Current Events > 6000 18-year olds will be fined by the Military for avoiding the assessment.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Socialdemocrats have brought back the long standing Swedish tradition of military service after high school that the Conservatives abolished while in power 2006-2014 and 6000 teenagers didn't fill out the mandatory military assessment online document this year and will now be fined a couple thousand kronor each.

I'm all for bringing back military service and it should never have been abolished in the first place. But the Conservatives did many bad things like cutting military spending in general, cutting social safety nets, introducing the most generous immigration laws this country has ever had and just generally being lapdogs of corporations.
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CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.
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BalanceLost posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.

Why should I be "obligated" to risk my life for the government?

thrashmetal14 posted...

BalanceLost posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.

Why should I be "obligated" to risk my life for the government?

This. FoH with "obligations". I don't owe anyone anything.
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thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Armed services is one of the last places you would want potentially apathetic members.
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BalanceLost posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.

We should do like Starship Troopers. You are not considered a citizen and can't have any political say unless you serve.
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Fuck forced service. No true modern country should practise it.

We live in times and countries where we aren't obliged to serve our government if we simply desire not to do so.
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The youngsters selected for service amongst all 18-year olds don't go out and fight in a war during their 12 months in the Military. But they learn military skills, survival skills, leadership, what to do during a disaster (natural or otherwise). It is a great asset to have and if you expect your government to save you during a crisis when you should be willing to help if you are able-bodied. A society where its members only think about themselves will grow sick and weak and be more easily broken apart. Today's world isn't like the world in the early 1900's but there are still many threats to the safety and freedom we value in the West.

Russia is an active serious threat to my country for example. Their rhethoric and military actions make it extremely clear that we need to be prepared to defend ourselves.
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Oh. I don't disagree it may be very good for people. Both from personal benefits and looking after the country from outside threats. But it still feels an uneasy step to me to be required of people.

People should be able to decline if they so choose.
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If they're not required to fight, I don't see those obligations as very much different from an obligation to attend school.
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Nah fuck that, if my country went to war with any neighboring country i'd bail the fuck out in any way possible.
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CE is filled with wimps nowadays huh
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Society is breeding a generation of individuals who are weak and self centered.

thrashmetal14 posted...

BalanceLost posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.

Why should I be "obligated" to risk my life for the government?

How is one year's worth of military training risking your life? No one's forcing anyone to join the military, only to take military training for a year. Kind of like how people are forced to go to school for 12 years or so. Only this time you get to learn different things, like driving heavy vehicles, disaster relief, etc. Heck, it's even learning basic things like cleaning regularly, following orders, and so on. So again, what about that is risking your life?
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People are confusing compulsory military training with compulsory military service. Sweden is a country designed to go full defense in the event of an invasion. You aren't forced to go and fight when you turn 18, your forced to go and learn how to survive in the event your country gets fucked.

Lot of ignorant people in this topic. Even if it was forced military service, it's fucking Sweden. What kind of garbage education do you have to have to not know that Sweden is a neutral country?
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omega cookie posted...

What kind of garbage education do you have to have to not know that Sweden is a neutral country?

Missing the "air quotes" around "neutral" there, buddy.
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Why have a military when they're giving away the country to Islamists anyways?
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scar the 1 posted...

How is one year's worth of military training risking your life? No one's forcing anyone to join the military, only to take military training for a year.

Oh, is it just this?

That isn't so bad then. I had imagined it as more preparing to actually join the army and could be called up after.
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BalanceLost posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.

How am I obligated to do something for the government just because I was born within your borders? I didn't choose that.
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Solid Sonic posted...

BalanceLost posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

CE is an American board we dont care

Also forcing people to join the military is fucking stupid and authoritarian as fuck

Sometimes you need a little authoritarianism to protect your country. People today are quick to bring up their rights but not their obligations.

How am I obligated to do something for the government just because I was born within your borders? I didn't choose that.

Then pay the fine and live with it. Honestly, as it is right now you only have to fill out the forms, go to a psyche test and if you're not suitable or if you flat out doesn't want to because of reasons, you don't have to. But if you refuse to even fill out the forms and send them, you're going to get fined. Simple as that.
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Funkydog posted...

scar the 1 posted...

How is one year's worth of military training risking your life? No one's forcing anyone to join the military, only to take military training for a year.

Oh, is it just this?

