Poll of the Day > Dan Picard has a novel idea for fighting the opioid epidemic

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/06/28/a-council-members-solution-to-his-ohio-towns-overdose-problem-let-addicts-die/
Emergency services shouldn't rescue repeat overdosers once they hit their third strike. Stupid is as stupid does, and how much do you really want to waste on these self-destructive idiots who repeatedly decide to endanger themselves just for a high?

Simply put, he says his town can't afford all the money they're spending on overdose "victims" and if they don't cut back there, taxes have to be raised or other services will have to be cut.

The city has spent more than $2 million responding to overdoses, nearly 10 percent of what it collects annually in tax revenue, said Picard

An addict, he told the Journal-News, “obviously doesn’t care much about his life, but he’s expending a lot of resources, and we can’t afford it. … I want to send a message to the world that you don’t want to come to Middletown to overdose because someone might not come with Narcan and save your life. We need to put a fear about overdosing in Middletown.”

I agree with him, though his idea is surely doomed. A common defense is that opioid addicts are victims because they originally took the medication for legitimate pain issues w/ a doctor's prescription and then got addicted. But this article shoots down that false narrative: https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/a3z98b/big-pharma-didnt-cause-the-opioid-crisis-most-pain-patients-dont-get-addicted

"The simple story is that addiction happens all the time when people get opioids for pain and that simple story is clearly wrong," says Stefan Kertesz, associate professor of preventive medicine at the University of Alabama.

The research actually shows that people who developed new addictions in recent years were overwhelmingly not pain patients. Instead, they were mainly friends, relatives, and others to whom those pills were diverted—typically young people. Among the older patients, many who appeared to be newly addicted had actually relapsed or never recovered from prior addictions: some faked pain to get pills from well-meaning doctors; others got them from pill mills where shady physicians wrote prescriptions for cash.

I don't feel sorry for these people, they decided to ruin their own lives.
It's also downright insulting that we put people in jail for decades for marijuana when that's killed like...no one... yet for this insanely deadly batch of drugs we're now supposed to cater to the addicts of them with care and treatment only? (How deadly? This deadly: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/health/police-fentanyl-overdose-trnd/index.html )
I'm not saying we should just lock up all opioid addicts (and still think we need to STOP locking up marijuana users), I'm just saying...why not let the problem solve itself?

I didn't read it but I voted no because intuition says no
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streamofthesky posted...

modest proposal

Does it involve eating babies?

streamofthesky posted...

Emergency services shouldn't rescue repeat overdosers once they hit their third strike. Stupid is as stupid does, and how much do you really want to waste on these self-destructive idiots who repeatedly decide to endanger themselves just for a high?

Simply put, he says his town can't afford all the money they're spending on overdose "victims" and if they don't cut back there, taxes have to be raised or other services will have to be cut.

The city has spent more than $2 million responding to overdoses, nearly 10 percent of what it collects annually in tax revenue, said Picard

Which is an interesting but cruel argument.

streamofthesky posted...

I agree with him, though his idea is surely doomed. A common defense is that opioid addicts are victims because they originally took the medication for legitimate pain issues w/ a doctor's prescription and then got addicted. But this article shoots down that false narrative: https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/a3z98b/big-pharma-didnt-cause-the-opioid-crisis-most-pain-patients-dont-get-addicted

Given that it's Vice, I'm inclined to distrust it on principle. More importantly, I've known at least two people who got addicted to painkillers after an injury (one who stole his mom's pad and started writing fake scripts for himself). Granted, I also know a friend of a friend whose brother was addicted to pills (not sure if it was after an injury) and OD'd to death on them. So basically I'm holding out for a more reliable source to make these claims.
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I recommend fighting the British about opium, it worked to well last time!

Zeus posted...

Does it involve eating babies?

Glad to know at least one person caught the reference.

Zeus posted...

Which is an interesting but cruel argument.

Aww, I thought of all people on this board, you'd agree with him, given your stance on other recreational drugs that people voluntarily take.

Zeus posted...

Given that it's Vice, I'm inclined to distrust it on principle. More importantly, I've known at least two people who got addicted to painkillers after an injury (one who stole his mom's pad and started writing fake scripts for himself). Granted, I also know a friend of a friend whose brother was addicted to pills (not sure if it was after an injury) and OD'd to death on them. So basically I'm holding out for a more reliable source to make these claims.

Well, they quote studies from the NIH several times, so even if Vice is biased or has dumb reporters, the quoted numbers from those studies should be reputable.
Of course there's some people who will legitimately get addicted to their legally prescribed medications even if it's just a small minority. I don't think anyone's arguing that it's a good idea to remove programs to help addicts quit, especially if they really do fall into it innocently.
But if you're a repeat offender who refuses to get help and stop...so be it.

MrMelodramatic posted...

I didn't read it but I voted no because intuition says no

Everything wrong with the American voter encapsulated in a single sentence. :)

I think it should be a no strikes you're out system with illegally obtained opioids. Addicts are nothing but a drain on society. Why revive someone who's just gonna go out and snort or shoot again a week later? Save the resources and time of the paramedics for people who truly need the help.
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Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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just let them die on the first od
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VeeVees posted...

just let them die on the first od

I think there's enough instances of law-abiding people taking a legal prescription and becoming addicted, or people who accidentally come into contact with an opioid (seriously, read about that cop, that fentanyl is scary ass shit!) that there should be a strike or two allowed so truly innocent people get treated and have a chance to go into a program to resist any lingering urges to shoot up (again).
But if you just keep doing it and don't give a fuck? Why should we?

streamofthesky posted...

Glad to know at least one person caught the reference.

I'm pretty Swift like that.

streamofthesky posted...

