Current Events > Is Universal Basic Income a good idea?

(+) Yeah! (+)

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maybe in the future, not now

universal slavery is better though
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Where will the money come from?
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Nukleen posted...

Where will the money come from?

The rich 1% have more money then everyone else in the world combined
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What makes someone rich?
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it's a good idea for lazy millennials who don't want to work
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Tbh it's the only solution for the future when automation begins replacing more and more jobs and we have massive unemployment.

Watch this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
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Not with the way things currently are, but I think it could work with an economy geared towards it. Where all other benefits are rolled into the UBI, when automation is more widespread, probably with a different tax system, etc.

It's absolute trash. Earn money if you want money. This handout generation is fucking bullshit. Universal basic income is the stupidest fucking idea in the last 10 years, and that was a huge hurdle to leap.
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same as minimum wage increases: UBI is slightly better, but it's still missing the point
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when automation gets too much, and it will happen eventually, I see no other choice than global communism
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CmndrHurricane posted...

when automation gets too much, and it will happen eventually, I see no other choice than global communism

This is the reality of the world. We think about the elite today being billionaires right? What if someone invents a bot that replaces every doctor in the world? The person or company that owns that bot will make trillions of dollars.
This is the type of stuff that can literally change the entire economy of the entire world within months.

And it's not just doctors. What if robots get so advanced that they replace lawyers completely?

Or what if someone invents a bot that can effectively teach Math to all age groups?

It doesn't take long to understand how much money could be made off of any one of these types of bots that are conceivably possible within the next 20 years or so.
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I think the impact on people's willingness to work is being overstated personally. Yeah, it's easy to see how people would be tempted to give up work, but equally, with the safety net there, they might be more able to take risks (e.g. set up a business), to use some of their UBI to help fund those risks, to enter employment without worrying about losing their safety net, etc.

Really though, if people people didn't *need* to work (and that is a big if), would that really be a bad thing? Of course, nothing would be stopping them from working, and they'd still need something to do. With the potential benefits with regard to working above, they would still work I think. They just wouldn't need to do it to live from day to day. They could be a bit more picky about jobs, perhaps doing jobs with more "value" or taking up further education to be able to do these jobs.

Not to mention that many would want more than the bare minimum that UBI would give them and would work to top it up.

Anyway, I think the case for it is much more complex than it seems. I don't think it can just be dismissed out of hand or, equally, embraced as some sort of silver bullet, but should definitely be considered and studied.

luigi13579 posted...

Not to mention that many would want more than the bare minimum that UBI would give them and would work to top it up.

This was literally the argument for minimum wage, though. Now we gotta pay burger flippers enough money to afford a furnished two-bedroom apartment, iPhone, cable, internet, health insurance, new car, car insurance, and groceries for a month​.

Nobody has any right to someone else's property.
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It's a good idea when paired with increasing automation, and it'll probably become necessary because of it. There are already more people than available jobs, so unless there's a future legal limit on working hours, half the world will be rich and the other half will starve.

Automation has the potential to be great if implemented properly but, judging by the world's current governments, it's going to be a catastrophe.

Yes. Finding a job right now is ****ing ridiculous.

>3 Years experience minimum
>Bachelors degree minimum
>Willing to work weekends, holidays
>$10.00 an hour


Like are you actually ****ing me. I have been looking at as many jobs as I can just to get a house. Getting a job that pays in the double digits hourly when I don't have 5 years experience has been impossible. I don't care what, but something needs to change.

Eventually it will become a necessity. Like people have said even skilled labor one day will be replaceable with a more effective computer or robot. Business owners look for more effective ways and alot of time that's automation. Unskilled workers will be replaced by machines sooner then skilled but there will be a point where not enough jobs are around and the government will be forced to step in.
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I'd like it to exist, but i'm not sure if its financially viable or not. The Negative Income tax seem a lot more workable.
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Milkman5 posted...

maybe in the future, not now

Actually, it should be the other way around.

With so much wealth concentrated in the top percentile of the population, it's nearly impossible for mid and small sized businesses to pay a decent wage and to employ more workers.

The only way to reduce wealth inequality right now is to increase taxes on the superlatively wealthy and do one or more of the following: start mass producing government jobs/ some sort of job training program, start a universal basic income program, or help mid/small size businesses with tax breaks if they expand and employ more people at decent wages.
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darkjedilink posted...

luigi13579 posted...

Not to mention that many would want more than the bare minimum that UBI would give them and would work to top it up.

