, the eyesore only matters insofar as it generates people less money. It feels like this chicken and the egg situation where people refuse to buy homes near eyesores because they think they won't be able to resell it. So the ones who are trying to resell it don't get buyers.

Hell, if anything I would think you would want an eyesore nearby so people can see how much better your house looks in comparison. It's like having an ugly friend around so you look better by proxy.

At the end of the day, someone else's property should not matter in relation to your own. Yes, I understand this is not the reality, but I'm talking about the principle of it.
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I'm trying to figure what's so hard to understand about people who want to live in a neighborhood with people who have some pride in their home's appearance. That's one of the reasons why HOAs exist, so people can live in neighborhoods that are free of eyesores.
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Jen0125 posted...

What about them?

Smarkil posted...

That'd be great, but some places won't even allow that. I know my cousin's HOA won't allow him to landscape his yard into...whatever you call it a planter box thing.

This basically.
It's kind of weird how large families aren't allowed to have multiple vehicles if they have a lawn...
And they can't do anything to change that unless they move somewhere else...

Smarkil posted...

At the end of the day, someone else's property should not matter in relation to your own.

Except that, if you live in close proximity, someone else's property DOES have an effect on your own, and thus, you're not living in a completely closed system.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Smarkil posted...

At the end of the day, someone else's property should not matter in relation to your own.

Except that, if you live in close proximity, someone else's property DOES have an effect on your own, and thus, you're not living in a completely closed system.

If my weeds don't spill over onto your property, it doesn't affect you.

https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/2017/03/28/hoa-fees-rise/

You could be paying as much as $500+ a month for HOA fees (granted, the highest is in NY, and living there would be terrible), but still. The average in 2015 was $331 a month. How fucked is that
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Muffinz0rz posted...

If my weeds don't spill over onto your property, it doesn't affect you.

lrn 2 property value. A house that looks shitty on the outside due to poor upkeep can affect the neighboring properties.

This occurs even in neighborhoods without HOAs. As Jen stated, cities can have code enforcement statutes about these things such as lawn upkeep and curbside garbage.
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RCtheWSBC posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

If my weeds don't spill over onto your property, it doesn't affect you.

lrn 2 property value. A house that looks shitty on the outside due to poor upkeep can affect the neighboring properties.

This occurs even in neighborhoods without HOAs. As Jen stated, cities can have code enforcement statutes about these things such as lawn upkeep and curbside garbage.

We've already been through the property value bit. Nobody here wants to repeat themselves.
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I'll repeat myself as much as I want, trick
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RCtheWSBC posted...

I'll repeat myself as much as I want, trick

Lol

I meant people who have already discussed the property value conversation as it pertains to this particular topic don't want to explain it again
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

This is actually a huge deal for me locally, because of both West Nile and Lyme's Disease being local issues.

Yeah,that does make sense,haven't thought about such things,since they aren't a big issue where I live.

also
Jen0125 posted...

we get our yard sprayed for bugs so we aren't doing anything to contribute to bugs!

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Pictures of front yard
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Smarkil posted...

At the end of the day, someone else's property should not matter in relation to your own.

Except that, if you live in close proximity, someone else's property DOES have an effect on your own, and thus, you're not living in a completely closed system.

PO, you didn't even read what I said. I understand the reality of the situation. I'm arguing against the stupidity of society deciding that because a neighbors house has grass that's too long, you refuse to pay as much for a house. That's just idiotic.

Also, I'd like to point out, as much as I hate HOA's I can at least understand them and am more or less fine with them. I would never want a property with an HOA, but they generally provide some other measure of value through snow removal and shit.

But once the city/state gets involved, that's when I get pissed off.
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It is kind of funny because I live in an area notorious for over-bureaucracy (You actually need a permit to replace a toilet in your own home), however we don't have a lot of laws on yard maintenance. As long as your grass isn't so tall that it goes to seed, no one really cares how often you mow your yard, or how many weeds are in your front landscaping.

We have two abandoned homes in our neighborhood, and other then having the town mow the lawn once a month there really isn't anything being done with them, and as far as I know they haven't impacted my property value at all.
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Smarkil posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Smarkil posted...

