Board 8 > Scarlet Ranks 225 User-Nominated Super-Villains: Part II

(+) Yeah! (+)

They really just don't talk about it anymore. That's their answer.
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Is Transformers also ambiguously canon, or is that definitely non-canon?
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Definitely non-canon.
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What about Amalgam Comics? I know that was canon to DC once, but I don't know if it still is.
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Amalgam is more likely canon to Marvel. JLA/Avengers is for sure canon to DC.
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Thanks.

It's hard to keep track of all of the reboots DC goes through.
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Nominate: Bizarnage
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Anagram posted...

Thanks.

It's hard to keep track of all of the reboots DC goes through.

I mean, in the case of JLA/Avengers, that's not even something most hardcore fans realize. JLA/Avengers was snuck into continuity by Kurt Busiek, which means the following:

Hawkeye is a canonical member of the JLA
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Kind of hard to reconcile Death as an old friend and Death as the final enemy when the former is supposed to be THE death

I prefer something like Azrael of Discworld as THE Death personally, somebody neutral so it's not as weird that it's myriad aspects can be polar opposites

I dunno though, something about Nekron... lacks something as that aspect of Death. Not sure what. Maybe I just hated his Black Lantern design
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#132 - Shuma-Gorath Nominated by: BetrayedTangy
First Appearance: Marvel Premiere #5 (Nov. 1972)
Created by: Robert E. Howard, Steve Englehart, Frank Brunner

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 6/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

Look at Shuma-Gorath. Now look at Starro. Now look at Shuma-Gorath. Now look at your man. This is what your man could be if he used Old Spice.



Next!
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#131 - Legion (David Haller) Nominated by: Johnbobb
First Appearance: New Mutants #25 (Mar. 1985)
Created by: Chris Claremont, Bill Sienkiewicz

Fundamentals: 7/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

I can't really write up a character who never existed, and that is apparently Legion in a nutshell now. He erased himself from existence in Avengers vs. X-Men. So there's that.

Legion's potential has always been astronomical, but his actual portrayal in X-Men comics has been very mundane. He needs a very strong writer pushing him; this sadly is hardly ever the case. Unlike Madrox, who turns his multiple personalities into a psychological thriller in comics, Legion is more of a big sledgehammer with multiple personalities. Writers bludgeon readers with the changes and transitions rather than craft a tale with some nuance. Far be it from me to complain about an X-character's usage, but Legion also flits back and forth often between good and evil, and oftentimes this change is not well-explained. Did Legion change personalities? Probably; but the readers are often given alternate reasons for changes, so what should be the variable in each situation (a new personality) is coupled with external influences and made to look bizarre and random. This isn't "unpredictability" but rather "bad writing ability". Legion is the kind of character who you have to very carefully write. Moon Knight is a great example of MPD done right.

Still, Legion has his moments. At his origin, Claremont knew he had something special, and Legion felt like a slasher villain with actual heft rather than a supervillain. He has been presented from time to time as a potentially very terrifying character, with warped body imagery that can be grotesque and terrifying. But too often he feels like a capes and cowls version of crazy. Unlike the show that has just debuted, Legion is not often given the spotlight he needs to develop and be fleshed out. When he is, you'll get a phenomenal show like FX has produced. Until that time... well. You see what we got. A flip-flopping quasi-villain who changes in tone, intent and concept with each writer.
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No write-ups for Sunday or Monday (days off).
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Oh hey this is back.

Nekron was fantastic in Blackest Night. I've ignored everything else he's shown up in because it just seemed dumb bringing him back. Seems like that was the correct choice!
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Murphiroth posted...

Nekron was fantastic in Blackest Night. I've ignored everything else he's shown up in because it just seemed dumb bringing him back. Seems like that was the correct choice!

Nothing since has really had him in a super-prominent role. You only think about it if you are an uber comics nerd like me.
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#130 - King Hyperion (Mark Milton) Nominated by: Mega Mana
First Appearance: Exiles #38 (Feb. 2004)
Created by: Chuck Austen and Jim Califiore

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 6/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

Squadron Supreme was a suprisingly insightful look at the Justice League from an outsider's perspective. Supreme updated that conceit for a more modern age. Exiles borrowed a little from both and pumped out a fun but very skin-deep assessment of the same situation.