That isn't so bad then. I had imagined it as more preparing to actually join the army and could be called up after.

I don't know the exact wording, but I would assume there is some expectation of joining military efforts in case Sweden were invaded, or some similar super major disaster. Other than that, no, it's just training, and training that can be useful for a lot of things other than military uses.

Solid Sonic posted...

How am I obligated to do something for the government just because I was born within your borders? I didn't choose that.

If you were born in Sweden, you were most likely born at a hospital funded by tax-payers. You were most likely educated and had all your doctor's and dentist appointments either completely paid for or subsidized using tax-payer money. If you were in kindergarten or had a day-mom, it was subsidized by tax-payer money. During your education, you were also fed by tax-payer money once a day, five days a week. You get the picture. Why is it so outlandish to force people to take one year of military training when we already force them through 12 years of education?
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I guess I shouldn't be so quick to say that since taxes are basically the same thing but I do feel obligatory military service is stepping over the line.

Being in the military is a difficult life and being able to choose to do so demonstrates a certain commitment to accepting that life. Voluntary military service ensures only the individuals who firmly believe they are making the right choice are coming in (whether or not they decide after they begin if that's still true is another matter but at least that initial first step is coming from individuals who have drive).
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Solid Sonic posted...

I guess I shouldn't be so quick to say that since taxes are basically the same thing but I do feel obligatory military service is stepping over the line.

Being in the military is a difficult life and being able to choose to do so demonstrates a certain commitment to accepting that life. Voluntary military service ensures only the individuals who firmly believe they are making the right choice are coming in (whether or not they decide after they begin if that's still true is another matter but at least that initial first step is coming from individuals who have drive).

Again, we already force people through 12 years of education. This "military service" is another year of education. Even when every man in the country was drafted to this thing, it was perfectly fine to proclaim that you wouldn't touch a weapon, you'd just get assigned other things. And you learn a lot of useful things.
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scar the 1 posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

I guess I shouldn't be so quick to say that since taxes are basically the same thing but I do feel obligatory military service is stepping over the line.

Being in the military is a difficult life and being able to choose to do so demonstrates a certain commitment to accepting that life. Voluntary military service ensures only the individuals who firmly believe they are making the right choice are coming in (whether or not they decide after they begin if that's still true is another matter but at least that initial first step is coming from individuals who have drive).

Again, we already force people through 12 years of education. This "military service" is another year of education. Even when every man in the country was drafted to this thing, it was perfectly fine to proclaim that you wouldn't touch a weapon, you'd just get assigned other things. And you learn a lot of useful things.

This, and also. It's not military SERVICE, it's military training. It's not like you'll be forced to do shit overseas after the 12 months.
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scar the 1 posted...

omega cookie posted...

What kind of garbage education do you have to have to not know that Sweden is a neutral country?

Missing the "air quotes" around "neutral" there, buddy.

Meh. You're right, but I'm talking about in terms of fighting wars. I mean, you could counter with "Sweden supplied materials and weapons to the Nazis", but I'd counter with "It was that or get Belgium'd", and it would just turn into a pissing match over the debate of weather or not it's morally corrupt to aid a vastly superior enemy to protect the lives of your citizens.

My major point was, Sweden doesn't send people off to war. Besides, the main issue in this topic is getting these people to understand that it's training, not actually joining the military.
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omega cookie posted...

scar the 1 posted...

omega cookie posted...

What kind of garbage education do you have to have to not know that Sweden is a neutral country?

Missing the "air quotes" around "neutral" there, buddy.

Meh. You're right, but I'm talking about in terms of fighting wars. I mean, you could counter with "Sweden supplied materials and weapons to the Nazis", but I'd counter with "It was that or get Belgium'd", and it would just turn into a pissing match over the debate of weather or not it's morally corrupt to aid a vastly superior enemy to protect the lives of your citizens.

My major point was, Sweden doesn't send people off to war. Besides, the main issue in this topic is getting these people to understand that it's training, not actually joining the military.

Yeah, and back then there's at least a case to make about our neutrality, although we did perform crucial espionage on the Germans IIRC. Anyway, that neutrality is nowhere close to Sweden's stance today. We're pretty much America's hand puppet.
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scar the 1 posted...

omega cookie posted...

scar the 1 posted...

omega cookie posted...

What kind of garbage education do you have to have to not know that Sweden is a neutral country?

Missing the "air quotes" around "neutral" there, buddy.