At the end of the day, someone else's property should not matter in relation to your own.

Except that, if you live in close proximity, someone else's property DOES have an effect on your own, and thus, you're not living in a completely closed system.

PO, you didn't even read what I said. I understand the reality of the situation. I'm arguing against the stupidity of society deciding that because a neighbors house has grass that's too long, you refuse to pay as much for a house. That's just idiotic.

If I see this really nice house in the middle of a slum, there is no way I am paying full price for it. That is just a hard truth, there is no stupidity in that at all. When I buy a house I am not going to just build a 20 foot wall around my property and shut myself off from the rest of the neighborhood. I want to make my house look good, and I expect my neighbors to do the same.

Yes, people can go overboard with it, but there is no stupidity in taking pride in how your neighborhood looks.
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Dikitain posted...

Smarkil posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Smarkil posted...

At the end of the day, someone else's property should not matter in relation to your own.

Except that, if you live in close proximity, someone else's property DOES have an effect on your own, and thus, you're not living in a completely closed system.

PO, you didn't even read what I said. I understand the reality of the situation. I'm arguing against the stupidity of society deciding that because a neighbors house has grass that's too long, you refuse to pay as much for a house. That's just idiotic.

If I see this really nice house in the middle of a slum, there is no way I am paying full price for it. That is just a hard truth, there is no stupidity in that at all. When I buy a house I am not going to just build a 20 foot wall around my property and shut myself off from the rest of the neighborhood. I want to make my house look good, and I expect my neighbors to do the same.

Yes, people can go overboard with it, but there is no stupidity in taking pride in how your neighborhood looks.

I agree
You have to see their front yards, it should be presentable.
If you dont want to take care of a yard, move into a condo that does it for you or hire a gardener
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Smarkil posted...

I'm arguing against the stupidity of society deciding that because a neighbors house has grass that's too long, you refuse to pay as much for a house. That's just idiotic.

It's not though. It only makes sense for people to prefer things that are well taken care of. A house is an investment and it's only logical to want your investment to get the best returns, which is more likely when the people around you care for their investments in the same way.
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Muffinz0rz posted...

If my weeds don't spill over onto your property, it doesn't affect you.

Except it does, it multiple ways. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't magically make it untrue.

And even if it didn't, the fact remains that the laws still exist that say it does, so you're still blatantly wrong no matter how hard you try to wish yourself into a magical world of ponies and rainbows.



Muffinz0rz posted...

We've already been through the property value bit. Nobody here wants to repeat themselves.

But it still remains true, no matter how badly you want to dismiss it out of hand. Like it or not, it DOES affect property value. Even in cases where a HOA isn't even remotely part of the equation.

Which is why she brought it up again - you're basically hand-waving away one of the major points that hugely undercuts everything you're saying. You can't really say "Yeah, well people brought that up but we're not going to talk about it anymore," because saying that doesn't actually stop it being a thing, nor does it stop it being a thing that pretty much contradicts your entire argument.



Smarkil posted...

PO, you didn't even read what I said. I understand the reality of the situation. I'm arguing against the stupidity of society deciding that because a neighbors house has grass that's too long, you refuse to pay as much for a house.

I actually did. Which is why I didn't say "You're right that things shouldn't be that way, but that's the way things are."

What I actually said was "If you live in close proximity, someone else's property DOES have an effect on your own, and thus, you're not living in a completely closed system.". Because, like it or not, it abso-fucking-lutely does. And I'm not just talking about the nebulous "Oh, your shitty yard makes mine look bad and thus can potentially cost me money" (though that's also absolutely a thing). I'm also talking about - as I pointed out earlier - that the more unkempt your yard is, the more it becomes a potential health hazard. Higher weeds increases insect populations, from mosquitoes to ticks to even potentially termites. It can increase vermin population, a la mice, rats, or other things which can be a problem entirely on their own, or additionally due to the increased risk of rabies or other diseases.

A friend of mine is actually currently in the process of calling the police on one of his neighbors, because they essentially abandoned their house entirely due to an impending eviction, leaving weeds that are multiple feet high, garbage in their yard that is years old, multiple sources of standing water, and other issues that are absolutely creating potential health hazards for my friend's young children. He doesn't really care that it "looks bad" or that it's potentially lowering his property value, he's worried because it's a major problem that absolutely effects him and his family directly.

