Board 8 > A Feast For Crows Mafia: Topic 13 - Most Have Been Forgotten.

(+) Yeah! (+)

What is dead may never die.
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OH MY GOD

I can't even.
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Welp. So Puns obviously plays well, I was sure it was MI with Red. What was the reason Puns ended up being considered certain Town? because he called out all his scummates early on?
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PUNS' THEME SONG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_JF8oSxXtM

BOW DOWN TO THE SCUM MVP TURBOPUNS, MONGRELS.

Boy did I have a fun time with you Leo. Telling me a scum team I am on was 'blindly' panicking. NOPE. Never.

We built our megazord king from all of our efforts and watched him go.

A LESSON CHRIS LEARNED FROM OTHER SITES: you don't always need to be the mvp to win your team the game.
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A couple of things:
1) When I sent out roles, I actually thought scum might be overpowered >_>. Guaranteed backup roleblocker is tough, and I almost made it one use but I was afraid that if they didn't figure out doctor was hiding in a double voter they could reach a frustrating situation where either the cop or recruiter was going crazy and they had no way to stop it. I kept it as infinite use, but it might have been better served as maybe a two-shot. Didn't wind up mattering!
2) There was no true secondary scanning left after the cop died. Death was half useful, but considering ninja cop is so strong with a scum tracker (plus the potential backup), I didn't want multiple ways for scum to get screwed over on a scan. Thief was more of a "town power identifier" than anything, although I threw in a couple of vanillas with vague "they have swords" things so that it didn't become too obvious scum/nillas all returned with nothing. Randyll Tarly was swapped out for Aemon as vanillas from my original role list specifically because of this. A lot of my vanillas had good reasons to not have anything (Osney is in prison, Arya gave it all up, Samwell is out at sea, so was Aemon) but I was afraid that might make it TOO obvious if a vanilla was telling the truth and I didn't want that meta'D.
3) I wanted either Sam/Randyll or Sam/Aemon as vanilla pairs because last game a couple of people went "so and so must be scum because Suprak wouldn't pick two so related like this with so many to choose from!" Nyah, I would, and I have people who said that last game. It was a dumb argument then and I was kinda hoping someone would fall for it this time but alas I was wrong.
4) I know some people (mostly scum) were upset about Leo's role, but he was lying to you basically with everything he said. He was sort of a delayed jack who could ONLY get the powers if the corresponding town power died AND he successfully recruited them AND he used the power the following day, neither step being roleblocked or else it would fail. Oh, and scum had a backup roleblocker just in case. And then Leo just went around picking up faces like "hey don't mind me I'm just here for the faces". I was 100% sure what would happen was he would wind up claiming and be trapped in roleblock hell the rest of the game (or shot), but scum either believed he was fully bulletproof or totally lying, never figuring out what was going on until too late. Best case scenario this is what Leo has:

Cop scan
BP vest
Doc save
Thief (partially useless, particularly by end game)
bodyguard (no way was he using this)
Vig shot (only useful if vig didn't use it first because he couldn't use any abilities that were already gone)

That's a very fine JOAT (for the first three alone - second three are all kind of useless) but not broken considering all the work he has to do to get them.

5) Scum had a "body removal" that allowed them to perform a kill and prevent any further night actions from being taken on the body (not a full janitor - just to counter Leo's role). It was more meant to show there was a role that could work on the dead in this game, and once Leo claimed, MI immediately deduced that he had to be multi-use because why else have the power I gave him if it was only a one shot? So MI was (rightfully) afraid Leo was going to recruit Stan and kill Shad the next day. Then they decided not to do anything to Leo and wound up getting Shad murdered the next day. I am still not sure why. I think Chris was assuming it wouldn't matter because they just needed one more mislynch so who cares, but that would up not being true because of Jeff.
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Sceptilesolar posted...

Welp. So Puns obviously plays well, I was sure it was MI with Red. What was the reason Puns ended up being considered certain Town? because he called out all his scummates early on?

Scum wanted their blocker to die N1, mostly. I should have been more cautious when he wanted Nana over MI so badly, but I was not.
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So, again, lets look over TOWN power:
We had 5 scum/5 vanilla/7 power. I feel this is fairly standard. I wanted to make one of the vanillas a secret functional vanilla (backup bus driver or "king" where the princess couldn't die as long as they were alive but I was afraid that would get them soft confirmed due to "oh, typical Suprak shenanigans" so I left it.