Aww, I thought of all people on this board, you'd agree with him, given your stance on other recreational drugs that people voluntarily take.

You forget that I'm also against the death penalty (except in matters of state) and against suicide.

streamofthesky posted...

Well, they quote studies from the NIH several times, so even if Vice is biased or has dumb reporters, the quoted numbers from those studies should be reputable.

I don't see any references or links to the NIH. It has a TON of in-line links to other stories (the hallmark of unreliable, biased journalism). Sure, the NEJM seems to cited in a few places, but it seems to more tie back to earlier statements. And one of their own sources notes that a quarter of people addicted to opoids started from prescription which, while not the majority, is still a pretty high number.

Granted, I can see why the story is appealing. It pleads to our common sense and sensibilities with comments like:
Just think about it: you're a middle-aged woman with a bad back who uses a wheelchair. You've never even tried marijuana—let alone bought it on the street from a stranger. You aren't internet savvy, so you're not going to buy from the Darknet. And you aren't street savvy, so you're hardly likely to seek out the nearest bad neighborhood and start asking the people you usually cross the street to avoid if they can get you some "Um, do you still call it smack?" If you do work up the courage to try this, you are extremely likely to get ripped off or worse.

Which once again suggests that it's not affecting us decent folk, but instead low-life degenerates who we shouldn't worry about.

Otherwise it writes off some people getting addicted as being prone due to previous addictions while overlooking that said previous addictions could have been medicinal in nature as well.

streamofthesky posted...

VeeVees posted...

just let them die on the first od

I think there's enough instances of law-abiding people taking a legal prescription and becoming addicted, or people who accidentally come into contact with an opioid (seriously, read about that cop, that fentanyl is scary ass shit!) that there should be a strike or two allowed so truly innocent people get treated and have a chance to go into a program to resist any lingering urges to shoot up (again).
But if you just keep doing it and don't give a fuck? Why should we?

That or improve the process. Instead of writing them off, find better ways to get them clean and keep them clean.
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As of posting this I have not read this. I can still say that this person is either

A) From a shitty third world country
B) A Republican
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Zeus posted...

I'm pretty Swift like that.

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Anyway, this is pretty fucking stupid.

I've known several rehabilitated drug addicts and they were all really good people, they've been through a lot and a lot would give the shirts off their backs for you. They all have had family that loves them more than anything and worries about their addiction every day. Much better people than these old "virtue burdened" people by maybe 30-fold.
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JamieTheWhite posted...

As of posting this I have not read this. I can still say that this person is either

A) From a shitty third world country
B) A Republican

JamieTheWhite posted...

Anyway, this is pretty fucking stupid.

I've known several rehabilitated drug addicts and they were all really good people, they've been through a lot and a lot would give the shirts off their backs for you. They all have had family that loves them more than anything and worries about their addiction every day. Much better people than these old "virtue burdened" people by maybe 30-fold.

Jamie, I've got to hand it to you. When we're on the same side of an issue, you have an uncanny knack for almost making me want to change my stance. =p
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Zeus posted...

Jamie, I've got to hand it to you. When we're on the same side of an issue, you have an uncanny knack for almost making me want to change my stance. =p

You know what, I honestly apologize, generalizations are dumb.

Still, it's my state and I get a little heated hearing this.
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This won't solve anything. It'll just make people more reluctant to seek help at all. "Three strikes and you're dead." is not the best way to help people out. It just makes things worse. These are addicts, after all. If this is how we're going to treat people with serious mental illnesses, we're monsters.
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Nightwish posted...

I think it should be a no strikes you're out system with illegally obtained opioids.

What, are they gonna call in investigators and do research on the victim to find the cause of OD, then determine the legality of use, all before resuscitation? They'll be dead by then.

I would be down with a one-strike rule. It should only take one near death experience to realize there's a problem, and use that second chance to seek help. Hell, force it on them by law if necessary, straight from the hospital into rehab. If they can't be fixed or refuse the help should it be optional, then there's no point in a third chance, let alone a fourth chance that three strikes would grant. That's far too generous for habitual dregs.
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Addicts are a disease on society. Let them all die for all I care.

We've gotten so soft over the past 100 years. We're never going to evolve if we continue to help people that wouldn't have survived without a handout.

Yes this includes the elderly, poor, disabled, and the people that choose to waste their lives because they know someone will help them.
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This is why we need to ditch opioids and narcotic pain killers entirely and do some serious research into CBD compounds.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

This is why we need to ditch opioids and narcotic pain killers entirely and do some serious research into CBD compounds.

Yeah a ban on those painkillers will reduce the addiction rate. We need a real war on drugs (not this flop we call a "War on Drugs" and instead of cannabis, replace it with opioids. Who thought it was a good idea to bring those to the market?
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Hop103 posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

This is why we need to ditch opioids and narcotic pain killers entirely and do some serious research into CBD compounds.

Yeah a ban on those painkillers will reduce the addiction rate. We need a real war on drugs (not this flop we call a "War on Drugs" and instead of cannabis, replace it with opioids. Who thought it was a good idea to bring those to the market?

I'm willing to concede that we're probably a long way off from finding a better surgical pain killers than certain opiates, but for pain management, opiates are just too easy to get addicted to. There's literally no downside to CBD edibles.
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This is one of those stories where you know the guy will totally change is story when he finds out he has a kid on drugs.

It'll never happen. Maybe instead they could haul people off and stick them cold turkey in jail until they get over it.

I have OCD and hoarding disorders, I know how the pull of addiction feels, but the people who aren't doing anything to try to get help and recover don't deserve the time and effort. Use those resources to help people who DO want to improve their lives.
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