Meh. You're right, but I'm talking about in terms of fighting wars. I mean, you could counter with "Sweden supplied materials and weapons to the Nazis", but I'd counter with "It was that or get Belgium'd", and it would just turn into a pissing match over the debate of weather or not it's morally corrupt to aid a vastly superior enemy to protect the lives of your citizens.

My major point was, Sweden doesn't send people off to war. Besides, the main issue in this topic is getting these people to understand that it's training, not actually joining the military.

Yeah, and back then there's at least a case to make about our neutrality, although we did perform crucial espionage on the Germans IIRC. Anyway, that neutrality is nowhere close to Sweden's stance today. We're pretty much America's hand puppet.

Oh wow, I didn't realize that you were from Sweden. Serious question, how does the Neutrality of Sweden differ between WWII and today? I'll be honest and say that most of my knowledge of that part of the world is centered around WWII and the early stages of the Cold War.

Like, I'll be honest and admit that I have no idea what you mean about being America's Hand Puppet now.
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omega cookie posted...

Oh wow, I didn't realize that you were from Sweden. Serious question, how does the Neutrality of Sweden differ between WWII and today? I'll be honest and say that most of my knowledge of that part of the world is centered around WWII and the early stages of the Cold War.

Like, I'll be honest and admit that I have no idea what you mean about being America's Hand Puppet now.

Well, we've been doing espionage on the Russians on behalf of the US for at least 10 years, probably more, we are hosting NATO forces, letting them have military exercises in our waters (which is a zone of interest for Russian military), and so on. Russia treats us like we're the enemy. The breach our air space every now and then, they mock us in their domestic propaganda. It's quite clear that we're actually not neutral.
And the neutrality during WW2, like we've both said, is actually a matter of discussion. Not to mention that Sweden's citizens back then weren't too happy about it, many went to Finland to help fight the Soviets.
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thrashmetal14 posted...

Also forcing people to join the military is f***ing stupid and authoritarian as f***

Most European countries, Canada, and Australia are very authoritarian.
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Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?
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BalanceLost posted...

6000 teenagers didn't fill out the mandatory military assessment online document this year and will now be fined a couple thousand kronor each.

How much notice was given on this?
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anyone curious about BalanceLost's military service...?

it's kind of significant to his point...
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Pastryarchy posted...

Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?

men.... woman voluntary.
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kingdrake2 posted...

Pastryarchy posted...

Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?

men.... woman voluntary.

How sexist.
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kingdrake2 posted...

Pastryarchy posted...

Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?

men.... woman voluntary.

Really? That sounds gender discriminating. I thought Sweden was a country all about not doing that....
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Pastryarchy posted...

Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?

The old system was compulsory for men and voluntary for women. The new system is gender neutral.


Crazyman93 posted...

BalanceLost posted...

6000 teenagers didn't fill out the mandatory military assessment online document this year and will now be fined a couple thousand kronor each.

How much notice was given on this?

I am not 100% sure but the assessment document info was sent out in March or April and the decision to go through with the fines was announced this week. That you would be fined if you didn't reply was written in the original send out.


NonDairyMiltank posted...

anyone curious about BalanceLost's military service...?

it's kind of significant to his point...

I graduated high school during the Reinfeldt administration and wasn't allowed to do it due to the cut backs on Defense (just like most in my class).
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TC has actually been in the military himself, right?
He's not shaming a bunch of youths for dodging enlistment when he never signed up himself, is he?
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scar the 1 posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

I guess I shouldn't be so quick to say that since taxes are basically the same thing but I do feel obligatory military service is stepping over the line.

Being in the military is a difficult life and being able to choose to do so demonstrates a certain commitment to accepting that life. Voluntary military service ensures only the individuals who firmly believe they are making the right choice are coming in (whether or not they decide after they begin if that's still true is another matter but at least that initial first step is coming from individuals who have drive).

Again, we already force people through 12 years of education. This "military service" is another year of education. Even when every man in the country was drafted to this thing, it was perfectly fine to proclaim that you wouldn't touch a weapon, you'd just get assigned other things. And you learn a lot of useful things.

I'd say the difference is that you're not an adult in those first 12 years of school. Once you're 18, some will see it as lead accepting to feel forced into something.
But like you said, you can choose to
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BalanceLost posted...

NonDairyMiltank posted...

anyone curious about BalanceLost's military service...?

it's kind of significant to his point...