For the power I would break them down into:
3 STRONG
3 Medium
1 Weak

For strong powers you have:
Ninja Cop - I thought this role was cool for a couple of reasons. I just liked the interplay between Scum Tracker and Town Ninja (Power Role). It was also Town's only real scanning role, so I thought the extra layer of protection would help and prevent him from getting caught in a scan before he had something worthwhile to reveal. Cop also could get dead to rights scans on 4/5 of the scum team. Plus, he had an easy way to just claim vanilla based on the flavor I gave him. Doran wasn't an obvious cop, so a vanilla fake claim would've been pretty excellent. Town's best role imo.

Double-Voting Protector - All time double voter, all time doctor, 2 use day power of making your target unlynchable. I was really curious how this would play out. My goal here (between this and the mason recruiter) was to reward town for playing sneaky and maybe not just claim confirmable to be lazy. I've always disliked roles that exist solely to confirm the player, so the two I put in this game came with a cost.
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If scum had blocked and killed Death in the same night, I would have doc saved him :(
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Leo3L posted...

If scum had blocked and killed Death in the same night, I would have doc saved him :(

DIdn't need to because of their body removal!

FFD was trying to figure out what the other power on the jack was AND what they had to counter you. That was it. (More on that shortly)
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Also Scum Chris night 1

Kill Doctor
Kill Cop
Blind Block the Flavor Cop
Blind Track the BG.

Puns is my king, but my night 1 actions fucked town.
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For the record, if I had to do it all over again, I would still choose getting lynched D1.

I did far better work as a voice in the background and helped keep Leo alive much longer than he would have.

I just missed completely the idea that scum would be okay if their blocker had been lynched D1 because it literally would not have mattered, which was my bad.

Fun times though.
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Yeah, you completely crushed the early game in general, Chris
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I'll offer an apology for the hammer on my alt. I was under the impression that it had my name in the sig and I was proven wrong. I haven't used that alt since like 5 years ago so 'woops'.
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FFDragon posted...

For the record, if I had to do it all over again, I would still choose getting lynched D1.

I did far better work as a voice in the background and helped keep Leo alive much longer than he would have.

I just missed completely the idea that scum would be okay if their blocker had been lynched D1 because it literally would not have mattered, which was my bad.

Fun times though.

I don't think getting lynched D1 as town is something to aspire to, personally.
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(Checking Scare's role PM it was indeed a one time use "unlynchable". I changed it when sending out role PMs but same idea.)

Scum hates confirmable roles. I know I do. Even with power out there, a lot of time scum will just try to control them via roleblockling and kill the confirmables because no one wants confirmed town around. So what if you tack them onto a power role they will want to protect? It is possible scum ignores them and goes hunting for power elsewhere (which is why I gave scum the backup roleblocker - I didn't want town power sneaking by late and then scum having no way to counter it). OR (and what happens here), they blow their load too quickly to confirm themselves and scum shoots them to get rid of the confirmable. Lolo actually mentioned to me when I sent out the role "uh isn't this just going to get the doctor killed earlier" and I was like "nah they probably won't use it right away!" Then they did. And died. I don't think Scare's move was wrong btw so this isn't meant as a criticism (<3 you Scare). There always was the chance scum ignores the double voter because "zzz double voter we'll get him later" to go power hunting which is maybe what he was banking on. Really strong though overall.

Dead Mason Recruiting Limited Backup - Oh man, did this role end up screwing scum over. It shouldn't have, but it totally did. It was the perfect combination of crazy bad luck for scum and good play from Leo/the corpses. Again, at its strongest it was sort of a delayed jack that could talk to dead people. It's best powers were quite good (cop scan, bp vest, doc save), but relied on them not getting roleblocked either recruiting the person or using the action. Now, talking to dead people itself is incredibly strong (because I mean scum usually kills the people they DON'T want talking anymore) so I wanted to make sure there were plenty of counters to this. So scum had the one use body removal that takes a player out (it actually removes them from the game and makes them a sort of paranoid roleblocker at night so Leo would've gotten a "you have been roleblocked" message) and a full time roleblocker WITH a backup roleblocker just in case something weird happened. I wasn't counting on Leo getting a BP vest night 1 and tricking the entire scum team into thinking he was a perma-BP by timing putting on the vest perfectly, but what I was concerned about was the doctor sneaking late into the game and protecting Leo so Leo would up recruiting like half the game. I didn't want the scum team going up against like half the game in one player unless they messed up somehow...and then he wound up recruiting half the game because scum let him be (for good reasons from their perspective mind you). They used it on death instead, which was also CRAZY bad luck on their part because death was a very weak scanner that was supposed to be "mislynchable". It was a non-standard role so I don't blame scum for being caught off guard, and they had the worst luck possible with it, but a lot of the strength here would've been negated if they had blocked him at any point.
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Oh I do. I had fun!
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Yeah I was a little sad I got vigged but I was HAVING A LOT OF FUN and oh god someone tell me again red is the anti Chris because boy did I come into this game to prove a point there.