When you deconstruct Superman and explore the extreme conditions required to turn him evil, you have to remember that Superman is by his very nature a character that can't go bad. He could be at odds with the general sentiment of the world; hell, they may see him as a villain. But we should always see him as a man with unflinchingly rigid principals. Hyperion is first presented as misguided but ultimately a decent person who falls into the trap of getting mired in politics. But as writer after writer pervert the original concept, you end up with "Hyperion can go power mad and murder entire planets."

That's what we get in Exiles.

If you can ignore the Superman parallels that are supposed to exist in this storyline (Lord knows the writers of Exiles did), it's a fun story. He's a god gone wild, and it's up to the ragtag team cobbled together through fate and insects to stop him. But try not to think too hard about it.
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#129 - Rhino (Aleksei Sytsevich) Nominated by: Great_Paul
First Appearance: Amazing Spider-Man #41 (Oct. 1966)
Created by: Stan Lee and John Romita Sr.

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 6/10
Scarlet Factor: 6/10

I wish the Rhino was a DC character. He is exactly what is missing from the Flash's Rogues. In fact, the Spider-Rogues and the Flash Rogues compliment each other so wonderfully. Just merge the two franchises.

Anyways, Rhino isn't particularly special on the surface. The design hasn't aged well, and the subsequent retoolings are never able to stick. But the big dumb oaf concept is a sound one, a design that has existed in fiction for centuries. What I truly like about Rhino is that there is a soft interior that can be exploited in storytelling. Rhino is a lot like the nicer Solomon Grundy. Conditioning and upbringing are what make him who he is. When I look at revisions like the terrible Amazing Spider-Man 2, I have to shake my head. Rhino isn't Paul Giamatti. He's a teddy bear that's been riled up by a cruel world.

I like to point people to my favorite Spider-Man story, Flowers for Rhino. This is a rare Peter Milligan foray into the world of the Webhead, and it demonstrates just how much compassion you can have for the ol' galoot. Rhino is a character for which I can root. He may not have the personality depth of a Loki or a the panache of a Riddler, but he's a great little character in his own right, and when he's given the chance to shine, it's wonderful.
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Would the Wall rank higher or lower than Rhino?
http://ozbot.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4e3753ef0133f49f64df970b-450wi
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Obviously lower.
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#128 - Ares (Marvel) Nominated by: Murphiroth
First Appearance: Thor #129 (Jun. 1966)
Created by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 6/10

Let's keep this one short: I have never really developed an affinity or dislike for Ares. His design is great and generally I'm a sucker for Greek mythology, but I have to admit that Marvel's take on Greek mythology is kind of boring and very shallow. I enjoy the Wonder Woman depth of it much more.

Ares came in, starred in a few stories, but he was generally playing second banana to whoever was the Bendis flavor of the week. Then he left in a pretty pitiful way and I've never cared since. He wasn't a villain always, but he wasn't much of a hero either.

Still, I like Greek mythology.
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#127 - Abra Kadabra Nominated by: davidponte
First Appearance: Flash #128 (May 1962)
Created by: John Broome and Carmine Infantino

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 6/10

In the past, had you asked me my opinion on the Kadabrous One, I would likely have given you a lukewarm response. What has changed recently is in my rereading of Flashpoint. I've come to realize the versatility that Abra Kadabra provides to the DC Universe. By playing up a magical gimmick but operating within the boundaries of technology (although it's hard sci-fi future tech), Abra Kadabra can be played up in Legion of Super-Heroes, Justice League Dark, or even Superman. There's really no boundary to where Kadabra can travel in the DCU. What that means, of course, is that he's a perfect candidate to be a Flash villain.

I used to think that Abra Kadabra was a very overused part of the otherwise fantastic Mark Waid run, and while I don't see that as true any longer, I still think it colors my perception of the character. He certainly never got the Johns' revamp treatment as did so many other Rogues, and I believe that is simply because there are other Rogues who translate to the 21st century much easier. Captain Cold is a simple concept with great potential for depth. The further we advance technologically, the less enticing Abra Kadabra is as a villain.