And he's absolutely right to do so.


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And as for WHY a shitty yard tends to pull down property values? It's not just because "Oh, it looks bad!"

Part of it is because of the things I've already mentioned, like increased risk of insect and vermin problems. But part of it is also because blatant neglect of someone's yard (or exterior of their house, or whatever) can also be a warning sign of neglect in other respects - someone who doesn't mow their lawn may also be neglecting their home in other ways. Ways which could be creating unseen problems ranging from dead trees in their yard crashing into your house or property doing damage (something both my aforementioned friend AND myself have had to deal with in the past), termites, cockroaches, or vermin nesting in one home potentially finding their way into another home, massive water damage or basement flooding creating heavy mold infestation that can potentially cause problems to more than just a single homeowner, or even outright collapse or fire that can damage nearby houses - and so on.

Is it 100% fair to assume that someone's unkempt yard means they're scum in every facet of their life? Absolutely not. But because it CAN mean that, there will always be a bias against it in terms of property value assessment. Even if only by a small percentage, living next to a dump DOES increase your chances of having problems, and thus, decreases the value of your own home (it also discourages other people from wanting to buy your home, because they don't want to wind up living next to that asshole either!).

Basically, once you actually OWN a home, you tend to start realizing exactly WHY there tend to be rules for maintaining your yard, and start understanding a hell of a lot better why those rules aren't arbitrary bullshit but safeguards that probably SHOULD exist.

And keep in mind, I'm saying this as someone who hates to mow their lawn (mainly because I have low-grade grass allergies and I'm too cheap to hire someone to do it for me, because I have a big yard). At any given time, I usually AM the person on my street whose weeds are a bit too high. At least a couple times in the past, I HAVE gotten warnings to deal with the problem before getting fined. And at no point in that process did I ever go "GODDAMNED GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO LEAVE ME ALONE!" I understand exactly why they have a problem with this specific issue.


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Dikitain posted...

It is kind of funny because I live in an area notorious for over-bureaucracy (You actually need a permit to replace a toilet in your own home)

To be fair, the underlying reason for that is supposed to be to discourage you from doing it yourself, to reduce the risk that you screw up and cause massive water damage to your house.

In the same vein, in my town you're technically supposed to pay $40 for a permit to install an air conditioner in your window. And part of that is certainly the municipal government enjoying being able to skim money off the top, but the logic behind it is supposed to prevent completely inept people from dropping an air conditioner on someone else's head if they live somewhere with a lot of through traffic.

Granted, it's usually more about money at this point than whatever motivation originally inspired it (most ordinances involving fines usually are), but the same could be said for most traffic laws at this point, too. But that also doesn't mean we should abolish every traffic law.



Dikitain posted...

however we don't have a lot of laws on yard maintenance. As long as your grass isn't so tall that it goes to seed, no one really cares how often you mow your yard, or how many weeds are in your front landscaping.

A lot of this depends on what sort of area you live in. Usually places where houses or yards are spread further apart tend to be a bit more lax on that sort of ordinance, but the closer houses start to be together, the more it will start to become an issue.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Except it does, it multiple ways. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't magically make it untrue.

I already addressed the whole vermin problem and said that was a legitimate concern.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

And even if it didn't, the fact remains that the laws still exist that say it does, so you're still blatantly wrong no matter how hard you try to wish yourself into a magical world of ponies and rainbows.

Unnecessary insult. Plus I'm giving an opinion. I never said the laws didn't exist. Stop being rude.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But it still remains true, no matter how badly you want to dismiss it out of hand. Like it or not, it DOES affect property value. Even in cases where a HOA isn't even remotely part of the equation.

Which is why she brought it up again - you're basically hand-waving away one of the major points that hugely undercuts everything you're saying. You can't really say "Yeah, well people brought that up but we're not going to talk about it anymore," because saying that doesn't actually stop it being a thing, nor does it stop it being a thing that pretty much contradicts your entire argument.

I'm not dismissing it. I'm saying it was covered. The points were given earlier in the topic.
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