Also Leo at a certain point I didn't even care to test you again btw. Or to RB you for a long time. I was basically going 'challenge accepted' and <3
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FFDragon posted...

For the record, if I had to do it all over again, I would still choose getting lynched D1.

I did far better work as a voice in the background and helped keep Leo alive much longer than he would have.

I just missed completely the idea that scum would be okay if their blocker had been lynched D1 because it literally would not have mattered, which was my bad.

Fun times though.

I don't think any of us knew it wouldn't have mattered.

I went into the first topic blind without checking the Scum board so that I could set up more realistic suspicions. Puns was on my shortlist for Scum based on the first ~250 posts.

Also, he was very defensive to me and I was very defensive to him and it just created a lot of tension that wasn't fake, which ended up helping us win I guess.
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FFDragon posted...

For the record, if I had to do it all over again, I would still choose getting lynched D1.

I did far better work as a voice in the background and helped keep Leo alive much longer than he would have.

I just missed completely the idea that scum would be okay if their blocker had been lynched D1 because it literally would not have mattered, which was my bad.

Fun times though.

I checked their role PMs like six times day 1 (Han and Shad) because I panicked and thought I had accidentally kept in the text about the kingsmoot because I couldn't figure out why they wanted Puns dead so badly.

(more on this later, too!)
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Dead Mason Recruiting Limited Backup - Oh man, did this role end up screwing scum over.

I mean.
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I will be brutally honest.

Brutally.

I don't think Leo mattered much this game in a macro level.

Even his BP actually helped us a bit.
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Oh
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I posted my whole team immediately to start the game!

lol!
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bng_mmmk posted...

I posted my whole team immediately to start the game!

lol!

asshole
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Not trying to say Leo played bad but that BP? Didn't change the kill count. While he was parading in topic cackling I literally shrugged and said no big deal.
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(As a note for future games because this came up on the scum board when Puns was having a drunken panic attack, I would never allow two full time bulletproofs in the game without giving scum something crazy like a full time strongman or something - but I could see why they though that at the time. Again this is where Chris comes up HUGE by calming down his pals and telling them to just play though it. I think that coaching really helped)

These three were the "yeah, they aren't getting lynched roles". The rest though were fair game!

MID TIER ROLES:
Bulletproof - Always solid protection. Nothing confirmable though, and the thief wouldn't give anything on him. Could easily be a mislynch target.

Thief - Secondary scanning. He was built to be a weak scanner though, unable to catch anyone on the scum team. I didn't want scum getting hard caught by scans (it was still theoretically possible I suppose, if they claimed something like Cersei it might be weird that they didn't get anything from them but it wasn't 100% damning in any way). Still, they did get stuff from a good chunk of town. Some of it was hard confirming (i.e. the white clump of hair from Lady Stoneheart) and some of it was weak confirming (there were like three swords in the game - although you might be able to deduce that Brienne had Oathkeeper from the description). I wanted a scanner that could also possibly be a lynch option and not immediately confirmed because "oh they claimed scanning power". Scum got unlucky here in a way finding him night 1, because they (rightfully) kept him roleblocked and never realized he was extremely weak and not much of a threat to them directly. I purposely went light on scanning because town was stacked in protection and I wanted to balance that out, so one great scanner and one weak one (with a potential for a one shot backup for each) was all they got)

Vig - Killing roles are always fun! I originally had her as a target bomb, but I never like how bombs tend to immediately claim and then everyone goes "eh well just test. him at some point down the line". Vig *probably* isn't getting mislynched with no other town killing power in the game (and most people probably wouldn't assume scum has two extra killing shots in a game of 17). Could.be a good role for town (in this game it was!) but very often you see it misfiring and actually hurting town. Still, solid town power.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Not trying to say Leo played bad but that BP? Didn't change the kill count. While he was parading in topic cackling I literally shrugged and said no big deal.