The blend of magic and science is certainly the highlight of Kadabra, but more importantly to writers, there is a very unique personality with which to play. Kadabra is the height of the arrogance borne out of magical power mixed with the pinnacle of foolishness as he is blinded by technology he ultimately takes for granted. You really can't create a more Icarian character if you tried. What you need, however, is a guy to write the hell out of Kadabra. Throw him into a Suicide Squad setting and watch him interact with those he deems beneath him. That's where the money is at.
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#126 - Inque Nominated by: bullhogderbaxer
First Appearance: "Black Out" (Sep. 1999)
Created by: Robert Goodman

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 6/10

Another short write-up here. Since Inque has only about 4 appearances in comics, you're gonna get about 4 sentences on her.

I love the design of Inque, powers and all. What I don't love is characters that play as monsters of the week when they should be more. Batman Beyond had a rough time of making threats feel credible; I think the looming shadow of traditional Batman villains tended to overshadow the newbies. However, Inque isn't a comic villain really and you deserve no points for her.
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I wonder how doctor strange would react to abra kadabra.
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#125 - Garfield Lynns Nominated by: BetrayedTangy
First Appearance: Detective Comics #184 (Jun. 1952)
Created by: France Herron and Dick Sprang

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 6/10

Some men just want to see the world burn. That applies to DC's resident firebug Firefly (although DC has another firebug named Firebug, but he's more of a firefly). Firefly is a fantastic C-Lister that fits so well into the Batman mythos. Usually he serves as a secondary antagonist in a story, and the reasoning is quite simple. Starting a fire is generally not a crime for which Batman will come after you; but any Mr. Freeze story or Riddler story or Two-Face story becomes twice as deadly if you just start fires during it. And that works for me.

Firefly's personality has been pretty consistently maintained over the years. Sometimes he's been on a hot streak and other times his gimmick has left him burned, but he tends to be the sort of utility player that Batman writers need. Sourcing that elemental flavor is tough to do in a Gotham atmosphere - most of the GC players are street level, with gimmicks that only effect the flavor of the crime rather than a power set. Catwoman isn't a water goddess and Riddler isn't a tornado-powered wind deity. So having Fireflies and Clayfaces is very necessary to round out the Batman corner of the DC Universe.

Is Firefly great? No. Is he good? Yes.
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#124 - Inertia Nominated by: Corrik
First Appearance: Impulse #50 (Jul. 1999)
Created by: Todd DeZago and Ethan Van Sciver

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 4/10
Scarlet Factor: 7/10

Reverse Flashes are everywhere.
Jay Garrick had the Rival.
Barry Allen had Professor Zoom.
Wally West had Zoom.
Hell, Johnny Quick had freaking Joanie Swift.

Inertia was the answer to the question "How do we give Impulse a Reverse Flash?" Bart Allen's opposite was an equally impetuous youth with a harder, more violent edge. Perhaps my favorite aspect of Inertia was the fact that, due to Speed Force voodoo, Bart and Inertia couldn't match up consistently as time went on. Unlike Zoom or Reverse-Flash, Bart got a clear advantage over his opponent, and Inertia couldn't deal with it. Ultimately, adult Bart had a position that commanded respect - he was THE Flash - while Inertia was stuck as a kid still. Perhaps this sort-of sibling rivalry is what led to Inertia inadvertently kicking off the death of Bart Allen. All of the shenanigans involved with that, however, left Inertia without his doppelganger, and he really languished without Bart. Which makes it quite ironic that when Bart finally returned, Inertia had been left frozen in time and space, incapable of ever returning. Inertia and Impulse always had bad timing.

I hope that at some point, we see the Kid Zoom return we deserve; after all, Bart seems to be perpetually stuck as Kid Flash now that we have 2 Wallys, a Barry, a handful of Reverse-Flashes and a guy who may or may not be Jay Garrick. Of course, the odds of that happening are pretty slim.
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#123 - Shredder Nominated by: Gundammike
First Appearance: Eastman and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 (May 1984)
Created by: Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird

Fundamentals: 8/10
Track Record: 7/10
Scarlet Factor: 3/10


I recognize the impact Shredder has had on the comics and pop culture, but I find him skin deep and irritating. He caters to a demographic that is not me. So I have very little to say about the character. And because of that, I will take the advice of someone who posted in the last thread and not write him up.
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#122 - Krona Nominated by: Murphiroth
First Appearance: Green Lantern #40 (Oct. 1965)
Created by: John Broome and Gil Kane

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 9/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

Krona - the man who gazed into the abyss when the abyss gazed back - is a pain the ass. As a character, I've never understood how Krona has transformed from the height of scientific arrogance to a mutant dwarf power-hungry demigod. There was so much to like about the original Krona origin! When I think of the fantastic framework surrounding Krona during Crisis on Infinite Earths and compare him to the Blueberry Kenny Baker we got from Johns decades later, I could just spit.