This was literally the argument for minimum wage, though. Now we gotta pay burger flippers enough money to afford a furnished two-bedroom apartment, iPhone, cable, internet, health insurance, new car, car insurance, and groceries for a month​.

Nobody has any right to someone else's property.

Yeah, that is a little excessive. The only things people should be entitled to are food, healthcare, and a roof over their head. And maybe cleaning supplies. And clothes. Anything more than that and people lose a huge incentive to work, which would likely lead to a huge epidemic of drug addicts/dealers.
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Skyscraper101 posted...

Yes. Finding a job right now is ****ing ridiculous.

>3 Years experience minimum
>Bachelors degree minimum
>Willing to work weekends, holidays
>$10.00 an hour


Like are you actually ****ing me. I have been looking at as many jobs as I can just to get a house. Getting a job that pays in the double digits hourly when I don't have 5 years experience has been impossible. I don't care what, but something needs to change.

My job started at $13.50/hr, 9-6pm Mon - Fri, 7 paid holidays a year, 2 weeks PTO, and free health insurance. All for a diploma and no related experience necessary.

Up to $17/hr with 4 weeks PTO a year now.

I forget how lucky I am to work here all the time. Thanks for the reminder.
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We're not there yet on technology but I'm for it if we first implement border security and population control.
You really can't have your cake and eat it too in these issues.
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Since it would bankrupt the government, no.
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Skyscraper101 posted...

Yes. Finding a job right now is ****ing ridiculous.

>3 Years experience minimum
>Bachelors degree minimum
>Willing to work weekends, holidays
>$10.00 an hour


Like are you actually ****ing me. I have been looking at as many jobs as I can just to get a house. Getting a job that pays in the double digits hourly when I don't have 5 years experience has been impossible. I don't care what, but something needs to change.

Did you go to college or university?
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No. It will never work.

Mr Hangman posted...

Why fuss around with social security, medicare/medicaid, unemployment, minimum wage, food stamps, etc. when you can just do this?

Because we'll 100% still have to keep these implemented since unemployed people mooching off the governemnt likely won't know how to ration out their money for these needs anyway and will start whining again. And a UBI wouldn't be enough for Medicare/caid anyawy.
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Hmm
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I haven't seen enough concrete research on it (mostly just emotional appeals in either direction), so I don't have a strong opinion.
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The rich will flee the country from the taxes required. It's idiotic.

Universal Basic Income = providing easier access to large dangerous dogs for rednecks
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Up
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It really isn't.
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It will be literally necessary in the coming years unless you want a complete collapse of society.
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Rexdragon125 posted...

The rich will flee the country from the taxes required. It's idiotic.

Let them... Id like a chance to start my own business without those rich ****ers competing with me.
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It does not seem financially feasible.
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angermngment101 posted...

Rexdragon125 posted...

The rich will flee the country from the taxes required. It's idiotic.

Let them... Id like a chance to start my own business without those rich ****ers competing with me.

Lol
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Bump
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Inflation would go up, so gov't would increase UBI, increasing inflation, so gov't would increase UBI, increasing inflation, so gov't would increase UBI, increasing inflation, so gov't would increase UBI, increasing inflation, so gov't would increase UBI, increasing inflation...

darkjedilink posted...

luigi13579 posted...

Not to mention that many would want more than the bare minimum that UBI would give them and would work to top it up.

This was literally the argument for minimum wage, though. Now we gotta pay burger flippers enough money to afford a furnished two-bedroom apartment, iPhone, cable, internet, health insurance, new car, car insurance, and groceries for a month.

Nobody has any right to someone else's property.

This is horribly incorrect. The argument for the increase in minimum wage is due to working full time (i.e. 40 hours a week) and still not being able to have financial stability due to the increasing costs of living. This is not the same thing as having UBI for simply living and wanting to look for more money to afford luxuries via finding a job.


Mr Hangman posted...

Why fuss around with social security, medicare/medicaid, unemployment, minimum wage, food stamps, etc. when you can just do this? Let people figure out for themselves how the money will best help them. It provides a massive benefit in the jobs market in that lower income workers no longer have to negotiate out of a place of desperation.

Because lawmakers let their pride get in the way and believe people who make the bare minimum don't know how to use money properly and so they come up with convoluted schemes to help people out. It's funny how there have been multiple reports of research that always boil down to the simplest solution, from getting someone off the streets to helping someone out of poverty to lowering crime in neighborhoods and increasing HS graduation rates, is to simply give them money.
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