I know it didn't matter that night, the intent was to sell that I was full time BP as best I could.
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I actually called Han on the saturday I was with FD to calm him down. It felt kind of cool actually, being a calm headed coach. It makes me feel like I have finally transitioned into a mentor role after all of these years. I am proud of all my beautiful scumbuddies.
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Yeah I told Leo to lean into it hard.

And boy did he lean.
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bng_mmmk posted...

I posted my whole team immediately to start the game!

lol!

Chris (and my) immediately reaction was "OH SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HELL".

But when Scare was doing his crazy thorough detective work on the mason board, he quoted this and said something along the lines of "you know scum isn't going to do that first post in the game". And Scare is probably one of the top three town players on the entire board.

So "what the hell do I know" I guess.

(Ironically I think your original idea of "I'll claim my role!" which Chris was ok with...might have been more likely to get you lynched as the last member of the team alive.
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I had calculated that nothing Leo could do with the various people could harm us. I had sown the seeds too well tbh
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Fuck Everyone Who shat on me at the start of Day 5 for saying that the Han lynch appeared planned and thus Puns was scum.

Granted it was scum and Leo, but whatever.

The math never lies. Getting 4 of the scum right in your first post is only a 1/78 shot. No way I convince Leo/Red to lynch Puns final day even if I had been able to convince myself.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I actually called Han on the saturday I was with FD to calm him down. It felt kind of cool actually, being a calm headed coach. It makes me feel like I have finally transitioned into a mentor role after all of these years. I am proud of all my beautiful scumbuddies.

It was seriously HUGE. Scum needed that. Even if things were 100% as bad as they thought (hint: they weren't) you gotta play through and I think your calming presence helped a ton even after Jeff was very mean and shot you for having fun.
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First thought: I am still actually kind of upset I got lynched.

Second thought: No no lynch when you know scum thinks you're bulletproof and you're at even numbers and why did you tell scum to shoot VI and ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Leo plz. You played brilliantly for half the game, but I do think you dropped the ball there.

Third thought: bussing the roleblocker. Bussing the roleblocker with completely garbage reasoning. Well played, I suppose.
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I kind of like the idea that FFD was Obi Wan force ghost mentoring me, and Chris was mentoring the scum.

I think the biggest mistake I made was scanning VI to get info on the D2 lynch. Pretty much anyone else would have been a better choice. And then I didn't get another unroleblocked night for the doc save. Though not roleblocking me this night would have been funny.
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1/78 feels too good for the odds, Nana. Are you sure that's right? Should be lower.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

1/78 feels too good for the odds, Nana. Are you sure that's right? Should be lower.

DOESN'T MATTER
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I actually called Han on the saturday I was with FD to calm him down. It felt kind of cool actually, being a calm headed coach. It makes me feel like I have finally transitioned into a mentor role after all of these years. I am proud of all my beautiful scumbuddies.

The game's not even what I was upset about.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Fuck Everyone Who shat on me at the start of Day 5 for saying that the Han lynch appeared planned and thus Puns was scum.

Granted it was scum and Leo, but whatever.

The math never lies. Getting 4 of the scum right in your first post is only a 1/78 shot. No way I convince Leo/Red to lynch Puns final day even if I had been able to convince myself.

I thought "oh hey Nana's crazy boring math routine is going to be Puns undoing". It was literally the one time the entire time I've played mafia that you cracking out the calculator would lead to a solid argument. Because the odds were 0.2%.

But then you come in and basically say "eh he's probably fine".

Also, if I was here the full time instead of having to catch up from my phone long after thing happened, there is a good chance you may have been mod killed! Gaming my decisions when I can barely post and keep up do to personal issues is bullshit and trying to use that in your defense because you don't have good arguments is even moreso, imho.
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Followed this whole game. I can't believe nobody even suspected puns after he went against the vote yesterday. Fun game to follow.
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Leo3L posted...

I kind of like the idea that FFD was Obi Wan force ghost mentoring me, and Chris was mentoring the scum.

I think the biggest mistake I made was scanning VI to get info on the D2 lynch. Pretty much anyone else would have been a better choice. And then I didn't get another unroleblocked night for the doc save. Though not roleblocking me this night would have been funny.