Krona was meant to be the universe's ultimate example of how technology can blind those who rely upon it. The man sought the origins of the universe, and in a fantastic allegorical origin story, disobeyed the conventions of his species to view the birth of existence. Of course, what he saw would have dire consequences, as the birth of the universe was also the source of the Anti-Monitor's grand final victory against a multiverse. Since then, Krona has become more and more of a warped goblin-like entity, bent on controlling random Lantern Corps. Kurt Busiek also utilized him as one of the main villains in JLA/Avengers, a phenomenal story I highly recommend to anyone.

Of course, despite having an inventory of fantastic tales under his belt, the character himself is extremely disinteresting. I don't understand why people continue to force this monstrous Quasimodo version of the character upon us when a more mature, subtle version of the character has existed for years.
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If he has so many bad uses, why is his track record 9?
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Because the Track Record is based mostly on the number of great stories in which the character appears, and Krona has many. My opinion that the changes have been terrible go into my personal opinion, or Scarlet Factor.
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What if a character has one or two really great appearances and otherwise doesn't appear at all?
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Then they can probably net a 7. Quantity isn't better than quality.
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#121 - Brainiac (Vril Dox) Nominated by: Wickle
First Appearance: Action Comics #242 (Jul. 1958)
Created by: Otto Binder and Al Plastino

Fundamentals: 7/10
Track Record: 7/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

Probably best known for wanting a decent pair of pants, Brainiac is the meant to be the pinnacle of intelligence in the DC Universe. A mind unparalleled in any way, Vril Dox uses his 12th-level intellect to... put cities in bottles? Okay. If that's your hobby, have fun with that. I actually think the Auctioneer is a much more interesting twist on this concept. At least he makes some money off of his off-time pursuits. Anyways, Brainiac is meant to be the wits-matcher for Superman. Did you realize that Superman has super-intelligence? He does. That's an actual power. Of course, it's generally harder for normal intelligence writers to create the illusion of super-intelligence, so you just get random pieces of technological nonsense that sound brilliant if they actually existed. But generally they are physically impossible and it makes us all stupider for even having to ponder their fabricated existence.

As you can see, I think Brainiac is a villain that makes us dumber. For me, intelligence in comics should be borne out of humanity and not otherworldly cop outs. Kryptonian computers be damned. Brainiac is a boring and unrelatable character. The reason good villains are good is simple: you can almost see where they're coming from. "It's all true, from a certain point of view," as Obi-Wan would tell us.

Brainiac is a threat for threat's sake. So many Brainiac stories are competently written, and as a villain he is quite versatile in usage. But I don't really LIKE the famous and popular stories. And that's the problem with Vril Dox Part 1.
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I think my favorite part of Brainiac is that he was only the second smartest guy on the Legion of Doom.
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Behind Toyman, who can make pants out of toys.
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#120 - Gorilla Grodd Nominated by: Johnbobb
First Appearance: Flash #106 (May 1959)
Created by: John Broome and Carmine Infantino

Fundamentals: 7/10
Track Record: 7/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10


I hate monkeys.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I hate monkeys.

Agreed
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Nuff said, right?
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I bet I know what scarlet's least favorite DC city is, then.
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Anagram posted...

I bet I know what scarlet's least favorite DC city is, then.

If you guessed Coast City, you're right.
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Aw, what do you have against Coast City?
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Why not Gorilla City?
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scarletspeed7 posted...

#123 - Shredder

Yay, Shredder was not eviscerated like the other TMNT vill--

scarletspeed7 posted...

So I have very little to say about the character. And because of that, I will take the advice of someone who posted in the last thread and not write him up.

Awww
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BetrayedTangy posted...

Aw, what do you have against Coast City?