I graduated high school during the Reinfeldt administration and wasn't allowed to do it due to the cut backs on Defense (just like most in my class).

so sign up now


whether it was your call or not back in high school doesn't matter
if you didn't serve, you got no cred for criticizing other people for not signing up

saying you conveniently "missed your chance" is a cop out
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So are Sweden's conservatives the opposite of America's conservatives?
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ClockworkHare posted...

TC has actually been in the military himself, right?
He's not shaming a bunch of youths for dodging enlistment when he never signed up himself, is he?

NonDairyMiltank posted...

BalanceLost posted...

NonDairyMiltank posted...

anyone curious about BalanceLost's military service...?

it's kind of significant to his point...

I graduated high school during the Reinfeldt administration and wasn't allowed to do it due to the cut backs on Defense (just like most in my class).

so sign up now


whether it was your call or not back in high school doesn't matter
if you didn't serve, you got no cred for criticizing other people for not signing up

saying you conveniently "missed your chance" is a cop out

This type of military training isn't something you can do whenever you want. Sure, I could apply for actual jobs with the Military now but that is very different from doing the post-high school training. I filled out the forms back in my day, which the article is about. If you actually read my post, you'll see I'm critical of the politicians responsible for the removal of the training.
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NonDairyMiltank posted...

BalanceLost posted...

NonDairyMiltank posted...

anyone curious about BalanceLost's military service...?

it's kind of significant to his point...

I graduated high school during the Reinfeldt administration and wasn't allowed to do it due to the cut backs on Defense (just like most in my class).

so sign up now


whether it was your call or not back in high school doesn't matter
if you didn't serve, you got no cred for criticizing other people for not signing up

saying you conveniently "missed your chance" is a cop out

The way the Swedes put it in this topic makes it sound like it's not really "serving", it's more like...grade 13 of school.
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stoltenberg11 posted...

So are Sweden's conservatives the opposite of America's conservatives?

They are a pretty weird party compared to other Conservative parties to be honest. Their core areas today are tax cuts, corporatism and royalism.



SGT_Conti posted...

The way the Swedes put it in this topic makes it sound like it's not really "serving", it's more like...grade 13 of school.

That is a good way of putting it. It is about learning more skills and being able to help in case of a crisis, not about being shipped off to Iraq like US military service.
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"Grade 13" sounds ominous...
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Cucked by their own government.
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emblem boy posted...

I'd say the difference is that you're not an adult in those first 12 years of school. Once you're 18, some will see it as lead accepting to feel forced into something.
But like you said, you can choose to

You're over 18 in the twelfth of those years.
ClockworkHare posted...

TC has actually been in the military himself, right?
He's not shaming a bunch of youths for dodging enlistment when he never signed up himself, is he?

He didn't dodge the assessment. He wasn't called to it after responding to the initial letter. I was the same. If I had been called to the assessment, and not shown up, that would have been criminal back then, too.
And going to the assessment isn't the same as signing up for the military. If you tell them that you're not interested, you won't have to do the training.
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ClockworkHare posted...

"Grade 13" sounds ominous...

Eh, not really. Grade 13 used to be a thing here in Ontario, Canada, then it became an optional "victory lap" for graduated students who either couldn't decide where to go yet or wanted some more credits before going to college or university.

We also have a mandatory Civics and Careers course in grade 10. Civics is about learning how the Canadian government functions, elections, and generally just encouraging civic engagement. Careers is how to budget, write resumes, how to do job interviews, that sort of thing. I see the kind of service TC talking about not too dissimilar to the idea of the C&C classes.
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BalanceLost posted...

Pastryarchy posted...

Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?

The old system was compulsory for men and voluntary for women. The new system is gender neutral.

Well that's progressive at least.

What does the training consist of? Strategic dodgeball scenarios?
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ClockworkHare posted...

BalanceLost posted...

Pastryarchy posted...

Is it compulsory service for both genders? Or just young men...?

The old system was compulsory for men and voluntary for women. The new system is gender neutral.

Well that's progressive at least.

What does the training consist of? Strategic dodgeball scenarios?

It's military training. It depends on where you're stationed. There's all kinds of things that you'd expect, like drills, shooting, marching, guard duty, first aid, disaster relief, etc, and a with bunch of theory going with it. You can get a lot of vocational skills there, as well, like driving heavy vehicles, cooking in large kitchens, setting up comm arrays, or what have you.
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