It was awesome seeing the last day play out as one scum (and dead buddies) vs. Leo (and dead buddies). I thoroughly enjoyed Scare's leg work (even if it lead to the wrong deduction in the end).
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One thing I will say about the vote yesterday is from a slanted perspective...no one should have suspected puns for yesterday. No one suspected Leo for KBM, after all. Sure in hindsight it is like "oh" but he did it on whimsy really, not because he had to.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

1/78 feels too good for the odds, Nana. Are you sure that's right? Should be lower.

No, it's right, I ran the math at work 5 times and had three of my engineering coworkers independently verify.

Total combinations of guesses of 5 of 16 is 16!/(11!5!) or 4368.
1 combo is 5 scum.
4 scum and 1 town is (5!/4!)*11!/10!, or 55

So (55+1)/4368
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WEAK ROLES:
Bodyguard - Basically just exists to die. Plus a classic scum fake claim. Unlikely to really do much damage by itself. Plus, there are really only three town power roles that would be beneficial to protect AND scum had two ways to avoid kills day 1. Easy mislynch target. Scum got extremely unlucky tracking him night 1 because they wound up thinking he was the doctor and shot him directly. Boko would've been a prime mislynch target so scum really got a tough draw there.

5 vanillas - I usually either go: vanillas = number of scum players or vanillas = number of town power. Wound up going with the number of scum players here because bp/bg/nerfed thief were all easy mislynch targets in addition to the vanillas.


On to scum roles!

Bulletproof RB - Fun fact! In my original 19 player game, scum had a rotating roleblocker and I really liked that. It was whoever blew on the Dragon's Horn for that night was the roleblocker, and as long as they weren't lynched the next day they could pass it to someone else (they couldn't do it two nights in a row though as it took a night to recover). Euron was a "rotating RBing enabler" and got to pick who would use it each night, and if he died, whoever had it was stuck with it for the rest of the game. It didn't really work in this set up though, so I went with a backup roleblocker instead. Originally I had Victarion as the backup, but I thought it would be more FUN to just have a kingsmoot if the RB died. Two reasons for this: I don't like scum roles that encourage scum to bus other scum ("hey we can kill the RB and then we get another RB who cares!") and plus a kingsmoot just worked well in terms of flavor and picking the next in line was probably better for scum anyway. I like these "SURPRISE" kinda roles ever since I first saw it in FFD Mafia (<3 FFD Mafia) with the "untargetable" tree stump. Just the right amount of chaos. I tried this in my last game (Fuck 2016 Mafia) where each of the scum roles had secret upgrade conditions. That wound up being a little much, but I thought this would be a nice way to work in the same sort of idea without devoting the entire set up to it.

I didn't spell it out directly, but did put small flavor hints in some of the PMs. I might've put too much because MI read into it a different way and immediately assumed there was a usurper. Then Shad, Han, and Chris all tried to kill puns right away and I legitimately had to check their role PMs to make sure I didn't accidentally mention it somewhere because I couldn't figure out why they were trying so hard to kills puns otherwise.
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odds of naming 5 people in a post and 4 of them being scum, assuming you're town in a 17-player game?
5c4 = 10 sets of scum * 11 innocents = 110 ways to do it.
16c5 = 4368 total sets of people you could've chosen.

Works out to 2.5%.

EDIT: 5c4 is 5 i'm dumb nana's right.
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so yeah it's going to be a long, long, long time until I play mafia again for a multitude of reasons.

this game satisfied every mafia want I've ever had pretty much. also I need to focus more on real life stuff and also girlfriend and also other things.

but hot DAMN.

hot DAMN.

hot DAYUM.
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I now want to be town with a town Nana and watch him lose his shit tbh
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dowolf posted...

odds of naming 5 people in a post and 4 of them being scum, assuming you're town in a 17-player game?
5c4 = 10 sets of scum * 11 innocents = 110 ways to do it.
16c5 = 4368 total sets of people you could've chosen.

Works out to 2.5%.

No, this is wrong
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the math doesn't matter

what matters is the charisma~
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Ah well. Lesson learned. Never rush MyLo even if you're sick of a game and just want it to end. I had a lot of key moments where I made the wrong choice. Today, obviously. Not just sticking with MI - not just for Scare's role, but because of his claimed actions and lynching KBM instead. And wasting the free surprise cop scan. And not unvoting when I saw Nana vote. I physically froze and refreshed a few times.

Ultimately, when Chris says I didn't matter this game I believe him. My confidence was just acting for scum.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/043acd45beef0833ed7e06d960d62797/tumblr_mg48njuhYN1rnm9t7o8_250.gif
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