Because dead should stay dead sometimes. It's easily the most generic and boring city in all of DC. What makes it stand out? Because once every 7 months, the Green Lantern may visit his niece there. Fuck that generic-ass place.

Anagram posted...

Why not Gorilla City?

Because at least Gorilla City has the decency to be hidden from the rest of humanity. I don't have anything against the intelligent gorillas. They are equal to us. I just want them to remain separate. Separate but equal.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Because at least Gorilla City has the decency to be hidden from the rest of humanity. I don't have anything against the intelligent gorillas. They are equal to us. I just want them to remain separate. Separate but equal.

Thank you, BehindtheCurve.
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Anagram posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Because at least Gorilla City has the decency to be hidden from the rest of humanity. I don't have anything against the intelligent gorillas. They are equal to us. I just want them to remain separate. Separate but equal.

Thank you, BehindtheCurve.

Hey, I thought it was a funny joke.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Anagram posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Because at least Gorilla City has the decency to be hidden from the rest of humanity. I don't have anything against the intelligent gorillas. They are equal to us. I just want them to remain separate. Separate but equal.

Thank you, BehindtheCurve.

Hey, I thought it was a funny joke.

So did I!
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#119 - Prince Robot IV Nominated by: trdl
First Appearance: Saga #1 (Mar. 2012)
Created by: Brian K. Vaughan and Fiona Staples

Fundamentals: 7/10
Track Record: 6/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

He’s an arrogant, repulsive, murderous elitist. However, his quest for his son is a noble one, and as he puts more distance in between himself and his kingdom, we get to see a side of him that is almost likable. Almost.

Prince Robot is, like most Saga characters, really engrossing when I'm reading Saga. The weird thing about Saga is that it doesn't stick with me. The difference between a good villain and a great villain for me is that a villain lingers with you past the page. A great example is the Smiler in Transmetropolitan (for an example of someone who wasn't nominated). I never forget that guy's haunting visage. I never forget the despicable acts he authorized. Prince Robot, as terrible as he is (in a good way), doesn't stay with me. But part of that is due to the nature of Saga. Everything is a bit ridiculous (in a good way), and I get a little inured by the title. The same problem exists in Preacher. At some point, the gratuity doesn't mean anything. Still, I'm arguing the difference of good and great, and that's the equivalent of splitting hairs.

Prince Robot is a solid character. Funny, terrifying, monstrous, and likable. What more could you want?
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oh hey its the guy from FLCL
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#117 - Ultra-Humanite Nominated by: SgtSphynx
First Appearance: Action Comics #13 (Jun. 1939)
Created by: Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster

Fundamentals: 7/10
Track Record: 6/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

Big Monkey Man Part 2! But this time, we've got a human brain inside of the monkey, so I'm letting it slide. Look how racist I am.

Seriously though, there are aspects of Ultra-Humanite I really like. The chess-like machinations, the long con, the ability to be anyone at anytime... Ultra-Humanite is a master of subterfuge. The problem with Ultra-Humanite, however, is that writers can't escape the temptation to use him in a physical fight. That's not the right usage for this character at all. Sure, he mostly sits inside the body of a genetically engineered gorilla so he can protect himself from metahuman assault, but that's a defensive measure. Discovering the Ultra-Humanite's plots and finding him should be the bulk of an Ultra-Humanite story. In a weird way, he belongs in a Batman story. There's detective work necessary for a good Ultra-Humanite story.

Another great way to use the big white ape is demonstrated in JSA: Stealing Thunder. Ultra-Humanite is utilized exceptionally well here. He wins. The story is all about walking the victory back and demonstrating just how tough an entrenched and prepared Ultra-Humanite actually is. It requires ingenuity, innovation, and oftentimes teamwork between characters who normally wouldn't be seen together. Unfortunately, that's not always what we get. But on point, the Ultra-Humanite is an excellent character.

Too bad he's a monkey.
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How many times did Abra show up in Waid's run? Like 5 or 6 probably?

Pretty confident he was Waid's most used villain, anyway.
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What did you think of Brainiac's expanded role in Convergence? Even though it was kind of made obsolete by Rebirth, I thought it was pretty neat. I guess not really Convergence itself, but Future's End.

Also tag
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